Legendary (Caraval, #2) Legendary discussion


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Legendary Questions/Musings and Finale Predictions *SPOILERS*

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message 1: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T *SPOILERS ABOUND*
This book let me with a ton of questions....in no particular order...Spoilers abound.

1. Oh the Stars! Are the coming back?
2. What did Dante have to promise in order to get around Tella paying her debt?
3. How did Dante know Paradise the Lost had the deck of cards?
4. Magic is fueled by Time and blood and hopes and dreams. I think Legend specializes in the latter type of magic but does Julian specialize in blood magic?
5. Who's blood did Tella drink?
6. Will she and Scarlett end up with magic powers of their own because they drank blood "directly from the veins?"
7. What on earth did Scarlett have to promise Jacks in order to get him to find her fiancé?
8. Is Count Nicolas D'Arcy even Scarlett's fiancé's real name? His name is only ever revealed by players in the game and that's not reliable.
9. Is Dante the true lost heir?
10. What's up with Julian and Dante's relationship? What happened in those childhoods?

Related to 9 and 10.
It's alluded that Dante may be the real heir. The Empress says that she used to have a Fated deck of cards. My guess is that the Empress slept with Dante's father to steal the deck of cards. Those cards were subsequently stolen by Paradise the Lost which is how she ended up on Valenda's Most Wanted. Elantine dropped Dante off with daddy to protect him from assassination and Dante ends up the lost heir?

The second part of this theory is that when Dante's father gives him away to pirates Julian leaves home in search of the brother he idolizes.

But it may also just be another con, Tella seems to think so!

Other predictions. Tella isn't Jacks true love, it's Scarlett. I think the kindness he extends towards Tella is because he's in love with her sister and Scarlett is so devoted to Tella. Either that or the magical blood healed Tella. And if Scarlett is his true love, and Julian has to contend with a Fate possibly forcing Scarlett to fall in love with him or vying for her affections along with her maybe real fiancé he is going to lose his ever loving mind!!! : )

I'm pretty sure the Stars are to the Fates what the Titans are to the Gods. Like Oh you thought we were terrible? You have no idea who our parents are...lol. So if the Stars show up it's really gonna hit the fan in the 3rd book.

What are your questions/theories?


helena Your theory about Scarlett being Jacks true love makes a lot of sense. I would have never thought of it but that would explain loads of unanswered questions...
Do you think that Dante is truly Legend? To me it seems impossible. If Legend had so much power, why did he have to give something up to save Tella? And why did he play the game as a performer?
I'm so curious !


message 3: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T Helena🥀 wrote: "Your theory about Scarlett being Jacks true love makes a lot of sense. I would have never thought of it but that would explain loads of unanswered questions...
Do you think that Dante is truly Leg..."


I think it is Dante but other players (i.e. Julian) have power to varying degrees.

I did not want Legend to be Dante for lots of reasons. Nothing about Dante in the original story says "I'm really trying to redeem myself for maybe being responsible for a girl killing herself in the past." The fact that he was supposed to play the role of Scarlett's love interest in Caraval until Julian stepped in is disturbing. How do you fix what you did in the past by doing the exact same thing with a different girl?? In Legendary, the imply that he may have really liked Scarlett but its still squicky.

Also, his being dead during the climax of action in Caraval doesn't sit well. Either he was willing to be absent and let Tella jump without being totally sure Scarlett could pass the tests (because the final test was given on the balcony), or even worse he wasn't entirely in control and was genuinely killed by mistake which is even more terrifying.

I am guessing he had to trade something to get Tella in the vault because although he has power he's not all powerful.

Do you think that in the first book he agreed to help Tella and set up the game because he was truly sorry about what happened in the past or do you think he was always planning to set up another game and knew that she could help him get closer to the Deck of Destiny cards?


helena T wrote: "Helena🥀 wrote: "Your theory about Scarlett being Jacks true love makes a lot of sense. I would have never thought of it but that would explain loads of unanswered questions...
Do you think that Da..."


