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Lonesome Dove (Lonesome Dove, #1)
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PAST Group Reads 2018 > Lonesome Dove, Part 2 of 3- Summer- Potential Spoilers

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message 1: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 20, 2018 06:06AM) (new)

Image result for lonesome dove red river


The journey has started


message 2: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 20, 2018 06:07AM) (new)

FAVORITE PASSAGES/QUOTES


Jacinta | 70 comments I've read through chapter 53 at this point, and I'm definitely more engaged. I find most if the newly introduced characters more interesting than the central characters from Part 1, and the female characters capture my attention and sympathy more than any of the men.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

Right now, I'm in the middle of C.38.

July and Elmira and her son Joe are an interesting trio. It bothers me how easily (view spoiler)


Jacinta | 70 comments (view spoiler)


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

I especially agree with your last sentence, (view spoiler)


Parker | 204 comments Early America was a tough place to be a woman. As a child, you were the property of your father (mothers had no rights to their children at all). When you married, you were the property of your husband. If you didn't marry, you were limited as far as careers: governess, schoolmistress or prostitute. You might be able to work in a store of some kind (usually catering to women). There were relatively few female business owners, and they were usually the widows of the original owner.

There was no birth control that was very effective (there were condoms, but they were made out of sheepkin and had a pretty high failure rate. (During the Civil War, they were known as French Envelopes.)

Most parents weren't all that affectionate with their kids. Kids were seen as miniature adults and treated so. The death rate for kids was astronomical (something like 1 in 5, I believe. Don't quote me.)

Life for men was not much of a picnic either, especially if you were on the lower end of the economic scale. Life expectancy was pretty short (a 70 year old person was really old), so (especially for cowboys) the motto was something like: "live for today. You might not be here tomorrow."


Jacinta | 70 comments I just finished Part 2, and all I have to say is, (view spoiler)


message 10: by Skye (new) - added it

Skye | 72 comments Jacinta; I haven't ordered this yet, but I can; are your enjoying it?
I recommended it to another group.


message 11: by [deleted user] (new)

Skye, Yes! Order it and read it with us too. These threads will stay open indefinately so you can comment as you read.


message 12: by Skye (new) - added it

Skye | 72 comments I will do it right now, and thanks SO much, Karne


Diane I'm enjoying Part II of the book so far. It is interesting to me that so many of the story lines have people looking for (or chasing) other folks out West. I'm surprised that they think they would actually find them! But it is a book of fiction - so I'm sure many of the folks find who they are looking for by the end of the book...! I also am enjoying the new characters that were added in Part II.


message 14: by Skye (new) - added it

Skye | 72 comments This is great news: I suggested the book.


Jacinta | 70 comments I think it's interesting - and important - that Call often refuses to give people their proper names (especially Lorie and Newt).


message 16: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 25, 2018 10:56AM) (new)

I finished Part 2 today. All I can say is (view spoiler)


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

Jacinta wrote: "I think it's interesting - and important - that Call often refuses to give people their proper names (especially Lorie and Newt)."

Also interesting when Gus observes (view spoiler)


Jacinta | 70 comments Yes! I didn't want to get too specific because I finished the book and I couldn't remember when that happened and didn't want to spoil anything. But I think that would be fascinating to discuss when people have finished the book!


message 19: by Skye (new) - added it

Skye | 72 comments Karen, are you enjoying it? Jacinta?


Jacinta | 70 comments Yes, I liked it. The story moved along so it never felt as long as it was and some of the characters were great. There were some things I liked about the book better than others, but overall I definitely enjoyed it.


message 21: by Skye (new) - added it

Skye | 72 comments Thanks, Jacinta; I haven't ordered it yet.


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes Skye, it's really good!


message 23: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue K H (sky_bluez) | 68 comments I finished part II today also. People drop like flies in this book! I feel like no one is safe.

How about that grasshopper storm? Never heard of that before but I guess it's a real phenomena.

I'm really loving it still. I've already voted for it in the GAR. It's an all time favorite at this point.


message 24: by Pam (new) - rated it 5 stars

Pam (bluegrasspam) I just started part II! But, I’ve watched the first 3 episodes so I’m way ahead on the tv show! There are some details that are missing though that I’ll pick up in the book. I want to hold off on the final episode so I have some surprises left!


message 25: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 26, 2018 06:44AM) (new)

Sue wrote: " How about that grasshopper storm? Never heard of that before but I guess it's a real phenomena.'..."

I just posted Daily History in another group about that (scroll to the last item, bottom of the page)

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 26: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue K H (sky_bluez) | 68 comments Karen wrote: "Sue wrote: " How about that grasshopper storm? Never heard of that before but I guess it's a real phenomena.'..."

I just posted Daily History in another group about that (scroll to the last item, ..."


So creepy! I hate bugs. I'm so glad that the article said grasshopper swarms haven't been seen in the U.S. since the 1930's.


Diane Sue wrote: "I finished part II today also. People drop like flies in this book! I feel like no one is safe.

How about that grasshopper storm? Never heard of that before but I guess it's a real phenomena.

I'..."

