August 2018 - Beautiful Ruins

[Peggy]

One of the group reads for August is Beautiful Ruins by Jess Walter. Please discuss the book in this thread.

Silver will be leading the discussion.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have completed the book before or during August 2018.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

[Peggy]

I opened the thread a little early as I won't be online tomorrow (and it's the 1st already somewhere in the world!). Or at least not from my laptop.

I have this on my wishlist but don't own it, so I won't be joining. I did just discover that Jess Walter is a man. For some reason I always thought it was written by a woman!

[Kristie, Moderator]

I read this a few years ago. I just picked up a copy from the library so I can re-read (or maybe skim through) and discuss. I look forward to the discussion. I remember finding this book enjoyable.

[Janice, Moderator]

I picked up the book from the library the other day. I will start it as soon as I finish the ebook I'm currently reading.

[Casceil]

I read this book a few years ago and loved it. I plan to reread it with this discussion.

[Janice, Moderator]

That's a great endorsement of the book Casceil. I'm looking forward to your comments.

[Silver]

Just started reading and to start with I have to say the writing is truly beautiful. The book pulled me in right away. I love the author’s descriptions. He paints a vivid picture that draws the reader in. There is a nice blend of solemnity and humur in the opening.

Chapter 1

(view spoiler)[ There are a lot of references to death within this chapter from the chapter title itself “The Dying Actress” to the town which is in a state of decay and Pasquale being brought by his dead father and dying mother. Though Pasquale represents the posibility of new hope/life, the future. This could be seen as a mark of the old ways dying off to makecway for a new generation which brings changing times.

I am quite i terested to learn more about the mysterious actress Dee Moray and why she was sent to such an isolated place as if to keep her hidden. I wonder at the relevance of this actress whom we know is dying and as at this point an unknown sickness being sent to town whose name means “shame” and if there is some scandal surrounding her illness.

While Porto Vergona is a fictional place the author’s descriptions place it around the Genoa area and Dee is allegedly filiming in Rome. It is about a five hour drive between Genoa and Rome so I questioned why she would be sent so far from the film site. (hide spoiler)]

[Clive]

I completely agree about the beautiful writing. A well written turn of phrase or simile will always grab my attention and I absolutely loved the description of the English language in the first chapter...'the senseless brutality of its conjugations; it was unpredictable, like a cross-bred dog.'

I'm also enjoying the sporadic use of untranslated Italian. I taught myself the language a few years ago (to a conversational level) and it's always nice to find chances to use it.

[Silver]

Ch. 2

I loved the poignant truth within this chapter and the author’s cynical sense of humur. He really does know how to turn a phrase.

(view spoiler)[ The sad thing is that however ridiculous some of the pitches were they were painfully believable. Some of them were riffs on shows the frighteningly really do exisit.

I wonder after all these years what brought Pasquale to Holloywood looking for Dee Moray. I am quite intrigued and would love to see how the past and present cone together. Pasquale could be Claire’s saving grace. I can picture her making a movie of Pasquale’s life<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Sandra, Moderator]

I'm glad to see everyone seems to be enjoying this one. I seconded the nomination and voted for it, but when I finally tried to borrow the ebook from my library, I got a message that they do not own it anymore... I will try to find another way before the month ends.

[Silver]

Sandra wrote: "I'm glad to see everyone seems to be enjoying this one. I seconded the nomination and voted for it, but when I finally tried to borrow the ebook from my library, I got a message that they do not ow..."

Sorry to hear that. That sucks! Hopefully you will find another copy.

[Sandra, Moderator]

Thank you, Silver. The library has also de audio book, I realized. It is borrowed right now but I already requested it

[Clive]

I'm really racing through this book but given we're still early in the month I'll hold off on commenting too much until others are working through it too.

I really like the elements of humour sprinkled throughout especially when the early themes of the book seem to be loneliness and isolation. The contrast of the two seems to work very well (and reflect day to day life I suppose).

My favourite example of the humour so far has been the interaction between Dee and Aunt Valeria in chapter three. The coarseness of the language used (unintelligibly) by the aunt and the subsequent reaction had me in stitches.

[Casceil]

Clive, that interaction was very funny, especially when the aunt said terrible things to Dee and Dee thought she was being sympathetic and thanked her. I've read about the first half of the book now. This is a reread, so I have been been reticent to comment lest I give away too much.

[Silver]

Ch. 3

(view spoiler)[I suspected that Dee may be pregnant. I am glad the doctor questioned why Dee was sent to Porto Vergona.

I wonder if Ernest Hemmingway helped inspire Alvis Bender because Hemmingway immediately came to my mind in the introduction of Alvis. There seems a few similarities in their lives and experiences.