I totally agree. Somehow Dante's story and Legend's story don't match. Legend is supposed to be the Creator, the Magician, the Legend, yet he plays an unnecessary part in the game and... DIES?! As you said, it could have been an accident but how could someone accidentally kill Legend?

I don't think Legend cared at all. My theory is that he knew Tella had the Deck of Destiny because he knew Tella's mother. It's pretty obvious he knew Paradise because he put the third clue on the back of her poster in Legendary. Since Legend never ages, it's very possible that he had an affair with Paradise and found out about the Deck. So, after he found out Tella was her daughter, he assumed the Dragna sisters could help him find the Deck. It's all a bit confusing but it's a theory!

What did you think about Scarlett in Legendary? I definitely think she was up to something with Jacks. And why on earth would she want to meet the Count. I thought she wanted nothing to do with him and her father anymore... Plus, it's totally out of her character to want to make Julian jealous. That's something Tella would do!


message 5: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T That's a good point about the 3rd clue! No idea what Scarlett was doing. I think she really was looking for her former fiancé, I think she'd just had enough of Julian's shenanigans. But I agree doing anything to make him jealous seems a bit out of character for her, and it doesn't make sense since he has contact with her father. I was hoping she was actually part of the game because Tella deserves a bit of her own medicine. I understand why she wouldn't participate--Scarlett's Caraval experience was T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E!

Why do you think Paloma took Jack's place in his card? Do you think she was tricked or maybe she'd seen Tella's fate and knew he needed to be free to make a deal with her?

Also I just recently realized Tella is responsible for the spell weakening on the cards. They mentioned that each time the cards are used and a fortune is told the spell weakens a bit, Tella was sneaky and didn't return all the cards to her mother and continued to use The Aracle at least for years, looking at her own future, Scarlett's future and looking for her mother.


Nina K I posted this as a question, but it may be better served here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't the whole purpose of Caraval was for Legend to get Annalise's attention (the sisters' grandmother) and then further punish her heirs? Now Legend is in love with Tella? His former loves granddaughter? Am I misremembering? The part is really bothering me.


message 7: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T Nina wrote: "I posted this as a question, but it may be better served here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't the whole purpose of Caraval was for Legend to get Annalise's attention (the sisters' grandmot..."

Kinda...the history of how Caraval the game came to be wasn't explained I don't think. But in the original book the story is that Legend wants power so that he can can be chosen to perform at Elantine's Coronation and he thinks that performing spectacular magic at the Queen's coronation will give him the fame and fortune he needs to marry Annalise since her father (allegedly) wouldn't let her marry someone poor.

As far as punishing the future heirs that was part of the lie that was told for the game Scarlett played. Legend never made a vow to destroy Annalise's female heirs they just broke up and that was that.
And yes, now he is, maybe, in love with Donatella who if I recall correctly heavily favors Annalise. 0_O I guess he has a type.


Nina K T wrote: "Nina wrote: "I posted this as a question, but it may be better served here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't the whole purpose of Caraval was for Legend to get Annalise's attention (the sist..."

Ok, thanks for clearing that up! I get that Legend is not 100% human but this match up is a bit of a misstep for me. In love with the grandmother and now the granddaughter.....kind of odd.


message 9: by RL (new) - rated it 5 stars

RL All I know is that I can’t wait to read it! I really want to know Legend’s true past! Every book just keeps getting better and I feel like the third book will blow our minds.


message 10: by Riya (new) - rated it 4 stars

Riya Queen I’m a little bit confused here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but only if Jacks had kissed Scarlett his heart would’ve beaten right? (Assuming that Scarlett is his true love which we don’t know for sure)


Afiqah Razak Am i the only one who ships Jacks and Tella? I know Tella would most probably end up with Legend(assuming Dante is actually Legend).But I honestly think they're kind a cute eventhough most people think Scarlett is Jacks' true love..Even so,I think Julian deserves to be with Scarlett no matter what cause we can see how his love towards Scarlett develop throughout Caraval.

