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message 1: by Clare (last edited Jul 28, 2018 05:01AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Time to have a thread on wildfires to balance the flooding thread.

Fires are of course a force of nature, many started by lightning strikes, and they help to consume debris and provide nutrients to new growth, including making some seeds viable.

With climate warming, we are seeing continents drying out so that trees die or the land is parched, making fires easy to start, quickly spread and hard if not impossible to contain. Fires deliberately started in deforestation may burn the peat soil and become an unstoppable smoulder.

Wildlife is threatened. Fires can travel faster even than birds. Livestock is endangered. Communities may have to move wholesale. People can be trapped as they flee, breathing in smoke and suffocating from hot air. Firefighters may be trapped, especially on difficult terrain. Communication routes are blocked and telecommunications are downed. Devastation ensues.

We also see that intense fires can create their own weather, as hot air rises, sucking in cool air behind it, which then blows the fire forward. New terms we're learning include firenado, a column of twisting fire.

As fires tend to make the news when they affect communities, and not otherwise, we don't always hear about wilderness areas burning. These now include tundra fires as the heat moves up latitudes. Methane escaping from permafrost may play a bigger role in the future.

Please post books and links relevant to the discussion.


message 2: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
The current fire in southern California has required wholesale evacuation.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-carr-...

Some interesting comments are under that discussion, including the amount of fossil fuels exported by the US as well as those burned. I have not verified the figures shown.


message 3: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
More on the Carr fire in Shasta County, California. This item includes explanation of firenados or fire whirls.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-can...


message 4: by Clare (last edited Jul 28, 2018 04:51AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
This is an excellent read by a park ranger who fought Yellowstone fires. Spectacular photos.

Year Yellowstone Burned: A 25 Ypb: A Twenty-Five Year Perspective
Year Yellowstone Burned A 25 Ypb A Twenty-Five Year Perspective by Jeff Henry
Link to my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...


message 5: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Land on Fire: How Extreme Wildfire Is Reshaping the West
Land on Fire How Extreme Wildfire Is Reshaping the West by Gary Ferguson

Can't do better than this one for a full explanation of terms like ladder trees, firefighter tools, forensic reconstruction of how a fire started and spread, as well as a general look at wildfires and firefighting. Link to my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...


message 6: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Tragedy in Greece as three fires start on the mainland, either side of Athens, with suspicious simultaneous timing. Seventy-four deaths confirmed so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

Including one Irish person, on honeymoon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe...


message 7: by Clare (last edited Jul 28, 2018 05:05AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
This excellent book by a climate journalist who attended Arctic Conferences describes among other things how many fire scientists are working in arctic regions, studying tundra and forest fire spreads.

Future Arctic: Field Notes from a World on the Edge
Future Arctic Field Notes from a World on the Edge by Edward Struzik

Link to my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...


message 8: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments One thing about the fires is that the civil preparedness and the actual manpower and equipment at the local level is decreasing as it becomes more expensive to do the same job.

This is caused by a world economy that uses a price increase to indicate a value increase. The two have nothing to do with each other unless the price increase is because of a true value increase. Simply reselling a product for a higher profit does nothing to increase the the real value of the product. This whole process of artificial valuation makes itself present in real life by the cost of equipment need to perform certain basic functions.

In this case, the cost of fire fighting equipment is increasing and the cost of paying people to do the firefighting work is increasing only because the cost of firefighting equipment has become more expensive and the labor cost has increased. This results in less local firefighting ability and requires the need of calling in other stations to help manage a fire. Being able to respond to fires farther away also increases the cost. The cost of local water management also goes up with the increase in plastic building material used in place of less flammable material or less toxic flammable material. Building houses on top of houses doesn't help anyone. Having laws for using fire retardant materials and procedures are useless when they are applied only in selected areas leavings other areas with less restrictive codes within easy reach of wind blown embers.

The forests are also taking a physical beating from climate change. There is a lot of dead wood being generated at a faster rate by the decrease in the health of the trees and bushes in a forest. Just managing a forest the way it used to be done needs to be updated to keep up with the changing soil, rainfall, and insect situations. That updating means only one thing, more money needs to be spent. The money isn't available so the fires are going to burn in higher winds and hotter temperatures, which feeds fires, it doesn't suppress fires. Same as the storms, more heat and more moisture makes for bigger storms.

