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Members' Chat > Why is good wholesome romance rare in fantsy series?

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message 1: by BobJosh (new)

BobJosh | 15 comments I was searching for books like that, and couldn't find too many -already asked in recommendations, not looking for that here- so it got me thinking why is a happy ending romance so rare in most books with heavy fantasy themes? -magic, dragons,etc. The high fantasy kind of thing-
What is everyones opinion on this?


message 2: by Bill (new)

Bill | 197 comments Why have a nice happy couple when you can have a pointless love triangle.


message 3: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1323 comments Keep series interest drama going?


message 4: by Mimi (new)

Mimi (1stavenue) | 29 comments Because most authors can't write satisfying happy endings?


message 5: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments Definitely an interesting question. I admit that Iike the idea of this kind of ending but in the end, measure it by how the ending makes sense in the story's setting I guess a well-known example is Eragon - there was a decent explanation for why they went separate ways. And it was something that made many fans disappointed.

Some drama might be good but it does not necessarily lead to 'unhappy' ending or triangle that (imo) has even more potential for absurdness (the amount of WTF moments when I was reading The Mortal Instruments was too damn high). Even Harry Potter had some relationship drama in the later books, despite the happy ending.

Maybe they hope that by adding personal struggles, they can 'squeeze' the hero more, put him/her into an even worse spot and thus make it even harder. I don't really know. What I know is that I am usually the reader who hopes that they'll end up together, in a way as a reward for what they were through.

Side note: I could say something about this from the PoV of someone working on a fantasy story but I don't want to derail the thread or risk the mod's wrath. Maybe if you'd want to have that type of discussion as well, start another thread in the author section to ask those who write how they see it.


message 6: by Manisha (new)

Manisha | 4 comments It could be for several reasons:

1. The world is such that the only way there is a wholesome romance without conflict and a happy ending is if the characters in question weren't meant for great things. To be a hero requires sacrifice, and we mostly read about heroes.

2. As Tomas mentioned, it helps for development of character by adding personal struggles.

3. It could be an attempt to add realism to the plot because in life, very rarely is there a happy ending when relationships are concerned.

4. Unlike YA where the formula requires a happy ending, High Fantasy authors and readers mostly lean towards the gritty, poignant, satisfying endings. The romance could stay or go, but the plot... The plot needs to be the most important thing at the end of the day.

5. Writing a wholesome romance can derail the story. Especially when the separation works as a motivation for the protagonist.

6. And finally, (and I think that this is probably the main reason) very few fantasy authors can write romance. Unlike Outlander and Sword of Truth most fantasy authors are not great romance writers. Most can do adventure, but are uncomfortable writing romance. So, the best way to avoid it is to not write it.


message 7: by Jen (new)

Jen (jenlb) | 174 comments They're out there- Guy Gavriel Kay writes a lot of romantic couples in his fantasy. Not all of the couples get happily ever after and they certainly go through some horrendous struggles and complications, but there are some who succeed together and survive.

I go back and forth as to whether I even want happily ever after- so much of fantasy romance used to be based on Prince Charming and his poor/threatened beautiful girl, and that is very dated now for very good reasons.


message 8: by BobJosh (new)

BobJosh | 15 comments Thanks everyone for your comments.
You mentioned character development being a thing, but I think that should not really occur anymore at the very end of a series, since there wouldn't be any point in it.
A characters development should happen before the end, so we can see the results of it Imo.


message 9: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
I can think of lots of books where the couple ends up together, is that a happy ending though? One of my favorite relationships is a patient, gentle man who marries a patient, loving woman. Both have suffered for their families enormously, so that none of their actions can be viewed without their trauma. But they end up together, very much in love despite the shadow they both carry. Is that a happy ending?

Books need tension, by and large. It's either inter-personal or external. Either way, having someone come out completely unscathed, and still enough of the same person to love their partner (and be loved by their partner) is a tough sell in epic or hard fantasy. Maybe try looking up books in "light fantasy?" I haven't read them, but would Garden Spells or Swordspoint qualify?


message 10: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments In case of an internal source of the struggle, it'd be hard to make this kind of good end work and look believable.
In case of an external struggle, though, I can imagine a situation where the hero would turn to those close to him for comfort - which could then be a way to a happy ending, should they both survive.


message 11: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
Tomas wrote: "In case of an internal source of the struggle, it'd be hard to make this kind of good end work and look believable.
In case of an external struggle, though, I can imagine a situation where the hero..."