I also just finished Part II. You are right - no one is safe!!! Hopefully things will calm down a little in Part III - but still remain interesting!


message 28: by NancyJ, Moderator (new) - added it

NancyJ (nancyjjj) | 1835 comments Mod
Jacinta wrote: "I just finished Part 2, and all I have to say is, [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I agree, if I had any sympathy for him at that point, it was lost when he said that.


message 29: by NancyJ, Moderator (last edited Jul 29, 2018 01:21PM) (new) - added it

NancyJ (nancyjjj) | 1835 comments Mod
I was too tired to read and watched some of the show. There are some differences in part 2. Roscoe (the deputy) had a very interesting encounter with a farm woman, that didn't happen in the show (unless I somehow missed it). Her proposal was funny.


message 30: by NancyJ, Moderator (last edited Aug 07, 2018 10:25PM) (new) - added it

NancyJ (nancyjjj) | 1835 comments Mod
Re prostitution. It seems that there were relatively few occupations open to women on the frontier. In one section there was a short mention of the large number of prostitutes in Kansas cities.* It's as though there wasn't much else a woman could do if she's alone, without a family or husband, or without an education. Some may have found the work easier than working a farm. And many young women did find husbands on this job. But I agree that it must change their view of life, their worth, and maybe the worth of their children. (At one time, bastard children had fewer legal rights as citizens, and they carried the shame of their birth.)

I'd like to talk about this a bit more at the end. I like some of similarities and contrasts between Elvira's and Lorena's lives and choices. I think the author set up an interesting parallel.

*If you're familiar with the musical Oklahoma, maybe you'll know what song was in my head the last two day after I read that.


message 31: by NancyJ, Moderator (new) - added it

NancyJ (nancyjjj) | 1835 comments Mod
Karen wrote: "Jacinta wrote: "I think it's interesting - and important - that Call often refuses to give people their proper names (especially Lorie and Newt)."

Also interesting when Gus observes [spoilers remo..."


Hmm. I didn't notice that, or I'm not there yet.


message 32: by Joy, Your Obedient Servant (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joy (jammons42) | 510 comments Mod
I just finished Part 2. Holy Smokes did not see that coming.


message 33: by Joy, Your Obedient Servant (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joy (jammons42) | 510 comments Mod
Jacinta wrote: "I just finished Part 2, and all I have to say is, [spoilers removed]"

Same, girl, same.


Blueberry (blueberry1) aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "People might like this:

https://youtu.be/oddN5Yc--8w"



That was interesting. Thanks.


aPriL does feral sometimes  (cheshirescratch) Parker wrote: "Early America was a tough place to be a woman. As a child, you were the property of your father (mothers had no rights to their children at all). When you married, you were the property of your hus..."

Agreed with everything in your post.

The average life expectancy in the 1800's, although I believe the years of 'Lonesome Dove' were around 1867-ish, was 37:

http://www.legacy.com/life-and-death/...

I read somewhere else the average Western man who married usually had three wives before he died. Most women died in childbirth, of course.

Anyone who somehow survived everything, they usually lived into their 70's. These folks must have definitely been tough survivors in both body and mind who probably had all sentimentality cauterized out of them from all of the deaths and shortages of everything needed to survive.

If only two children survived out of ten pregnancies past the age eight, and everyone buried two wives, or husbands, before turning thirty, and everyone saw many men missing limbs, teeth, eyes, from carelessness and ignorance, drunkeness and accidents it definitely makes most people practical and cautious about affection and resources.

Child labor was common. Five year olds were put to work caring for younger children, feeding animals, cooking, sweeping, helping with harvests. Schools were rare, and even if one was available, most kids attended infrequently.

Every town had one church and three saloons, two churches and six saloons, or three churches and nine saloons. Churches did not actually appear until respectable women showed up, and that was a rare thing. Most respectable middle-class women could not survive in the early West, and were under constant threat of rape.

It isn't polite to talk about it, but men must have a much stronger sex drive than women. Most sex offenders are men, most brothels serve men, most prostitutes serve men, and in EVERY culture for millennia brothels and prostitutes to serve a mostly male clientele have been an essential business. In the early West, most women living in the West were prostitutes or became prostitutes, because the demand was HUGE.

I think although the book follows a lot of male characters, the author most respects, and reserves his sorrow, for the women and children characters, trying to give readers an idea of how heroic some of them were, given their circumstances.

Alcohol often was the safest liquid to drink, btw. In the Middle Ages for example, parents gave babies alcohol first thing in the morning - not because they were ignorant, although there was that too, but because the water often was polluted with fecal matter. They did not know about germs or poop in the water being bad, but they knew that babies often died after drinking water.

Even today, many people in the world live in filth as hygiene practices are unknown. There also is not any way to practice hygiene in places without resources. Farmers swim in poop if they have animals and a dozen kids. The author describes how characters vomit, go unwashed for months, and are often drunk (drunks are notorious for fouling themselves while passed out).

Have any of you boarded a city bus, and a homeless man boards later who is clearly mentally ill as well? Once I smelled such a man, and he had dark brown gunk from the middle of his back down to his knees. He sat behind the driver. He cleared out the bus at the next stop. I had to stay, but I sat in the back. He rode to a neighborhood church which had a free lunch on Wednesdays, which obviously was his destination.

Can you imagine what Western prostitutes put up with? They are MY heroes, as I suspect they are of the author.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

Wow, April!


Parker | 204 comments My grandda on my Da's side was born in 1902, the third eldest of 11 (his youngest sister was younger than my Da, who was born in 1923). He told me that the boys were put to work plowing just as soon as they could reach up and grasp the plow handles. The girls just as soon as tbey could grasp a broom handle. This was in Western Kentucky.

As soon as I was old enough, he put me to work ("Them that don't work, don't eat" was his mantra). I really didn't mind, in spite of the hard work, because I got to be with he and my Da. And the payoff was socialising the Border Collie pups he raised. I officially became his assistant trainer when I was nine.

That side of the family very much believed in education. Many of my grandda's siblings became teachers, and he donated both land and money to start Murray State University (my Alma Mater. Twice).


message 39: by Joy, Your Obedient Servant (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joy (jammons42) | 510 comments Mod
Moving this to the past reads folder, but the thread will remain open for discussion.


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