The changing weather conditions have increased the average power of the events past the point for which all the planning has been done to keep the structures standing during a normal weather event. There is no money to fix that either. Floods in your area, put your house on stilts, or move. Fires in your area, make a bomb shelter with the ability to supply oxygen and clean breathing air. Or move. Too windy or tornadoes, put a bomb shelter in but it doesn't have to have air recycling capabilities, a small savings. Or move. It's becoming a regular thing to have a tornado rating with the severe storm warnings. That used to be a rare event. There is circular movement in the storms in the NYC area now but the disturbance is way up in the atmosphere, but it is there and that's a new feature.


message 9: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
One thing I noted from Land On Fire is the sheer number of jobs which currently exist around wildfires. Everything from helicopter piloting to making special clothing. As you mention, Robert, this costs.


message 10: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Several countries within the Arctic Circle, including Sweden, are fighting wildfires at present. This article notes that increase in thunderstorms over the Arctic is making lightning strikes more frequent.
https://www.ecowatch.com/the-arctic-i...


message 11: by Clare (last edited Aug 01, 2018 11:01AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
NASA is measuring the California wildfires from space.

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.ph...

They say: "Much of the forest in this area suffered extreme stress due to the extended drought of 2012 through 2017, and bark beetle damage, leaving many dead trees through which the fire has burned rapidly."


message 12: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments Just raising the temperature of the entire globe a few degrees is adding extra energy to anything that uses energy.

Professor Craig Clements, Director of the Fire Weather Research Lab at San Jose State University, told KPIX 5 that a fire as intense as the Carr Fire will create its own weather patterns.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...


message 13: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
This weekend Portugal / Spain expect 44 degrees C and it may rise to 48 C next week.

We were in Portugal a few years ago when it got to 40 C. The locals just stayed indoors, and so did we. Every public square had a big fountain and pool. The nicer ones had trees for shade too.


message 14: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Astonishing to see a 747 called upon to help fight a fire. This is the Mendocino-Complex fire in California, formed by two fires merging. Six people are so far thought to have been killed.
And you know what, that 'Global Supertanker' doesn't even make a dent in it.
https://www.independent.ie/videos/wor...


message 15: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments It would be nice if there was a national fire fighting force that could be drawn from all 50 states at a moments notice, instead of waiting to see how long it takes to get out of hand. The US is building a shipless space fleet.


message 16: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Good video and graphic explanation of a Californian firenado. As we see, homes and trees were damaged by the wind, not the fire.

https://www.care2.com/causes/fire-tor...


message 17: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments The wind can carry the embers to developments that weren't built to the highest fire prevention standards because they weren't physically located in a hazardous fire zone. Does that mean those houses have to be rebuilt in order to keep their fire insurance.


message 18: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Very good point.


message 19: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Glacier National Park is on fire. Lightning started three wildfires and the dead trees and dry ground in the park, which has lost the majority of its glaciers during the past few years, have helped the fires spread. Evacuations are taking place.
https://grist.org/article/glacier-nat...


message 20: by Clare (last edited Aug 15, 2018 02:51AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
NASA is measuring amount and drift of smoke and carbon monoxide in the air from wildfires. The Californian fires are releasing massive amounts which are drifting east - pretty fast.
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.ph...

And fires are occurring more in the Amazon, which has experienced drought. Dead trees maybe next season's wildfires.
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.ph...