It depends! Like in a book I just read, the guy takes the better girl and they're happy. But he was tortured, she spent months with monsters, both are hunted...to get our "kiss in the sunset, violins playing" moment we just had to ignore all that. And that's sort of strange too, yeah? "I know you just read this whole book and felt each pain the character did. NOW EVERYTHING'S FINE!!" I mean...I guess? It's nice to know they're safe, but it is a liiittle confusing to me that they'd both be totally normal and still feel good with each other after what they went through.

Now, in light fantasy, the stakes tend to be lower or the outcomes funnier, so it's more believable when they have their happy moment. I bet that genre would yield more than classic medieval epic.

(btw, Marco, I have a lot of books that fit the tone, but not the setting. Or perhaps hint at a third love interest but never make a big deal about it. If we're just talking about a romance that builds and ends happily together, there are lots of those! It's the other qualifiers that made it harder to think of.)


message 12: by Pixiegirl105 (new)

Pixiegirl105 | 113 comments Regarding relationships, the author has to be good at writing any type of relationship. Friend to friend, mother/father to son/daughter, strangers, lovers, etc. Many of the ones who have the most issues writing the lovers' relationship usually are actually struggling with the others as well. It is like they wrote the full fantasy novel and then went "oh wait, people should be talking here." Then it is awkward.

I also think it really depends on who you are reading for the series. If you're primarily reading YA fantasy then there is definitely going to be that whole dramatic romance going on, because they are writing for the readers. We all know that being a YA is very dramatic. In YA, the Throne of Glass series by Sarah Maas does okay in the romance dept. People love, lose, and move on in decently healthy manners.

For adult writing, I think Robin Hobb does well with the romance. I personally like ones that don't always have the romance thing going on: C.S. Friedman comes to mind with the Coldfire Trilogy. Rachel Aaron with her Eli Monpress books is another that comes to mind. I'm sure I could think of a few more. However, these are the female authors that come to mind. With the males, I think sometimes they fall down when they try to state what the female is thinking (This is the reason I stopped reading Wheel of Time series. The girls and guys were just echoing the exact wording of each other in their minds.) In the male realm of fantasy, Brent Weeks Lightbringer Trilogy is pretty good at capturing the intricacies of relationships. Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles are decent in that respect as well. (His 3rd may or may not ever be written as a warning, but the rest of the books are good enough even without the last one.)


message 13: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments Allison wrote: "It depends! Like in a book I just read, the guy takes the better girl and they're happy. But he was tortured, she spent months with monsters, both are hunted...to get our "kiss in the sunset, violins playing" moment we just had to ignore all that. And that's sort of strange too, yeah? "I know you just read this whole book and felt each pain the character did. NOW EVERYTHING'S FINE!!" I mean...I guess? It's nice to know they're safe, but it is a liiittle confusing to me that they'd both be totally normal and still feel good with each other after what they went through."

What I meant is the situation where the pair (at that point probably not yet fully pair) goes through some struggle together and the shared experience - especially if they had to rely on each other to survive - could bring them even closer. Maybe finally bring them together when they are both relieved that they passed through and the shared pain tempers (curse me for this blacksmithing allegory) their bond, so to say.

Of course, it can go the other way. Both can happen and it depends on many factors, including the characters and their personality, which option happens. And as you said, the important part is to make sure it all fits the setting, that it makes sense in the grand scheme of things (the story as a whole).


message 14: by Chris (new)

Chris | 1046 comments Is it possible that the romance genre and the fantasy genre have partitioned readers - i.e., people who want happily-ever-after get it by reading romance, and people who don't want HEA read fantasy and other genres? I don't read romance so it's not a rhetorical question. Romance has a fantasy/paranormal subgenre. My understanding is that modern genres are used as a way to match readers with the experiences they want from reading.


message 15: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
Tomas wrote: "Allison wrote: "It depends! Like in a book I just read, the guy takes the better girl and they're happy. But he was tortured, she spent months with monsters, both are hunted...to get our "kiss in t..."