I also have to wonder at the name Alvis Bender. There is something about that name that seems like the most unauthorly name I could think of.

I am not sure the signifigance maybe it is part of the humor but it seems the names are chosen (some quite odd) with clear intention. I almost think he is trying to allude to real people while juxdaposedly very fictitious names. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[TrudyA]

I was able to acquire a copy from the library, so will be joining this discussion. I began reading last night, and am in the middle of ch 2. It seems to be just what I need right now - good writing. a bit of humour, and good potential for an interesting story line.

[Kristie, Moderator]

I remember enjoying the writing in this one. I'm planning to start my reread tonight or tomorrow.

[Kristie, Moderator]

Clive - That's impressive that you taught yourself a language. I find new languages very difficult to learn and tend to forget everything I've learned not long after if I don't use it. I'd love to learn Italian. I think it's a beautiful language.

Sandra - I hope you are able to get the book soon. I listened to the audio my first time and enjoyed it.

[Clive]

I finished this book a few days ago and I thought I'd just write my thoughts here before they start to drift out of my mind.

I found that I much preferred the sections of the book based in Italy than those based in the USA. I suppose this is probably appropriate given the monthly theme but it was disappointing that there was such a divergence in my enjoyment of the two eras/locations. (view spoiler)[ I found the USA elements of the story to be almost redundant. I didn't like any of the characters in these sections and felt that the plot of this part of the story was poorly thought through. The concept of Claire looking to find fulfilment and make her film never went anywhere and Michael's motivations seemed so cliched. Even Pasquale's motivations in this section seemed confused. I think there is probably enough mileage in the Italian segments to make a full book from this period and I would probably have enjoyed that much more. (hide spoiler)]

The writing style was fantastic though and the reason that overall I would still say that I enjoyed the book. I'm not sure I could put my finger on exactly what it is exactly that I like but it reminded my of a couple of other books that I've read in the past few years that I liked. There were some fantastic turns of phrase used throughout and there were times where I found myself almost excited reading the words because it feels so cleverly written. I hope this makes sense, it's a strange feeling to try and describe. One of the clearest examples of the phrasing that I liked so much was (view spoiler)[ the smaller the space between your desire and what is right, the happier you will be. (hide spoiler)]

So overall I enjoyed the book, enjoyed parts of the story and would recommend it but with some caveats. I hadn't heard of it before it was nominated and it probably wouldn't have caught my attention otherwise so I'm pleased it came up here.

[Clive]

Kristie wrote: "Clive - That's impressive that you taught yourself a language. I find new languages very difficult to learn and tend to forget everything I've learned not long after if I don't use it. I'd love to ..."

I found Italian easier than I expected as a lot of the sentence structure is the same order as English which makes a difference. I started with the Duolingo app and then built on things from there. Not sure if you're aware of that or have used it before but it's a great tool for beginners.

[Sarah]

I love duolingo. I've used it ahead of holidays for about a year after Sandra recommended it to me. This year I've been using it to refresh my Spanish.

[Silver]

Clive wrote: "I finished this book a few days ago and I thought I'd just write my thoughts here before they start to drift out of my mind.

I found that I much preferred the sections of the book based in Italy t..."

I agree that to me the sections dealing with Italy are more enjoyable to read but I like the juxtaposition the authur creates.

I feel like the the parts in Italy have a more dreamlike quality. In part because while Italy is a real place Porto Vergona is fictional which gives the authur a bit more freedom in creation. He creates this own little world of his own. Also the fact that the sections set in Italy takes us back in time to another era.

The Hollywood sections are so typically Holloywood that even as absurd as they are they are more grounded in reality with the added ironic humur of the fact that Hollywood can be so incredibly fake and itself so much a fantasy world.

[Almeta]

Chapter 1. The Dying Actress. April 1962. Porto Vergogna, Italy.
The Dying Actress...
Is the name (view spoiler)[Porto Vergogna (Port of Shame) a portent of what this story will reveal? (hide spoiler)]

The name (view spoiler)[Adequate View Hotel gave me a chuckle. It seems the the view is not the only thing at the hotel that is just adequate. Reminds me of some four out of five star hotels that baffled me as to how they earned their rating. (hide spoiler)]

Pasquale Tursi'S (view spoiler)[ (or rather his father Carlo's) dream of tourist popularity seems pretty remote to me. His tennis court sounds near impossible. (hide spoiler)]

Orenzio's (view spoiler)[ constant crude insulting phrases are really funny. Loved that friendly teasing. Hope he is really a good guy and true friend to Pasquale. (hide spoiler)]