One reason for this drought is deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon region. The land dries out without trees to act as sponges.
Tax havens are sheltering firms and persons profiting from environmental destruction and overfishing.
https://www.theguardian.com/environme...


message 21: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
New research on wildfires, including firenados, pyrocumulus clouds, fire spotting (from flying burning leaves) and fire litter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/sc...


message 22: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Sydney has extended the wildfire season and is talking about altering construction codes to deal with extreme heat.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/20...
"In January this year Penrith – a major metropolitan area 50km west of the city centre – was the hottest place on Earth, reaching 47.3C while Sydney itself was 44C."
" Eight agencies in the western Sydney region have been working together to bring down temperatures through measures including tree-planting, installing air conditioning in public facilities, such as libraries and increasing opening hours for swimming pools in summer.
Stephen Bali, the mayor of Blacktown city council and president of the Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils, says there is a wider problem with the way Australian homes are built – typically with dark colours that absorb heat and without features that reduce the need for heating and cooling, such as double-glazed windows and double brick facades.
New homes being built in bushfire-prone areas must meet stringent building requirements, such as stronger glass with some ability to withstand heat and non-combustible features. But Bali says councils need the backing of state governments to mandate materials that are better suited to the Australian climate more broadly."

As another article points out, Australia can expect to experience 50 degrees C, with the SUDs effect, and 50 is halfway to boiling.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/20...


"In almost all countries, hospital admissions and death rates tend to rise when temperatures pass 35C – which is happening more often, in more places. Currently, 354 major cities experience average summer temperatures in excess of 35C; by 2050, climate change will push this to 970, according to the recent “Future We Don’t Want” study by the C40 alliance of the world’s biggest metropolises. In the same period, it predicts the number of urban dwellers exposed to this level of extreme heat will increase eightfold, to 1.6 billion."


message 23: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
The number of American jobs currently based on firefighting.
https://earther.gizmodo.com/heres-how...

Since we sometimes understand visuals more easily, a Forest Service blog shows how firefighting in the past ate 15% of their budget, by the fire year 2015 it ate 52% of budget, by 2025 it is projected to be 67%.
https://www.fs.fed.us/blogs/cost-figh...

If you can't see that one, it is referenced in the comments under the earlier article.


message 24: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments How Wildfires Are Polluting Rivers and Threatening Water Supplies

40 percent of the water for the world's 100 largest cities come from forests. The runoff after a fire can contain sediments for a long time after the fire. Water treatment plants are not normally set up to remove vast amounts of sediment from formerly sediment free water sources. The new sediment contains nitrogen and phosphorous which can effect the quality of the stream water changing what lives in them.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-wi...


message 25: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Some years ago I was in Tenerife with my husband and we saw a mountainside on which lived pine trees; these were adapted to a volcanic environment and so had survived a recent forest fire, with very thick bark. The guide told us that the trees when healthy helped to retain water on the mountain and it would take seven years before the full growth and full water retention was regained. Meanwhile, rainwater was running off into the sea.


message 26: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
I hadn't seen Utility Dive before, but it appears to be the place to go for all your utility news. California power lines are being deadened in attempt to stop wildfires starting.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/in-a...


message 27: by James (new)

James Kraus | 161 comments Hello,

I live in Redmond, OR.

Redmond is a staging area for Wildfire Air
Tankers. They fly over our house.

We had smoke for several weeks this summer. Here it is October & the Forest Service is doing prescribe burns & we have more smoke.

Last summer 6 million acres burned in the western USA. Vermont is approximately 6 million acres.

This summer we are close to 7.5+ million acres. Two years, two areas as big as Vt & NH.

I don't believe they include prescribe burns as a Wildfire. Wildfire includes brush & grass. Forest Fire is trees.

I understand that close to 40 million acres are at FIRE risk in the west.

And then there are Pine Bark Beetle killed trees.

Jim Kraus


message 28: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments The trees are definitely weakened on top of everything else. I got a bumper crop of broken branches to pick up this year, mostly after the wind blows. Some of them are too big for me to carry. I had one large branch come down right beside me earlier this year when I was walking to the library. It bounced off the ground away from me. There was no time to react. Didn't know what had happened until I looked around and saw the branch.


message 29: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Thanks James, as someone not at risk of forest fires it's extremely valuable for me to read of your experience.

I have an impression of Vermont as mixed species of trees, coniferous and deciduous, would that be right? I'm thinking if some are more vulnerable to drought than others the pattern of forest may have to change.


message 30: by Clare (last edited Oct 23, 2018 12:55AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Robert, do you know what kinds of trees are shedding the limbs? This is a way some trees cope with drought stress. Fewer limbs and foliage means they lose less water to transpiration.

