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Miscellaneous/Technical > Greek Keyboard Issues

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message 1: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (last edited Jul 03, 2018 06:15PM) (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
TYPING GREEK ON AN ENGLISH KEYBOARD

As a result of some tips from Rodney Jones of this Goodreads group, I was able to download the Greek keyboard for my Microsoft Word 2010 program today, and I figured out, through some trial and error, how to use it. Here are some instructions in the event other group members wish to do this. It should also work in a similar way with adding other languages.

First you need to download the Greek keyboard language from Microsoft. This can be done through the "Region and Languages" preferences in your settings. (If you are using a program other than Word 2010, there might be a different procedure, but you should be able to figure it out.) Be careful, however, that you don't inadvertently change the default language setting in doing this. I accidentally somehow changed my default language to another language, and I later could not figure out how to change it back to English because everything was in the other language. My wife helped me fix this after I rebooted the computer.

I discovered that, once in the Greek keyboard, most Greek letters appear when one types the English letter corresponding to their initial sound. I also found that the program utilizes English letters not otherwise found in Greek to create Greek letters having no English cognate. Thus:

η = h
θ = u
ξ = j
υ = y
φ = f
ψ = c
ω = v
ς = ;;
; = q

The last two of the foregoing list are different from the ones preceding them. I could not find any keyboard stroke for the Greek final ς, so I created an autocorrect keyboard shortcut (;;) for the final ς. The Greek character ";" is, of course, the Greek question mark. I found that this mark was created when I typed "q" on the Greek keyboard.

(7/3/2018 Note: I downloaded Microsoft Office 365 today, and this version automatically types ς when it is at the end of a lower-case word. However, I find that this works only in Word and not when I type directly into Goodreads.)

Greek accents are difficult to reproduce when using an English-based keyboard, and I will not attempt to do so when I am not copying and pasting. As Rodney has observed, Greek words were not accented in Aristotle's time. When quoting more than a few words of classical Greek in the original Greek characters, probably the easiest procedure is to access the work being quoted on the Perseus website and then copy and paste the quoted material into your document. Note, however, that, in converting from Perseus, Goodreads transforms eta (η) into nu (ν), and Goodreads may have other such incorrect transformations that I have not yet noticed. Accordingly, when pasting from Perseus into Goodreads (either directly from Perseus or indirectly from a Word document), be sure to proofread and manually correct any stray errors that appear on Goodreads.

Perseus is the only website of which I am currently aware that has classical Greek texts in the original Greek characters. If someone is aware of another such online website, I would appreciate their advising me of same.

(revised 7/3/2018)


message 2: by Feliks (last edited Jul 09, 2018 06:48AM) (new)

Feliks (dzerzhinsky) | 1518 comments Bug report

The 'search discussion topics' tool is not working lately--not in this group, nor any other group.

For instance, if you search discussion posts here for a really common term like 'speech' or 'free speech' or 'Derrida' you get zero results.

I'm in contact with the Goodreads crack support programming staff team to alert them to the issue.

If anyone here sees that 'search' actually does work, this indicates it is a problem local to my account or my browser or my platform, so please let me know if that's so.

This would alter the nature of my bug report to the crack Goodreads support programming staff team.


message 3: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
Feliks wrote: "Bug report

The 'search discussion topics' tool is not working lately--not in this group, nor any other group.

For instance, if you search discussion posts here for a really common term like 'spe..."


When I do a search within this group for "Plato" or "Aristotle," I get only a couple of posts. Since I know there are many more posts mentioning these names, I gather that it is not working properly or that they are just beginning to fix it.


message 4: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
I believe the "search discussion posts" feature is now working correctly.


message 5: by Zachary (new)

Zachary (zacts) | 14 comments I hope that this is the appropriate place to post this, but here is a resource that has been helpful to me for inputting ancient Greek inside of the vim text editor on Linux: https://circuitousroot.com/language/c.... <-- This is how I type Greek with all of the accents and everything. The link was difficult for me to find, but I hope it is useful to others. The way of inserting Greek in vim seems to be similar in other Linux text editors, but with different prefix keys of course, since vim is a modal editor. Please do let me know if this is not the place to post this.


message 6: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
Zachary wrote: "I hope that this is the appropriate place to post this, but here is a resource that has been helpful to me for inputting ancient Greek inside of the vim text editor on Linux: https://circuitousroot..."