Oohh, I see. Yeah! There are definitely those :)


message 16: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments To Chris: For those seeking romance as the main story element, yes, there are subgenres with that as the main focus. Still, even in books focused more on the main plot, it can include relationships of varying intensity and those can have some variety. It can make a story more relatable if the hero has more 'common' aspects of his/her life (like romance) than just the bad guy (and his minions). It can be more subtle than in the romance-heavy subgenres but show more about the character (priorities, choices,...) than we'd see if said character was a 'lone wolf'.


message 17: by Renee (new)

Renee (elenarenee) | 31 comments I loved the Dragon Riders of Pern. I wonder if it is such a favorite of mine because the romance did end hapiily


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments I love Romance in Fantasy and no longer get enough of it. It used to be pretty normal and then it started to disappear.

In reality, it makes perfect sense: life threatening situations encourage people to fall in love. You just went to hell and back with someone - why not trust them with your hoo-ha? There has been tests that prove that situations that cause large amounts of adrenaline can tap into and encourage "love." And people fall in love, have relationships, get married and have children every day. Why not in Fantasy?


message 19: by Mark (new)

Mark Kloss (markkloss) | 15 comments I agree with a lot of the comments here, when the stakes are as high as they are in high fantasy, perhaps the total happy ending can seem jarring. Not fitting with everything the characters have gone through.

I feel like there must be many fantasy books that do have a romantic happy ending, but now you've got me thinking about it nothing is coming to mind!


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Mark wrote: "I agree with a lot of the comments here, when the stakes are as high as they are in high fantasy, perhaps the total happy ending can seem jarring. Not fitting with everything the characters have go..."

Why is a happy ending jarring? I don't understand that.

Unless we are only speaking about author skill?


message 21: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
MrsJoseph wrote: "Mark wrote: "I agree with a lot of the comments here, when the stakes are as high as they are in high fantasy, perhaps the total happy ending can seem jarring. Not fitting with everything the chara..."

Well, like with my tortured, hunted, war-torn book. They end happy together but I'm not entirely sure how. He could hardly walk, she'd lost her whole life, but we ignored that in professions of love. It was enjoyable, but maybe not a super honest ending.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments But is that really true? Would it have been better for them to go their separate ways? Do you honestly think those people would rather different mates or no mates at all? Most people I know and know of want mates.

The most evil guy who tortures puppies wants a mate - and guess what? There's usually someone out there for them.

Sometimes I feel that readers want to pretend that human nature changes because Fantasy! Sci-Fi! but I don't. (Unless they aren't human/oid, of course.)

I know a couple of people who are asexual - they don't want sex but they do want emotional companionship....


message 23: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (last edited Jul 12, 2018 09:48AM) (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
MrsJoseph wrote: "But is that really true? Would it have been better for them to go their separate ways? Do you honestly think those people would rather different mates or no mates at all? Most people I know and kno..."

Oh, I'm not saying they wouldn't go together! I'm saying the ending being a happy one might not be true. Like...I think they have a lot of trauma and resentment they'd have to work through. That's why I was asking what the definition of a happy ending is. Is it just that love is there? Yeah, I think that happens a lot in fantasy. Is it all wrapped up in a neat bow, their path clear before them, their hopes realized and their faith in each other unshaken? That seems...harder in adult epic fantasy.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments I can see your point.

But are there ever any real HEAs? It's a book construct created by fairy tales.

My husband and I have been together for forever and ever. My friends who are single like to pretend I have the classic HEA and everything is perfect. But reality says that's untrue. We work on our marriage every.single.day. And you do, too. It's what we all do when we feel something is worth the work and effort.

In my mind, that's a true HEA. It's knowing the future is uncertain but you've found someone to walk that uncertain path with you. It's the person you trust will give you that boost up when the shit hits the fan. I've always felt that people who life has rocked the hardest deserve this the most.