Glad you were not hurt!


message 31: by James (new)

James Kraus | 161 comments Yes VT is a mix of hardwoods & evergreen. White Pine, Red, Black & White Spruce, white cedar & Definitely sugar & red maple, white birch, yellow birch, black & fire cherry. Etc. Fall colors are great.

There was a big sheep industry in VT in the late 1800s, many of the hills were grazed, a result producing much silt in the streams, & one of the reasons, Green Mountain National Forest was established, to protect The watershed.

Here in OR, reservoirs are 10% of normal, with the water gone, the reservoir bottoms are exposed & show beer cans & trash left by fishermen, so they have organized a clean up?

Something sick about this, no mention of a Human Caused Global
Warming drought, but people in the US will comment, “I have never seen Anything like this.”

Wow, & that is the best they can do. Is something missing here?

Jim K


message 32: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments Maples and hickories are the dominant trees in my area that are shedding branches. The fir trees are okay.

People are going to get tired of hearing “I have never seen Anything like this,” biggest ever, or epic proportions, as it continues to happen on a regular basis. Biblical proportions is another phrase that will also be abandoned.


message 33: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Maples make sense for drought stress, Robert. They grow quickly and so have weaker timber and joints than oak. The leaves are large with big surface areas and transpire a great deal of moisture from top and bottom surfaces.
So the tree, suffering, may 'decide' to shed a limb and save the tree. During the summer here, which was also very hot, many such trees started to brown and curl the leaves.

I have not worked on hickories but I know walnuts, a related tree without the shaggy bark. Hickories are a canopy tree so they give shade to lower trees, which helps during a drought.


message 34: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Thank Jim, you are painting a great picture for us.
If people are saying they have never seen anything like it for long enough, they will come to understand that something major has changed. They don't necessarily even need to understand why, but they do need to understand that there are actions they can take to remedy matters. Trouble is, this may not come in time for the rest of us to turn matters around.
Farmers are well able to understand that they have drained an aquifer for irrigation, so they should grow crops that need less water.

I am glad the lakebed trash is being cleaned up. A small step in the right direction and a good example to kids.


message 35: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments Entire population of 30,000 apparently had little time to evacuate safely, some leaving cars behind them as a fast moving fire approached.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/evacuation...


message 36: by Clare (last edited Nov 09, 2018 09:25AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Thanks, looks devastating.

Here's another look at that town;
https://www.ecowatch.com/california-w...

They mention that it hasn't rained since May.


message 37: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments Saw on the news there were two fires, the other one had people driving the wrong way on the highway to get out of harm's way. I wonder if that was the plan or if people just did it.


message 38: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Nine people have died from fire in California, and it appears to be the most expensive fire this year in terms of buildings. Two locations (N and S) and three fires are what I saw reported.
Cali buildings tend to be made of wood due to the earthquake risk.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/paradise-...


message 39: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments They have zones for areas that need special building materials to reduce wild fires. The other zones have less stringent or no special building requirements. Its the same situation as the areas designated as flood zones get the flood insurance while those areas not considered flood prone areas don't get the flood insurance. It now rains heavy in both types of designated areas.

The areas burning are classified as high risk fire areas. The wind might make that type of classification useless as time goes on in terms of what can be done in those areas.

The state of California is revoking the licenses of two Santa Rosa senior housing facilities Thursday after finding that employees abandoned dozens of elderly and disabled residents during a confused and frantic evacuation amid the deadly Tubbs Fire last year. On the surface this seems like a reasonable response but in reality it is a cover up of all the states unpreparedness that the entire country is facing under the new weather conditions.

Apparently the people who work in nursing homes, assisted living centers, and other senior establishments will be required to know how to handle floods, fires, and other national disasters in a professional and qualified manner because the states have inadequate staffing for these services and rely on outside help when the situation over whelms their efforts.

The national guard would seem to be the best backup to staff these operations but they need money to do anything except stand around and the money isn't there because it is more important to give corporation tax breaks than to make them responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of the country, which includes responding to emergency situations. Other peoples money has become other peoples problems. Those kinds of solutions don't work in the Brave New World run by Mother Nature. Ironically people thought that out of control governments would be the big risk in the future when it is governments barely able to control anything when the real world noticeably spirals out of our imaginary control that are the real problem.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/californi...


message 40: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
A quarter of a million people are under evacuation in California. Malibu has been evacuated. The death toll sadly has reached 23 at present with many more people missing.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news...