How did Dee Moray(view spoiler)[ ever decide to stay at this inn? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2. The Last Pitch. Recently. Hollywood, California.
Hope I can (view spoiler)[keep track of the location changes and associated characters. (hide spoiler)]

I really liked the description of the (view spoiler)[whispering of the sprinklers outside the Claire Silver's bedroom window. (hide spoiler)]

What is (view spoiler)[ Wild Pitch Friday? (hide spoiler)]

Shane Wheeler (view spoiler)[has an odd approach to getting through life by "acting" the parts rather than just experiencing it. (hide spoiler)]

I feel (view spoiler)[ sorry for the tasks that Claire has to endure, which veers far from her ideal of her carreer vision. It is all pretty funny though. (hide spoiler)]

Fate? (view spoiler)[ Claire goes back and meets both Pasquale and Shane there? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3. The Hotel Adequate View. April 1962. Porto Vergogna, Italy.
Dee Moray (view spoiler)[is still a mystery. Enjoyed the speculation of the fishermen. (hide spoiler)]

I think it is good that Mama (view spoiler)[will die believing her husband's dream of American tourism came true. (hide spoiler)]

Regretably (view spoiler)[extortion is everywhere! I think Gualfredo will be delivering more hardship in the future, (hide spoiler)]

I appreciate Avis Bender's (view spoiler)[ wish that touism would never come to this Italian getaway. (hide spoiler)]

Grinning about (view spoiler)[ Dee's and Aunt Valeria's misunderstood conversation. (hide spoiler)]

What a surprise! (view spoiler)[The doctor believes Dee is simply pregnant and having unusually severe symptoms not stomach cancer. Who manpulated Dee into believing a lie and hid her away? She would eventually catch on and possibly retaliate. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 4. The Smile of Heaven. April 1945. Near La Spezia, Italy.
Am I hearing Avis'(view spoiler)[book? (hide spoiler)]




Since I speak no Italian, I am pleased that Walter ensures that
words and phrases are translated, or a translation is implied by the scene described.

[Casceil]

Yes, Almeta. Chapter 4 is (view spoiler)[ Alvis's book. I liked the way the author stuck it in as a chapter of Beautiful Ruins. (hide spoiler)]

[Almeta]

Chapter 5. A Michael Deane Production. Recently. Hollywood Hills, California.

So I finally get to meet (view spoiler)[Michael Deane. I've heard a lot about him, but had not yet met him. lol! (hide spoiler)]

Michael's quest for (view spoiler)[ a youthful appearance with all the alterations remind me of the Cat Woman (Jocelyn Wildenstein). (hide spoiler)]

[Almeta]

Casceil wrote: "Yes, Almeta. Chapter 4 is [spoilers removed]"

Yes, It is a clever way to introduce that character.

[Almeta]

Chapter 6. The Cave Paintings. April 1962. Porto Vergogna, Italy.
I'd like to (view spoiler)[ believe as Pasquale does, that the soilders got home to their families and girlfriends. (hide spoiler)]

So Pasquale (view spoiler)[had another reason to go home after his father's death. His pregnant girl was gone from him. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7. Eating Human Flesh. 1846. Truckee, California.
Once again (view spoiler)[ the reader is sent right into a fictional tale with no warning that it is not really "THE PLOT". It doesn't take long to figure out that this is Shane's PITCH, however it is rather disorienting for a bit. I like it! (hide spoiler)]

Shane Wheeler’s movie pitch (view spoiler)[ is Donner!? Such a depressing "moral to the story". (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8. The Grand Hotel. April 1962. Rome, Italy.
Poor Pasquale. (view spoiler)[ How do you get to see Deane? What else could he have done? (hide spoiler)]

Humph, that did not (view spoiler)[ go well. Pasquale is stuck with the task of telling Dee the truth. (hide spoiler)]

I don't quite understand (view spoiler)[ Pasquale's guilt about his son and girlfriend. She rebuffed him. She was sent away from him. Then when he finds her again later she sends him away, refusing to let him see his son. (hide spoiler)]

[Almeta]

Chapter 9. The Room. Recently. Universal City, California.
"Wax on!" (view spoiler)[Loved the pop culture referene to Miyagi (Karate kid). "Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda (The Empire Strikes Back) (hide spoiler)]

I can actually (view spoiler)[feel Claire's out-of-breath, hysterical laughing episode! Well written. (hide spoiler)]

Deane doesn't (view spoiler)[exactly admit to being Pat's father. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10. The UK Tour. August 2008. Edinburgh, Scotland.
A new (view spoiler)[character now? Dee's son, Pat, is a "victim" of his own behavior. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 11. Dee of Troy. April 1962. Rome and Porto Vergogna, Italy.
Richard (view spoiler)[Burton admits to be Dee's baby's father. That was a surprise. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 12. The Tenth Pass. Recently. Los Angeles, California.
These angles(view spoiler)[ are surprisingly complicated. (hide spoiler)]

Ironic that (view spoiler)[ Dee actually develops cancer later in life. (hide spoiler)]

[Silver]

Ch. 7

(view spoiler)[I enjoy all the stories within stories of this book. We have Alvis Bender’s book, the story of the German solider who painted the beautiful woman, the stories of Porto Vergona in the past and Hollywood in the present and this section about Shane’s movie.