Finally,I truly hope Tella won't be fighting with Dante to get the throne cause for me,power should never be the reason a relationship is broken


message 12: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T Arianna wrote: "I’m a little bit confused here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but only if Jacks had kissed Scarlett his heart would’ve beaten right? (Assuming that Scarlett is his true love which we don’t know for sure)"

Not sure about the kiss...it depends on if the entire myth we've been told is true. I'm assuming there was a fair amount of time Jacks and Scarlett spent together where we (the readers) weren't present just because we were following Tella's story--they could've kissed then.

I vaguely recall there being a scene after Jacks kisses Tella where she mentions that he was faintly glowing which made me think he may have kissed someone else. And I think the scene was the one where Tella wakes up in her room after having been hurt and Scarlett and Jacks are there...I'll go find my book later and confirm.


message 13: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T Afiqah wrote: "Am i the only one who ships Jacks and Tella? I know Tella would most probably end up with Legend(assuming Dante is actually Legend).But I honestly think they're kind a cute eventhough most people t..."

I don't know if I ship Jacks with anyone for that person's sake; Jacks is hilarious but also terrible. That being said he's my favorite character in the book.


message 14: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T I also figured out later on that Dante isn't the true heir, after I realized the Empress never used pronouns so it was likely a female. And that Paloma would be the only one that would be close enough to her to steal from her, and still be endeared to her.

Oh! It occurred to me after the fact that Jacks clothes may be symbolic, it may be messy and tattered because he doesn't have his powers and he's not all the way together. Either that or he's lazy but it seems curious that he cares so much about Tella's clothes and that his own clothes are clearly described as being expensive but in a ruinous state.


message 15: by Victoria (new) - added it

Victoria I have a question! This is probably really dumb, but:
1) Why did Dante leave Tella on the steps at the end?
K I get that he had to go show himself as the heir of the place but still. Could've said like, i'll be back or something. AND he didn't have to save Tella from the cards either. It showed he cared when he broke the fates curse just to free Tella. Doesn't it seem really weird that he would just leave her there after saving her? I need answers here!!! :(
Also I agree about the Scarlet and Jacks thing. Maybe one of Jacks "requests" was like Tella's request to act engaged or something and Scarlet turned out to be the one true love. But then poor Julian.


message 16: by Riya (new) - rated it 4 stars

Riya Queen Victoria wrote: "I have a question! This is probably really dumb, but:
1) Why did Dante leave Tella on the steps at the end?
K I get that he had to go show himself as the heir of the place but still. Could've said..."


Dante does actually care for Tella, but we don’t know his intensions for sure. And I’m hoping that Jacks doesn’t end up with Scarlett. Nope.


message 17: by Justyna (new) - added it

Justyna Zonko Dante IS Legend. In Legendary he actually confirms it. I don't mean when Tella won the game but early on. The second night of the Caraval before he gives Tella gloves. He says "even if I wasn't Legend I would want you to win" (p.199 hardcover). It is before Tella enters the church of Legend. I think Dante cares for Tella and let it slip up but she didn't pay him much attention then because she didn't think he could be Legend.

Also anyone else get a feeling that Finale might not be the last book? Afterall Legendary claims there are four parts to any story - beginning, middle, the almost-ending and the true ending.


WinterRose Jumping in on this because I've been wanting to discuss. :)

How do you fix what you did in the past by doing the exact same thing with a different girl?

Such a good point. It's really...icky. Tbh I'm not a fan of Dante and unless he does a 180, I don't see how he's this epic schemer mastermind. He acts like a teenager, all hot and bothered and unable to keep his cool. Unlike Jacks who actually acts immortal and ageless. I keep hoping there will be another twist and it's actually Jacks who has manipulated Dante into pretending he's Legend.

It's just disappointing. :/

I'm afraid I'm not a Scarlett fan either, I found her a bit bland so I don't care much for her story. The Count feels like he should be important, but why bother developing with Julian in two books just to have Scarlett end up with someone we only meet in the third book?

