Poldark Saga - Winston Graham discussion

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TV adaptation > Season 4 - Episode 8

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message 1: by Tanya, Moderator/Hostess (new)

Tanya | 640 comments Mod
Welcoming comments for Season 4 - Episode 8 (2018)


message 2: by Faith (new)

Faith | 60 comments Hats off to the cast!


message 3: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments It was an amazing episode dragging me from one strong feeling to another. It was much better than I expected but I felt confused by the flashbacks and would have liked that precious time used for more detail of the story at the end of the book. However, I have to say that DH has done well this series.


message 4: by Val (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Very good Ms. Horsfield, putting the love back into the Love Story. I was pleased with Demelza's response to Ross regarding her feelings of comparisons 'twix Hugh and Elizabeth.


message 5: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Poldark Lite .... :))


message 6: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Overall I think this series was excellent. The final episode could have been improved by leaving out Morwenna being chased by Harry and the dogs as she was already traumatised by her encounter with George. More time was needed at the end for Ross and Demelza to talk. Ken - I don't agree with your comment as overall I think DH produced a much better quality series this time. She clearly wanted to tug at the heart strings throughout series 4 and she succeeded with me.


message 7: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Overall I think this series was excellent. The final episode could have been improved by leaving out Morwenna being chased by Harry and the dogs as she was already traumatised by her encounter with..."
Stella, I missed what DH left out..... the finale seemed like a whirlwind to get everyone on screen....... Where was Caroline's talk with Ross?


message 8: by Sara (new)

Sara Lag | 8 comments I agree with Stella. Great job all around. Series 4 is my fave so far.


message 9: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Val wrote: "Very good Ms. Horsfield, putting the love back into the Love Story. I was pleased with Demelza's response to Ross regarding her feelings of comparisons 'twix Hugh and Elizabeth."

There was so much happening, it hasn't all sunk in yet. I need another day at least before I can recover and think straight. A few first impressions were very positive but also confusing.

In the episode, Ross spent more time with Elizabeth than Demelza, yet at the end Demelza understood that his depth of feeling for Elizabeth was far greater than hers had been for Hugh.

I wish Demelza had told Ross that he owned her heart two years previously and they might have had a much better time of it during the series. But Ross running away to London didn't help her.

The twenty year flash back ( so AT doesn't mind being made up to look 20 years younger then) set up Ross' 'What more do you want George? speech. That sounded to me that Ross was still more than a bit miffed that he hadn't succeeded with Elizabeth, so where does that leave Demelza?

Am I right in thinking that Dwight was just trying to cheer up Demelza when he mentioned her part in the London duel? If he meant it, I wouldn't trust him as a doctor. She did regret leaving Ross in London and told Ross, but, like Stella, I wish there had been time for a much longer heart to heart talk between Ross and Demelza. It was that blink and you missed it issue again.

There was no clue at the end about what was coming next so we will have to wait and see. This series has been much better than the previous one by using TAT as the core and only including minor changes. The cast have been as brilliant as ever.


message 10: by Val (last edited Jul 30, 2018 10:37AM) (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Ken wrote: "Poldark Lite .... :))" Trev wrote: "There was so much happening,"
Yes, Ken I agree, it was Lite, but in the end there was Light. Not like the ending in Season 3, which left most of us in the dark, angry and disgruntled with the writer. There was much I'd of liked to have seen, such as Caroline's conversation with Ross on the way back to Cornwall. But alas there was a tender interlude between Demelza and Ross. I would have liked to have seen the Winston Graham's interchange between Drake and Morwenna when she first arrived after leaving the Whitworth household. But I really liked the interlude with Demelza finally telling Ross that he was always number one in her heart.

Like you Trev, it went way to fast for me to grasp much detail. For example, I do not recall the conversation between Dwight and Demelza regarding the duel. However, I did like the explanation Ross gave regarding his wish that the killing would have been between he and Armitage. It was too bad he killed the wrong man.


message 11: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments In many ways DH went much further the WG did. First while we ALL loved Demelza declarations through out series 4, including her dismissal of Ross’s elevation of her grief at the loss of Hugh, none of it was in the book. She never reassured Ross that she had chosen him over Hugh although many of use found passages that we thought made that clear. All she ever said to Ross was that Hugh entered her heart where before there only Was him and it was over. Ross says because he is dead and she says that all she can say it’s over. A far cry from what was said last night or in episode 3 and 2.

The whole affair including her declaration last night that while Hugh had touched her heart but only Ross owned her heart was completely foretold by Demelza at the end of episode 7 last year. She almost did exactly what she told Ross she wanted to do. She loved another just for a day. She did not care if that was enough for the other but thought it would be enough for her because, using the same words she did last night, knew who owned her heart. She told Ross then that if he were patient she would look desire him again, which she now does. The only thing that did not go according to that game plan was the heartache of betraying Ross and not being able to giveHugh what he desired.