Yes, this is an appropriate place, as indicated in my first message above.

Question: For those of us (including myself) who don't have Linux, is this link usable?


message 7: by Zachary (new)

Zachary (zacts) | 14 comments Alan wrote: "Zachary wrote: "I hope that this is the appropriate place to post this, but here is a resource that has been helpful to me for inputting ancient Greek inside of the vim text editor on Linux: https:..."

It is usable if you have gVim on MS Windows or if you use vim on Apple. I will try to find links for other Linux-based text editors as well, some of which should be available on MS Windows and Apple (I will also actually test this out as well). Note, vim is installed on Apple by default, as Apple is a UNIX-based system. It is a standard text editor.


message 8: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
Thanks, Zachary. I have Windows 10 but have no idea what gVim is.


message 9: by Zachary (last edited Nov 21, 2018 09:40PM) (new)

Zachary (zacts) | 14 comments Alan wrote: "TYPING GREEK ON AN ENGLISH KEYBOARD

As a result of some tips from Rodney Jones of this Goodreads group, I was able to download the Greek keyboard for my Microsoft Word 2010 program today, and I fi..."


You need the Greek Polytonic keyboard layout. Polytonic gives you the ancient Greek letters and accents. On Windows 10, to activate the Greek Polytonic keyboard, you install the Greek keymap as described in your post above. You then click the [Options] button on the Greek Ελληνικά keyboard language pack in the Region & Language settings menu. When you are in the Options menu, you click on [+] Add a keyboard. Then select the Greek Polytonic layout and delete the standard Greek layout. You should be able to then use the following guide on how to insert ancient Greek: http://www.dramata.com/Ancient%20poly... <-- an image of the keyboard layout is on page two of the PDF. To insert an ending sigma ς, you just type w.


message 10: by Zachary (last edited Nov 21, 2018 09:39PM) (new)

Zachary (zacts) | 14 comments Zachary wrote: "Alan wrote: "Zachary wrote: "I hope that this is the appropriate place to post this, but here is a resource that has been helpful to me for inputting ancient Greek inside of the vim text editor on ..."

The Greek Polytechnic layout is what the Linux vim article uses, and the layout is available on MS Windows as well by default; it's just a bit tricky to setup. I am willing to help with any of this.


message 11: by Zachary (new)

Zachary (zacts) | 14 comments Alan wrote: "Thanks, Zachary. I have Windows 10 but have no idea what gVim is."

Sorry, gVim is the graphical user interface to the text editor vim. gVim is also available on MS Windows. Here is the wikipedia article on vim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(te.... It is a modal editor, so it is completely different from any windows editor. It has a huge learning curve, but it allows for ultra-efficient editing. I do NOT recommend learning it, unless you want to spend months learning how to use it. Many software developers use it due to its efficiency. It took me a long time to find the Greek keymap tutorial, and I got a reply to my Introductions post from someone who knows Linux and UNIX, so I thought I might just post it here if it might be of use to anyone.


message 12: by Alan, Founding Moderator and Author (new)

Alan Johnson (alanejohnson) | 4347 comments Mod
Zachary wrote: "It has a huge learning curve, but it allows for ultra-efficient editing. I do NOT recommend learning it, unless you want to spend months learning how to use it. "

Thank you, Zachary, for all the interesting information. Given my age (over 70) and other demands on my time, I don't have "months learning how to use it." I can type all the Greek letters with the system I identified in post 1 above. As explained there, I can also reproduce the accents when quoting from an ancient Greek text by copying and pasting from Perseus, though Perseus doesn't always work correctly when pasting into Goodreads. See also this website. Additionally, accents were not added to the Greek language until the third century BCE and did not become standard until the Middle Ages. Accordingly, Plato, Aristotle, and authors of the classical and earlier periods did not themselves use accent marks. The foregoing procedures will work for my purposes. I understand, however, that you and others may find it important to be able to reproduce the accent marks without copying and pasting.


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