I think the removal of romance from Fantasy dampened my excitement for it. I read this one book where the entire book was this guy chasing a troll who had stolen his love. The whole freaking book was full of death and destruction and fraught with danger and sadness. Then, in the end, the damn girl is killed and that's the end. I was infuriated!!! HOW DARE this fucker drag me face down through the worst shitfest he could find and then just leave me there?? Bloody and sad and depressed. I thought the book was very well written but I'll never read another book by that author again.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: ""

lolol

true, true


message 27: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
MrsJoseph wrote: "I can see your point.

But are there ever any real HEAs? It's a book construct created by fairy tales.

My husband and I have been together for forever and ever. My friends who are single like to..."


Aach! That's sad :(

Yeah, I'm not sure. Like when I think of happy romances, I can picture Leesa and F'lar who um... (view spoiler) and Sorcha and Red (view spoiler). Happy! But not "wholesome," in the sense I attribute to, say, the end of the movie version of Stardust or the movie version of the Princess Bride. The book versions are also more ambivalent on that front.

Not to say I can't think of any, but I would say it's less common for authors not to hint, at least, that their relationship has been sorely tested.


message 28: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1323 comments Dreamsnake which I just finished. it is not really fantasy although it could feel like it (horses etc) very grown-up view of sex (mostly) and relationships.


message 29: by CBRetriever (new)

CBRetriever | 4625 comments I'm trying to think of a fantasy book (except the ones that are part of a trilogy or never ending series) where the romance didn't end with at least the main couple still together. And even in the ones that don't there's often an implied "sometime in the future..."

That said, I tend to not read books where romance is the main theme even if they are fantasy books. And I'm not a fan of paranormal romances at all.


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) | 2674 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "In reality, it makes perfect sense: life threatening situations encourage people to fall in love. You just went to hell and back with someone - why not trust them with your hoo-ha? There has been tests that prove that situations that cause large amounts of adrenaline can tap into and encourage "love." And people fall in love, have relationships, get married and have children every day. Why not in Fantasy? "


I'm always skeptical of the long-term possibilities of these kinds of relationships.

I mean, I totally buy people being brought together because of high-octane circumstances. I just don't know how that translates into a life of normal routine once those circumstances are over.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm always skeptical of the long-term possibilities of these kinds of relationships.

I mean, I totally buy people being brought together because of high-octane circumstances. I just don't know how that translates into a life of normal routine once those circumstances are over. "


Depends on what "routine" is for that couple.


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) | 2674 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "Depends on what "routine" is for that couple. "

True enough.

I suppose I always think of an acquaintance of mine who had a bad case of "loves the idea of being in love" syndrome. He really loved the feelings of first romance, all the butterflies and adrenaline and hormones, but once things started to get settled and he didn't feel that "spark" anymore he would lose interest and start looking elsewhere...

But I digress.


message 33: by Trike (last edited Jul 12, 2018 10:56AM) (new)

Trike I’m pretty sure the right answer is the obvious one: drama.

Conflict creates drama, and interpersonal conflict between romantic partners is low-hanging fruit. We’ve all experienced it, and fully half the TV series and movies we watch feature it front and center. “Will they or won’t they?” is the simplest way to create tension.

Like Renee (#17), I also enjoy McCaffrey’s Dragonriders of Pern because F’lar and Lessa end up as a committed couple, but getting there is definitely fraught with drama and tension and will-they-or-won’t-they, and, once they settle in as a power couple, Jaxom takes center stage and he goes through those exact same emotional trials until he, too, finds someone for his HEA.

I’ve only read the fourth book in the series, but Mary Robinette Kowal’s Glamourist Histories series features a couple who are living their HEA story while having adventures together. Although Kowal has based those books on Jane Austen, she gets past the initial romance of the main characters’ relationship and has them settle in as a couple, which I thought was cool. Instead of introducing all these artificial reasons to create tension within the relationship, she adds exterior forces which serve to bond them closer.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Depends on what "routine" is for that couple. "

True enough.

I suppose I always think of an acquaintance of mine who had a bad case of "loves the idea of being in love" syndrome..."


I have a friend like that, he's never been able to settle down. But he's had lots of dates and romances, etc.


message 35: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 156 comments I think it kind of depends on where you draw the lines between ‘fantasy’ and ‘romance’. I can think of some romantic fantasies and some fantasy romances, but they’re often regarded as being in a slightly separate genre.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments I there is a distinct difference between romance (life) and Romance (genre).