There are reacuuring themes in all these stories. They are about hope, loss, defeat, survival, and striving to create sonething better or more.

I also like the fluctuations between Romantic idealism and more cynical reality. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I haven't read any of your spoilers Almeta as I'm jot ready the book but see you rated it 4 stars. I guess you enjoyed it then.

It's half way through the month so hopefully more people will join in the discussion and those who have finished and are still reading will comment on your thoughts Almeta and discuss the book a bit more.

[Kristie, Moderator]

Wow, Almeta! Can’t wait to read all your spoilers. I’m away for the weekend, but plan to start when I get back. I thought I would have time earlier in the month, but no such luck.

[Silver]

Almeta wrote:Chapter 8. The Grand Hotel. April 1962. Rome, Italy.
Poor Pasquale.

Humph, that did not (view spoiler)

I don't quite understand (view spoiler)

.."

(view spoiler)[ I agree that Paquale’s situation is very different from Deane’s. I do not believe Pasquale should or needs to feel guilt. But I think it is part of the Italian culture that he feels it should be responsible for his child (even if he was rebuffed). He feels he failed his child and the child’s mother in part I think because she did not view him as a worthy match. And while he cannot force her to marry him or let him be a part of his life I think he feels bad for not making more of an effort to be involved in his son’s life. Unlike Deane Pasqule tried and wanted to do the honroable thing but Pasqule feels he did not make enough of an effort. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Silver]

Ch. 9

(view spoiler)[ I felt that Claire’s reaction to the movie pitch was unfair. But then I liked the movie (or rather the idea of the movie) for all the reasons Claire did not. I liked it because it was not a love story and because it did not end with a typical “Hollywood” ending. I loved the movie “Alive” which is another reason a Donner party movie appeals to me. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[TrudyA]

I finished the book a few days ago. I’d intended to comment here while reading, but have had a lot of distractions. I’ll read the discussion next and hopefully be able to contribute.

Overall, this was a very enjoyable book, funny and touching throughout. I don’t normally enjoy stories that jump between time periods, or stories-within-a-story. This book has both, but it was all nicely interwoven, so I think it worked well. The writing is great, and Walter certainly knows how to turn a phrase. Some of his character descriptions are priceless; I especially enjoyed the description of Michael Deane. How could one not love Pasquale?

With so many characters, I didn’t feel that I got to know any of them in depth. I thought the sections set in Italy were very strong. The ending was terrific, very moving, and one of the better endings I’ve read in awhile.

[TrudyA]

Almeta wrote: "..Since I speak no Italian, I am pleased that Walter ensures that words and phrases are translated, or a translation is implied by the scene described"

Agreed. Walter consistently ensured the reader knew the context of the Italian phrases he used, and I like that he didn’t explicitly spell things out for readers who don’t speak Italian. It can feel insulting when a writer feels the need to provide an English translation following every non-English phrase. And, it’s tedious to have to use a translator.

[Casceil]

I finished my re-read of the book last night, and I still love the book. I first read it with a different discussion group in 2014. Here are some links from that discussion. Two are reviews, and one is an article about the making of the movie Cleopatra.



A review by Maureen Corrigan of NPR
http://www.npr.org/2012/06/18/1550976...

NY Times review:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/boo...

Background on the making of Cleopatra, the movie:
http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article...

[Kristie, Moderator]

I fully intended to reread this one this month, even have a copy sitting on my nightstand from the library, but I just don't think I'm going to have time to get to it. I had several books planned, including a few reviews, but I'm just too far behind. I'm going to have to skip a couple and since this is a reread it is the first to go. Sorry I'll miss out on the discussion.

[Cherie]

I have been waiting for three weeks for the audiobook to be available, but no luck yet. They have no print copies nor ebook copies listed. Just strange.

[Silver]

Sorry I haven’t been around much. I am still reading/ intend to read the book but we are in the process of moving and I have not had time to pick up a book ( unless it was to put it in a box) in the past several days. I will respond and comment once things are more settled.

[Peggy]

Last day of the month already! Don't forget to head over to the reporting thread if you haven't done so yet.