For Hugh while he got a roll in the grass with his friends wife, he certainly never owed her even for an afternoon “body and sole.” The first thing he thinks about after taking her was this was better than I thought it would be and when can we do it again The object of his love is thinking “how hope he never talks about this again, how do I get back to Ross and how am I going to explain this to him.” She burns his love letter and at the first opportunity tells him she does not what to meet with him again. And the fool thinks he possessed her body and sole. The day he dies she cannot find the word to describe her feelings for him she but it is not love and she tells Ross she understands his loss of Elizabeth because she was his fist love and that was much greater than her loss of her boy toy, Hugh.


message 12: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Oh dear - as I have read through all these posts I can see how much further from the books DH took us in this series than I had realised. There are many distortions that others have pointed out. It's back to the book again for me I think. Or perhaps it's time to let go of TAT and move on. After series 5 we shall all have only the books. Or possibly even before that if series 5 is a completely made up story. I am grateful for and appreciative of these posts and all the others that have been posted on the Poldark series. They bring some reality to to it all.


message 13: by Val (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Stella, you have to view the "Poldark Series" as a different story from Graham's novels. I know exactly how you feel. I too became despondent and unhappy after the Series 3, adaptation. It was then I decided to either stop watching, or see the books and the series through different optics.

I've enjoyed your comments and your insights throughout Series 4. Thank you!


message 14: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Val, I for one completely agree I enjoyed each and appreciated the differences. That said look at all the fun we have had comparing and contrasting and most of all speculating.


message 15: by Val (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Yes indeed Bernie!

Thanks to all of you for such an entertaining 2 months.


message 16: by Doug (last edited Jul 30, 2018 09:55PM) (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments When Ross returned to Nampara the following conversation took place between himself and Demelza.
R: "Will Drake and Morwena be happy?"
D: "I think so. If two people love as they love."
R: "Do you think that's enough?"
D: "Sometimes it's too much."
R:"Not from my experience."
Are there any thoughts on what Demelza is suggesting here when she says, " Sometimes it's too much" and the meaning of Ross' response?


message 17: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Val wrote: "Yes indeed Bernie!

Thanks to all of you for such an entertaining 2 months."


I agree Val and thanks for your contributions to our stimulating debate which I hope is not totally finished yet.


message 18: by Trev (last edited Jul 31, 2018 02:12AM) (new)

Trev | 114 comments Doug wrote: "When Ross returned to Nampara the following conversation took place between himself and Demelza.
R: "Will Drake and Morwena be happy?"
D: "I think so. If two people love as they love."
R: "Do you t..."


Doug - I think this is DH's very much condensed version of this extract (below) from TAT when Ross and Demelza are standing on the cliff top. They have just been discussing Drake's wedding but looking for a way to talk about their own situation.

'They had reached the heart of the issue. ‘This time,’ Ross said, ‘I’m the chief offender – maybe the only one. At least I plead no excuse.’
‘Oh, Ross, it is not—
’ ‘Perhaps in the end one measures the quality of one’s forgiveness by the quality of one’s love. Sometimes my love has been lacking. Is yours now?’
‘No,’ she said. ‘Nor ever will be. Tisn’t love I lack, Ross, but understanding.’ ‘Understanding comes from the head; love from the heart.
Which have you always believed to be the more important?’
‘It isn’t quite as easy as that.’
'No, I know,’ he acknowledged slowly. ‘I ought to know.’
The clouds were flying so fast it looked as if the moon were being thrown across the sky. ‘Perhaps,’ she said, ‘we both care too much.’
‘It’s a signal failing in two people who have been married fourteen years. But I think if we can admit that, it is a long way towards understanding.’
‘But caring,’ she said. ‘Doesn’t that mean thinking of the other? Perhaps we have each done too little of that.’
‘In other words our love has been selfish—’
‘Not that much. But sometimes—’
‘So we must be more tolerant, each of the other . . . But how do we achieve tolerance without indifference? Isn’t that a worse fate?’
After a minute she said: ‘Yes.’
‘Then what is your answer?’
‘My answer?’
‘Your solution.’
'Perhaps we must just go on living – and learning, Ross.’
‘And loving,’ said Ross. ‘That most of all.’

It's a shame we didn't get all of this in episode 8, together with a reaffirmation of their belief and trust in each other. I liked what was said at the end but it wasn't quite enough for me. Maybe DH did it on purpose so that we were left wanting more.


message 19: by Doug (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Trev wrote: "Doug wrote: "When Ross returned to Nampara the following conversation took place between himself and Demelza.
R: "Will Drake and Morwena be happy?"
D: "I think so. If two people love as they love."..."