An Irish actor told RTE about his experience.

"Fair City actor Victor Burke said he was reluctant to leave his home when news of the fires broke as he thought everyone was "exaggerating".

However, he said once he saw 100ft flames coming over the hills, he and his family bundled themselves into their car and fled the area.

Mr Burke said every five minutes the flames would move "football fields" closer.

"We just ran. I grabbed the kids and the dog and whatever we could grab... and drove north", he said.

Mr Burke and his family have been living in Malibu for the past three years.

He said that people do not realise that Malibu is rural and most places only have one way in and one way out.

He said he is very worried about some of his friends, who he has not heard from yet."
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1110/101...


message 41: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Robert, the Independent article above mentioned a university with over 7,000 students which was built as a fire safe place. I am presuming this means with sports fields and so on as fire breaks, as well as the buildings themselves being safe. Could these places be used as refuges or do you think lines of cars would bring fire risk closer?


message 42: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments https://www.wired.com/story/the-only-...

Anything flammable in the path of a high speed wind driven fire is only going to feed it, probably even direct which way some of the flames will go next. Fireproof building walls and roofs might be the only solution.

I think almost everything is built to the old standards before the weather intensity got ramped up which isn't that long ago. If the fire was advancing in football size leaps the fire breaks would have to be much bigger to be effective. How many miles were the embers blowing in the wind last year? Its the 50 mph winds carrying the flames and embers that are doing the damage. Its an odd thought but those underground bomb shelters from the 60s with self contained air systems might be the best solution.

It seems like they are not able to warn everyone in time anymore. The fires seem to be mimicking tornadoes, except that they last for days, sometimes weeks. California has been experiencing fires all along, it just stopped being newsworthy at the national level. A possible solution would be to evacuate everyone days before a major water storm hits, but no one would go for that. I think its the initial rush at the beginning between the time it starts and when it becomes unmanageable that is creating the most serious problems.

Hopefully most of the missing people just don't have access to communication services to contact anyone. But if that is the case, how could that be possible, hotels, stores, even restaurants have some kind of communication services. Lack of any sort of coordinated emergency response to wide spread events is sorely lacking.

The article I found about the California nursing homes losing their licenses because of improper response to the approaching fires a year ago was not encouraging. One of the complaints was that four ordinary people, overlooking 220 senior people were not able to find flashlights or keys for the company vehicles (locked up the same way concert doors are locked up?). What would four people do with flashlights and keys to company vehicles be able to do? Does any nursing home have enough vehicles to transport 220 people, never mind where the drivers are coming from, with little notice, and are the GPS direction giving machines updated so that no one drives into a fire wall instead of away from it. They needed professional help right from the start. Most places probably passed the test because they weren't directly in the way of an oncoming fire. Thinking we are okay because something missed us is how these new challenges are being faced, a system that fails when actually put to the test.

It's the moment it goes from thinking it's an exaggeration to where you see flames coming and it's just not for one little group of individuals. Paradise had 30,000 people needing to get out of the way immediately. How much warming did they have? What about the people in the nursing homes, senior centers, assisted living. How many people can a person physically lift up and move to another location before they sprain every muscle in their body? How do people work with a back injury or severely damaged shoulder? Firemen practice running around in their bulky suits carrying weights. Will everyone who works with seniors be required to be able to do the same thing?

It keeps coming down to the same problem. We can't build where we can't build. Everyone wants to be entertained by what they are reading. They don't want to see more bad news. The materials we use now range from not so flammable to highly flammable under ordinary conditions. Ramp up the wind speed and everything burns out of control. Still, people are going to try to make nonflammable buildings.

When the wind speed is dramatically increased and there is no rain anywhere in sight most of the material changes it's fire risk status to highly flammable. Its the same as that house in Florida, to make it storm proof the cement foundation walls that usually don't even go up to the first floor went up to the top of the second floor. It survived but windows still blew out and appliances and the wiring were destroyed by the salt water. The people did not ride out the storm in their storm proof house.