Jacks is my favorite so I'm hoping he's not Scarlett's true love. Maybe the Count is Jacks? I don't know. I'm rooting for Tella and Jacks. They had a lot of chemistry and interesting dynamic.


message 19: by Riya (new) - rated it 4 stars

Riya Queen WinterRose wrote: "Jumping in on this because I've been wanting to discuss. :)

How do you fix what you did in the past by doing the exact same thing with a different girl?

Such a good point. It's really...icky. Tbh..."

Its been so long since I read this, I forgot who the count is. And yeah, I definitely don’t want Scarlett and Jacks to end up together.


message 20: by Jia (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jia Justyna wrote: "Dante IS Legend. In Legendary he actually confirms it. I don't mean when Tella won the game but early on. The second night of the Caraval before he gives Tella gloves. He says "even if I wasn't Leg..."

You are so right! I hope that there will be a fourth book too, although it says in the summary that all games must end so I dunno... I also really want Dante’s and tell anyone to get together, so it can kinda be like brother Andy sister couple, if you know what I mean ;)


message 21: by WinterRose (last edited Feb 11, 2019 08:48PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

WinterRose I have a wild theory. I just can't for the life of me think this game is nothing but lazy writing--but hey maybe it is. Maybe this "wondrous" Legend has nothing better to do than follow Tella around and give her clues to ensure she wins. I'd like to think Garber has some twists up her sleeves but maybe it's wishful thinking lol. I was re-reading this bit:


"Would you tell me who he is?" Tella asked.

"You know I can't do that."

"You could if you were Legend."

Dante's voice rumbled with a laugh. "If I was Legend I'd definitely never tell you."

"Because you don't trust me?"

"No," he answered slowly, gently tugging her closer. "I'd hold onto my secret because I'd want to keep playing this game with you, and if I told you the truth it'd spoil all the fun."


So this makes it sound like Tella figuring out who Legend is stops the game. Seems ironic that Jacks is after his name now. Maybe he does want to put Legend in a card. Or...

I was thinking about the show Westworld. For those who haven't seen it, long story short there's a world of characters that aren't aware they are characters. When they die, they wake up and just start their day back over. Real humans visit this world, like an amusement park of sorts. Eventually the characters figure it out but my point is they aren't aware they aren't real.

What if there's something similar with Caraval, and it's continuous? Like Tella and Scarlett don't know it, but they've played over and over? Maybe Tella was actually that girl that died all those years ago and this is Legend's way of keeping her alive? Or something like that, and that's why Jacks wants his name, because he wants to end the game.

It's probably far fetched, but I can't help but think there HAS to be more to it. How can there be a "game" but only Scarlett and Tella appear to be players? And everything is always so convenient for them? If Dante is truly Legend's name, is he really that stupid to go by it? He also supposedly never wears the same face, but Dante has been Dante for two Caraval's now, and it's not like he changed appearance or personality, since apparently he's playing a character.

I feel like this series needs twists and so far, everything has sadly been very predictable and it just makes me sad and disappointed.


message 22: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T WinterRose wrote: "I have a wild theory. I just can't for the life of me think this game is nothing but lazy writing--but hey maybe it is. Maybe this "wondrous" Legend has nothing better to do than follow Tella aroun..."

WinterRose That's an interesting theory. I always got the impression that there were lots of other players however the story just wasn't centered around them so we don't hear much about them.

As far as him never wearing the same face, I think this was meant to convey that a different actor plays the character "Legend" within the game, not that Legend literally reinvents himself each time.
Caspar and Dante as described in the novels look totally different. So if you're a regular person who met Caspar and left the game believing he was Legend, and another person came back from a different Caraval and said they met Legend too and they start going on about how he has black hair and is tall...You'd wonder why the descriptions didn't line up. It's explained that laypeople came up with their own explanation for this by guessing that he used magic to change his face.

As far as everything being convenient, Scarlett seemed to have been fairly traumatized by her Caraval experience. At any rate if Legend or Dante is pulling the strings behind this the coincidences make sense the first game was set up FOR Scarlett to "win." All of it is for moot if they don't ultimately get her to that balcony to see the big jump. Most likely several different scenarios were planned out that would all lead her to the same conclusion. Not to mention Julian literally inserts himself as her guide to make it easier for her.