Trev - Thanks for your response. It is too bad the conversation was not expanded in the series. I'm still confused by Demelza's "we both care too much" comment in the book dialogue. It seems an odd thing to say to one's significant other. Perhaps it means caring somehow inhibits understanding. What's the logic in that?


message 20: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments I agree with all that has been said about the quality of the discussion here and I, too, would like to thank everyone. I have learned a lot and been able to see things from a different perspective. Although there is to be a series 5, it feels to me that this series is really the end. I cannot imagine that series 5 will produce such high quality discussions as we have had here for series 3 and 4. I shall miss this forum.


message 21: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Stella wrote: "I agree with all that has been said about the quality of the discussion here and I, too, would like to thank everyone. I have learned a lot and been able to see things from a different perspective...."

Thanks for all your insights and information Stella. Yes the discussions have been really good and informative. Having just read an article from the Radio Times website, I have to agree with you about series 5.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/20...

I hope we are all wrong, but for me, there must be some sort of spanner in the works to stop them announcing what is happening next. I can't remember this happening for previous series. DH has said somewhere else that she has already written most of it.


message 22: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Mock Turtle wrote: "I enjoyed the London scenes, also because Demelza finally had a different outfit to wear, which was lovely.
Then back to Cornwall and back to that old green thing..."


I agree about the London gown. Will we see it in series 5? The green dress should be thrown out at the same time as the magnolia and the poems so Demelza can have a fresh start. Maybe they all could be ceremonially burned.

Back in London we only got a tiny bit of Ross' teasing about her new dress. If only there had been more episodes we might have got all of this, from TAT.

'When Ross turned round and saw it he said: ‘That is very pretty. But where is the gown?’
‘This is it! This is what I have bought!’
‘That’s a petticoat.’
‘Oh, Ross, you are provoking! You know well it is nothing of the sort.’
‘Would you wish me to go in my shirt and underbreeches?’ ‘
'No, no, you must not tease! I need confidence, not – not . . .’
‘Port will give you that.’ She grimaced at him.
‘And this is for my hair,’ she said, showing him the feather.
‘Well, I don’t know what your father would say if he could see you.’
‘It is the fashion, Ross. Caroline insisted.’
‘I know just how women insist. And you, I’m sure, were protesting loudly and saying, no, no, no!’
‘Well, I did protest, truly. And this is much the most respectable of the gowns I was shown. Some women, Caroline says, damp their frocks when they put them on so that they will cling more.’
‘You damp anything, my dear, and I’ll smack you.’ She paused while he tied his stock.
‘But, Ross, you do like it, don’t you? I still have time to change.’
‘And you’d wear an old frock to please me?’
‘Of course.’
‘And be miserable all night?’
‘I wouldn’t be miserable. I’m so happy.’
‘Yes . . . you look it, I’ll say that. Why are you happy?’
‘Because of you, of course. Because of us. Need I say?’
‘No,’ he said, ‘perhaps not . . .’ Somewhere a clock was striking nine. He said: ‘The vexing thing is, good-looking women look good in anything. Or should I say almost anything? Well . . .’ He stared at her. ‘On longer inspection I like the frock. I think it has a touch of elegance. I am only a little reluctant that so many men should see so much of you.’

I can't understand why DH left that out, or shortened it so much that the humour almost disappeared.


message 23: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments I sent a message asking that a new topic be established for season 5 starting with speculation. Somehow I thing folks will have opinions about that.


message 24: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Talking about costumes did anyone else notice that poor Dwight, Caroline and Demelza wore the same clothes in the scene at the fun park before Ross had his duel when they talked about her not throwing Monk’s flower away and after when they ran into George. I would not have expected that lack of attention to production detail from the BBC but there it was.


message 25: by Stella (last edited Aug 02, 2018 07:26AM) (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Trev wrote "Thanks for all your insights and information Stella. Yes the discussions have been really good and informative. Having just read an article from the Radio Times website, I have to agree with you about series 5.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/20...

I hope we are all wrong, but for me, there must be some sort of spanner in the works to stop them announcing what is happening next. I can't remember this happening for previous series. DH has said somewhere else that she has already written most of it.
* * * * * * * * *

Trev - The link was very interesting especially as it seems there has been no clear announcement even now about what the next series will cover. If the very last series of this overall production is to be 'The Miller's Dance' and DH sticks to the books we shall get Ross' thoughts and Jeremy's thoughts and a conversation between Ross and Demelza with them looking back but also taking stock of what they have. I suppose it could work but my understanding was that Winston Graham wrote The Stranger From the Sea, The Miller's Dance and The Loving Cup as a trilogy. Then The Twisted Sword as a stand alone book. I wonder if DH will squeeze in 'The Loving Cup'. Perhaps she might if she could get more episodes. All speculation and I wish we could hear something definite.


message 26: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Bernie wrote: ".I sent a message asking that a new topic be established for season 5 starting with speculation. Somehow I thing folks will have opinions about that.

Bernie - I have only just seen this. Have we got a season 5 speculation forum yet?



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