We are trying to make buildings weather proof in areas where they shouldn't be built in the first place. If it shouldn't be there and it is built, people think that the rules of real world will be suspended for them. Because of the past infrequency of severe weather people could get away with it. Those days are not only over, they are spreading out all over the world. There are many cities in the world that would look just like Chicago or San Francisco from 100 years ago if they had a major wind driven fire sweep through the city.

The manpower just isn't there to fight fires, and even if they had enough people they don't have the equipment to stand in front of 50 mph wind driven flames. We can trim the forests and brush all we want but will that won't do any good in a urban setting. Everything is set up to handle single incidents and that just isn't going to work anymore.

The structure of the atmosphere's infrastructure had been fairly stable for as long as we can imagine, which is probably 10,000 years. It had two polar caps, then an intermediate zone, then the equator. The winds are the results of the interaction of these zones. The rotation of the Earth, heat from the Sun, and gravity pull from the moon haven't changed. Those are all constants. But polar caps influenced the wind currents and people know the wind and ocean currents interact, but no one knows exactly how the new wind patterns will interact with the changing ocean currents.

As the polar regions continue to physically crumble, the wind and air currents change, all the data as to how the weather works over the past two hundred years is becoming worthless as far as predicting future weather patterns and intensity of the events. There is going to be a long period of instability until the weather stabilizes again. The less time it takes the more severe the changes will be before conditions stabilize.

I suppose it could be likened to when Neanderthals watched an oncoming ice age, nothing they could do except adapt to the changing conditions. Land that was covered with ice they couldn't use anymore, except maybe to stand on the ice, use it as a shortcut, maybe even preserve food.

Unfortunately for us, the future has already started without us. We can rebuild better and build only in safe areas, and provide emergency services able to respond to whatever happens, that choice is up to us. If we were more technologically advanced it would be different, but we aren't. Until individual countries stop thinking they can stand up to the weather things probably aren't going to change much for the better.


message 43: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
The continuing story. Heartbreaking.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news...


message 44: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
A CNN forecaster explains the current weather.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/cnn-meteo...


message 45: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments "Ice plant is not supposed to burn," Lorenzen said Sunday. "So my message to the community today is maybe 10 to 20 years ago you stayed in your homes when there was a fire and you were able to protect them. Things are not the way they were 10 years ago. The rate of spread is exponentially more than what it used to be."

Everything except our ability to respond to any crisis, disaster, or event has gone up exponentially. This is happening because the size of things has increased exponentially, not linearly like we are accustomed to seeing.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/paradise-lo...


message 46: by Clare (last edited Nov 13, 2018 10:32AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Agreed, my husband talks about that too. He says human brains are not easily able to cope with exponential growth as a concept.

A perfect illustration is found here; this relates filling the empty Lake Michigan with water, a drop first, doubling constantly.
https://www.motherjones.com/media/201...

The article is about artificial intelligence.


message 47: by Clare (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
NASA is able to show the extent of wildfire damage.

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.ph...


message 48: by Clare (last edited Nov 15, 2018 02:21AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Horses had to be moved away from fire danger.
Well done to these heroes.

https://earther.gizmodo.com/meet-the-...


message 49: by Robert (new)

Robert Zwilling | 2001 comments California wildfires have already claimed 66 lives, with another 631 missing.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/paradise-lo...


message 50: by Clare (last edited Nov 16, 2018 01:43AM) (new)

Clare O'Beara | 6047 comments Mod
Quote from your story:
" "This is one of the worst disasters I've ever seen in my career, hands down," Long said at a news conference Wednesday in Northern California.
Brown said the destruction "looks like a war zone." He said he spoke earlier Wednesday to President Donald Trump, "who pledged the full resources of the federal government" to help in the recovery effort.
A public health emergency
U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar on Wednesday declared a public health emergency in California. "

The air quality is poor, those plumes of smoke and ash travel a long way. This means surface water will be contaminated. Shelters and hotels will be full. Those people who are less able are out of their usual environment. Stores won't be resupplied because some highways will be closed. Anyone who could bring pets did, and those need food too.

The scale is staggering.


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