In Legendary again it seems the game was set up to an extent for Tella to win. It's mentioned that most of the people that live in the city are playing but Dante knows that Paloma is Tella's mother and thinks she may know where the cards are. He presumably would hedge his bets on the player he thought was most likely to be successful in delivering what he wants So he inserts himself in Julian's previous role and starts helping her out in the game.


message 23: by T (new) - rated it 3 stars

T I mentioned this as an earlier theory but I've resisted this book recently and I'd be very, very surprised if Tella doesn't have some type of magical power in this next book.

I think it was hinted at a lot during this book:

1. In the scene where Jacks and Tella watch a play with Elantine over dinner they people in the play specifically mention the fates using their immortal blood to turn people in to cards, which I'm guessing means regular blood shouldn't be able to be used.
2. Tella is able to turn herself into a card at the end of the book using her own blood.
3. Tella most likely drank blood directly from Dante's veins during the scene where Julian heals her.
4. Jacks tells Tella power is taken by drinking blood directly from another person's veins.
5. In the flashback scene where Paloma trades Tella to the Stars she says she's seen her future and that Tella will end up being the most powerful of all or something along those lines.

I am hoping I'm wrong and this doesn't happen, it would bum me out immensely.


message 24: by WinterRose (last edited Feb 15, 2019 08:06PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

WinterRose "I always got the impression that there were lots of other players however the story just wasn't centered around them so we don't hear much about them."

I mean, I get that, but it's like The Hunger Games. It was Katniss's story but we knew about Cato, Clove, Marvel, etc. I don't think Garber needed to go into too much detail, but she neglected them completely to the point that I didn't for a second think Scarlett or Tella had any competition. There were no stakes, that is.

And I think you're right, that both games were set up for Scarlett (and then Tella) to win, and I think that's my issue. I'd rather have the game set up fairly so the wins felt earned and not cheap. Maybe if it hadn't been a game, but an entertainment park/circus of sorts. Where you still had to be invited, but it wasn't one big contrived game.

If I'm promised a game, I just don't want it set up so obviously for someone to win because it just frustrated me as a reader. If I'm told it's a game, then losing should feel like an option. There should be stakes.

As for the blood theory, didn't Jacks or Dante say a human must be willing to trade places in the card? I do remember the part about immortal blood, but I think it's also said it can be a human. I don't doubt that Tella will have some magic in her. I was assuming Paloma is also the true heir. Seems predictable, but I won't be surprised.


WinterRose I am curious how the fates became fates. Jacks said he was once human.


message 26: by Jess (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jess Shanks Justyna wrote: "Dante IS Legend. In Legendary he actually confirms it. I don't mean when Tella won the game but early on. The second night of the Caraval before he gives Tella gloves. He says "even if I wasn't Leg..."

I really, really, really would lose my S**** ((in a good way)) if she follows that pattern and actually publishes a surprise book. BUT if she *does* do that....we all need to be prepared....they do say that most people GIVE UP after the third part (almost-ending) and lose hope and blah blah and thus never make it to the fourth part (the real ending). I'm taking this to mean (assuming we get the surprise 4th book) THAT SHE WILL WRECK OUR HEARTS at the end of the 3rd book. Just saying.


Leona Volpe @WinterRose Thats funny, because when I first readed Caraval I had this impression that the story was some sort of Westworld - Moulin Rouge - version.

Also, I wanna know how much disappoint you are with Finale, cause Im very sad.


message 28: by Jia (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jia Finale spoiler


Hmm just in case you wanted to know tella is jacks true love, and the reason why Julian loves legend but legend can’t live julian is because legend can’t love, or else he loses immortality...


WinterRose @ Vanessa

Disappointed but not surprised lol. It’s like there were so many directions she could have gone and she went predicable and boring. I also thought Finale was all over the place. A hot mess.


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