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A Crown of Swords (The Wheel of Time, #7)
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A Crown of Swords > July Week 3: Ch 19 - 31 Spoiler Discussion

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Jade (Bedtime Bookworm) (bedtimebookworm) | 124 comments Mod
Remember these are spoilery discussions - so stay away unless you've finished this section! Also, please keep spoilers to the things we know in this section of the book.

What are your thoughts on this section of A Crown of Swords?

I'll update this post with the chapter summaries once I've read the section! :)

Happy reading!

Scott Flicker | 107 comments I really loved chapter 31. One thing I don't think i picked on previous reads is that Lan probably slept with Myrelle (mentioned in previous chapter, also seems to be confirmed by Robert Jordan on the internet) and once Nynaeve realized it that's when she started slapping him. Anyways it was also great to see Nynaeve finally get through her blockage.

message 3: by Mo (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mo (weneed_mobrown) | 26 comments I agree with Scott, it was wonderful to finally read that Nynaeve got past her block!

The chapters about Mat and Tylin were also very funny to read. It seems like he is in the same situation that Perrin found himself in with Faile!

message 4: by Donald (new)

Donald Trail | 34 comments When I first read this section... must have been 1997 or so, I felt the parts with Matt and Tylin were funny. I also didn't fully understand what happened to Lan.

Now that I'm much older... I can see the darker tones of what is going on here. I don't think it is by accident that Jordan put these two events so close to each other in the same book. Matt is essentially raped at knife point by Tylin. As a reader I think this section is set up to kind of make us laugh. Then it is heavily implied that Lan has been raped by Myrelle. She uses the warder bond that has been given to her without his permission to command him into physical acts.

Now you see that because Matt is set up as a womanizer we don't immediately feel sympathy for his situation, despite the fact that he himself feels shame and guilt for the situation. But after reading the section about Lan, it should make us think. Tylin is a woman 40+ and a powerful Queen. Matt is an 18 year old boy who would be a high schooler in our world. This seems eerily similar to the headlines we see today where a teacher is caught raping a young boy student.

Yet, the initial reaction of most readers is to find the situation funny. I know that I did. I think Jordan put these two situations here to make us think.

Scott Flicker | 107 comments Interesting observation. One thing about wheel of time is you have a world where only women can use magic safely which gives them a much more equal or even greater power than men. So increased sexual abuse against men is a consequence of this fantasy world. That’s one thing I like about the series. Build the world then build the characters shaped by the world instead of just throwing modern or historical character traits into it.

message 6: by K. (new) - rated it 5 stars

K. | 7 comments If Mat had done the same to Tylin.no one would have thought it was funny. But because he is a man and Mat, it was ignored. He wasn't even allowed to leave the city or choose what to wear. Tylin raped him, held him in Ebou Dar against his wishes and made him into a laughing stock. Everybody knew what was happening and it was still thought okay.

message 7: by Donald (new)

Donald Trail | 34 comments I believe one of the big themes Jordan was playing with in these novels is gender reversal. This book was written not long after the Anita Hill hearings on sexual harassment. I remember that period and most people had decided that men in positions of power should be held more accountable for this kind of behavior. Jordan flips the genders to so that we are forced to evaluate our own biases. It's really brilliant writing that I don't think many people have truly appreciated. All of Matt's commentary on this is dripping with feelings of powerlessness and shame. Elayne is meant to be the modern reader. At first she laughs at the situation and thinks he is getting a taste of his own medicine... she even blames the looks he gives Tylin... telling him to practice in a mirror. This is not so different than those people who find a man they like is guilty of this and decide the woman enticed him with skimpy clothes.

However, a short paragraph later Elayne is apologizing for laughing and is offering to help the situation. As readers I believe this is the response he intends us to have. To initially laugh it off, but then think about it and consider it deeply.

I also think that Jordan used this event to move Matt's character in a particular direction. However, I don't remember that very well

Scott Flicker | 107 comments The Anita Hill hearings were a big thing back in 1991 or so then the issue got buried but not forgotten for 25 years until the #metoo movement. I’m sure Jordan was influenced but he is also showing women are human too and given the power position can commit the same crime that men are typically associated with in the real world.

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