Romance (genre) has a specific set of rules and guidelines that make it Romance.

Romance (life) is just romantic situations/possibilities/outcomes. Fantasy and romance live happily together. I would never say the Belgariad or the Mallorean are Romance (genre) but there sure is romance in that series. People get married and have babies and even love their partners. And no one would ever call LotR a Romance but it, too, has romance in it. In fact, having romance in Fantasy was pretty standard for most of my life - until the last 10-15 years or so (maybe a bit more?) that it has started to taper off.

Now we get GrimDark. Yay. So excited. I so love the fact that I no longer get a couple and instead get rape and torture. So fun. (sarcasm)


message 37: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
MrsJoseph wrote: "I there is a distinct difference between romance (life) and Romance (genre).

Romance (genre) has a specific set of rules and guidelines that make it Romance.

Romance (life) is just romantic situ..."


lolol. You've missed an entire evolution! Now we have babies that are the products of that rape and/or relationships that are used for or have been constructing that torture.

Romance isn't dead in grimdark at all!!

*grabs a Harry Potter and goes to cry under the stairs*


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments O_O

Nope. Not for me.

I avoid all of that like the plague. And I keep brain bleach just.in.case.


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) | 2674 comments Trike wrote: "I’ve only read the fourth book in the series, but Mary Robinette Kowal’s Glamourist Histories series features a couple who are living their HEA story while having adventures together. Although Kowal has based those books on Jane Austen, she gets past the initial romance of the main characters’ relationship and has them settle in as a couple, which I thought was cool. Instead of introducing all these artificial reasons to create tension within the relationship, she adds exterior forces which serve to bond them closer. "

I really enjoy this series, overall. While they have couple issues from time to time, they seem to be of the more realistic variety.

I think a lot of books and TV shows make the mistake of thinking a lot of their drama has to be inter-personal drama, and it gets to the point where I'm tired of the writers finding excuses to insert pointless drama into a relationship.

I stopped watching Castle and Bones and a lot of other shows because all of the drama became internal and the external drama was either barely existent, or completely ridiculous.

Supernatural crosses into this territory far too often, and I completely quite Arrow this season because of it.

(I know this isn't a TV thread, but that's what came to mind as examples.)

Back to books...

I read a lot of fantasy romance and not a lot of epic fantasy anymore, so I suppose I don't notice the dearth of wholesome relationships.

I mean, while YA has an overabundance of love triangle nonsense, there are still some good ones out there, imo, that have good relationships, too.


message 40: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Trike wrote: "I’ve only read the fourth book in the series, but Mary Robinette Kowal’s Glamourist Histories series features a couple who are living their HEA story while having adventures together...."

You should share some of the non-triangular ones! Marco has another thread looking for recos here:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 41: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
(Also, I totally agree, Colleen. A little bit of human interaction, fine. When it trends towards soap opera though, I'm out!)


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Yall are making me want to go read some good Romances! I have been reading mostly fantasy lately and I'm missing that interpersonal push and pull.

There's one series I totally want to read because shiny covers!!! but the characters are all based in some way on spiders. ! !!!!! !!

A Hint of Frost A Hint of Frost (Araneae Nation, #1) by Hailey Edwards

I love these covers.


I hate spiders.


message 43: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "I think the removal of romance from Fantasy dampened my excitement for it. I read this one book where the entire book was this guy chasing a troll who had stolen his love. The whole freaking book was full of death and destruction and fraught with danger and sadness. Then, in the end, the damn girl is killed and that's the end. I was infuriated!!! HOW DARE this fucker drag me face down through the worst shitfest he could find and then just leave me there?? Bloody and sad and depressed. I thought the book was very well written but I'll never read another book by that author again."

Well, I was reading The Wolf of the North and the sequels. (view spoiler)

I am not into outright romances. But romantic relationships, especially if they are believable or relatable (preferably both), give something to the story as long as they don't overtake the main fantasy theme (which is easily done by love triangles). It shows that the heroes are just like us, that they long for a close company, someone to share the joys and perils with, a shoulder to cry on or to be cried on. It is even more believable if it's not really perfect and the relationship faces some challenges - especially if caused by the main plot.


message 44: by Tomas (new)

Tomas Grizzly | 444 comments colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I mean, I totally buy people being brought together because of high-octane circumstances. I just don't know how that translates into a life of normal routine once those circumstances are over."

That reminds me of the beginning of Tranformers: Revenge of the Fallen movie.
Summary of the dialogue:
Sam's dad: you're not different from other pairs
Sam: no, we just found a race of sentient robots and helped them save the world.
Sam's dad: won't be a topic forever

Now, where am I going with this? The moment that brings them together through perils means a chance. It's just about that: a chance and what they do with it, not just at that moment, but after as well. They need to find something to keep them together once the danger passes. If the moments together show them that they have something that keeps them together, then it can turn into a believable and lasting relationship.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Tomas wrote: "Well, I was reading The Wolf of the North and the sequels."

Really??? That's just shitty. Ugh.


I agree with you. I think genres are created for a reason and I dislike it when I expect one and get the other.


message 46: by Beth (new)

Beth (rosewoodpip) | 1685 comments Allison wrote: "I haven't read them, but would Garden Spells or Swordspoint qualify? "

Swordspoint only kind of qualifies. I'd say they were HFN rather than HEA, because there is (view spoiler).


message 47: by Karen (last edited Jul 13, 2018 11:59AM) (new)

Karen Chuplis | 4 comments Renee wrote: "I loved the Dragon Riders of Pern. I wonder if it is such a favorite of mine because the romance did end hapiily"

Hi, I'm new here and I hope you don't all mind me stepping in. I too thought of the Pern series with this question. Also, The Blue Sword comes to mind. I think the romances are pretty successful in these because they tend to be more of the gradual mutual admiration type and are rarely focused on but more of a side effect of working together. Which are, to me, a much more satisfying type of story anyway.

One thing I do dislike though and see sometimes especially in a series, is a kind of drift in that direction but a deliberate non-resolution and/or external device causing a mutual couple to not be able to be together because of . I mean, just follow the characters. If it doesn't exist it doesn't exist, if it happens, let it happen. But pick a road. Thanks for allowing my .02


message 48: by Karen (new)

Karen Chuplis | 4 comments Renee wrote: "I loved the Dragon Riders of Pern. I wonder if it is such a favorite of mine because the romance did end hapiily"

I'm new here so I hope it is ok if I step in. Pern books also came to mind to me as well as The Blue Sword. But I think all the relationships work because they are not the focus but kind of a mutual admiration that grows up through working together.

I don't like it however when genre books kind of hint or drift toward forming a relationship but then an artificial reason is put in to keep them apart, IMO basically to keep it from being labeled a romance. I mean, just follow the characters. If it works go with them, or else, just don't really go there. I see this in long series very often as a way to keep a main protagonist in a state of struggle. It seems...unnecessary. Thank you for letting me add my .02


message 49: by Trike (new)

Trike Karen wrote: "Renee wrote: "I loved the Dragon Riders of Pern. I wonder if it is such a favorite of mine because the romance did end hapiily"

Hi, I'm new here and I hope you don't all mind me stepping in. I too..."


What?! How dare you! Why, da noive of entering an open discussion in a public forum! Who do you think you are, a human being with the same rights as every other human being?

...what’s that? It is? She is? Oh.

Hey, Karen, ‘sup?


Karen wrote: "One thing I do dislike though and see sometimes especially in a series, is a kind of drift in that direction but a deliberate non-resolution and/or external device causing a mutual couple to not be able to be together because of . "

Despite the missing final noun, I agree with that. It so often feels forced, so that readers can see the hand of the author obviously manipulating things in order to artificially and artlessly perpetuate the tension. It just feels fake.


Karen wrote: "Thanks for allowing my .02”

No problem. I hereby grant you this boon!

...what? I *don’t* have that power? Well, that’s a fine howdya-do.


message 50: by Allison, Fairy Mod-mother (new)

Allison Hurd | 13034 comments Mod
Welcome, Karen! I agree, when the tension makes sense it's fine, otherwise it feels forced. :)


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