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TV adaptation > Season 4 - Episode 3

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message 1: by Tanya, Moderator/Hostess (new)

Tanya | 640 comments Mod
Welcoming comments for Season 4 - Episode 3 (2018)


message 2: by Doug (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Not the reckoning I expected. Ross is still a lap dog.


message 3: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Doug wrote: "Not the reckoning I expected. Ross is still a lap dog."
It seemed reasonably close to the book. The initial difficulty Ross had with his conflicting feelings towards Demelza.


message 4: by Ken (last edited Jun 25, 2018 05:23AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments What the hell are we watching? The Not-Angry Tide? How is this Ross' character? Was the coach ride too rough and his balls fell off and rolled out on the floor? I'm guessing he took them to the jeweler and had em made into the earrings. lol

What was Verity's purpose? She had no meaningful conversations with either Demelza or Elizabeth, nothing more than polite chit chat. A little more with Liz, hinting that things might be different.
I can't remember an episode that moved the story less, I hate to use the word filler, but......
So Demelza gets a pass on her infidelity? Debbie cut everything meaningful in the two times they talked. The episode just seemed flat to me.
I do know who's face Ross saw on the Illugan men. haha

I am happy about one think though, no flash back to the sick bed, now I can believe Demelza did truly chose Ross and her marriage over a continued affair with Boy-Toy. Demelza is far more interested in fixing Drakes love life, than her own. It's over Ross, like it or lump it.

The best hug in the episode goes to Ross/Dwight.
The best lines..... Horace... arf


message 5: by Doug (last edited Jun 25, 2018 06:56AM) (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Ken wrote: "What the hell are we watching? The Not-Angry Tide? How is this Ross' character? Was the coach ride too rough and his balls fell off and rolled out on the floor? I'm guessing he took them to the jew..."

Yes, to this point Demelza's infidelity has had no apparent negative consequences for her and seemingly has strengthened her hand with Ross. It even netted her a pair of ear rings. Ross must still be blaming himself for driving Demelza to stray.


message 6: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Doug wrote: "Ken wrote: "What the hell are we watching? The Not-Angry Tide? How is this Ross' character? Was the coach ride too rough and his balls fell off and rolled out on the floor? I'm guessing he took the..."
Doug, I think there a direction change coming next episode.... did you watch the teasers at the end?
It looks like the mine accident Ross will die and Dwight will bring him back with CPR (it was Bill Thomas in the book) I think Ross will have his friends care for his recovery rather than Demelza... She's shown in bed with the kids, but not Ross.
I don't think Ross has let this go yet. He'd be smart to tell Demelza he knows about the poems and see what she has to say... Right now all she's admitted is Hugh touched her heart.


message 7: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments The first two episodes of series four covered three months - the last book of The Four Swans. The third episode covered eleven months and more than twenty percent of The Angry Tide. It ended with the Ross and Demelza scene after he had met Elizabeth in the garden at George's Trenwith party.

The events followed the book but moved on at a pace with little detail because of a need to fit in so much in one episode. Some scenes were so short, if you blinked you missed them. I also didn't understand why Verity was at Trenwith and visited Nampara when neither of these visits took place in the book. Her talks with both Elizabeth and Demelza just produced looks of consternation and some embarrassment on their faces. (I'm not a horticulturalist but I'm fairly certain that a magnolia is not an indoor pot plant so is this a gaffe or has Demelza set it up as a shrine to her beloved Hugh?)

The biggest issue for me though was that, even though the disillusionment and frustration between Ross and Demelza was there to see, all the anger and resentment had been surgically removed. Why has the scalpel been used to cut out such things as Ross taunting Demelza about Hugh Bodrugan trying to get into her bed, telling her about the women he's invited to his rooms in London, and intimating that it's only over with Hugh because he is dead? Why did Demelza not say such things as 'A marriage without warmth, without trust, a trust that we've both betrayed' or 'Is it because I have failed you since then?' (It is possible that these words are being reserved for a later episode.)

Do we have to perceive that Ross' anger was channelled by campaigning in the House of Commons, swinging a pick axe at a rock face down his mine and thumping some of the Illuggan miners?

Looking back at the 1976 TV version, the anger and resentment shown by Ross towards Demelza was clearly portrayed, and the way Demelza retaliated with some anger of her own showed how they were both fighting to keep their marriage alive. In TAT Ross says 'Perhaps that fact that we fight shows that we still have something to lose.' He also said 'I want you, I want you, but there's anger and jealousy in it still and they die hard.'

In TAT Ross said a lot to Dwight about his anger and jealousy, including confiding his suspicions that Hugh Armitage had made a cuckold of him. When Dwight asked about Demelza, Ross said 'And what do you do about a wife whose loyalty has hitherto been absolute, and you see her like a sapling blown in a hurricane, bowing to the ground, perhaps uprooted by it? .........In episode three, when Dwight asked 'How is Demelza?' Ross said 'Thawing!'

Are we now watching a 'no blame culture' version of Poldark so that it retains that modern identity that 'connects' with a modern audience? Just a minute! There was plenty of blame being dished out in series two if I remember, so is there another agenda I can't quite work out?


message 8: by Bernie (last edited Jun 25, 2018 10:09AM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Season 4, Episode 3

DH continues to track towards WG's story line with adjustments for the changes in the personalities of the characters she introduced in season 3. This week is the tact to the Angry Tide. DH took five pages from TAT (PP.35-40) cover the initial encounter between Ross and Demelza after he returns from London and turns into three exchanges that explains their relationship after Hugh dies. Her adaptation fits better the personalities of her characters. Ross is deeply hurt and Hugh's shadow continues darkens their relationship despite Demelza's assurances. A two great difference between DH and WG versions of the story is that Ross knows of the Demelza's feeling for Hugh well before the sick bed and poem scenes, and takes responsibility for her straying because he had taken her for granted, and Demelza makes a very clear choice of Ross over Hugh immediately after her tryst forcefully rejecting Hugh's continued advances even on his death bed. While she is "broken hearted" when Hugh dies, she tells Ross that their love is much different and stronger than her feeling for Hugh. However, the fact that she had such feeling for Hugh are hurtful to Ross and give rise to his anger and jealousy that color their relationship leading to his prolonged absence in London and there estrangement when he returns. This very much tracks with the book. The TV version of Ross is much kinder and subdued then the book version of Ross. He is less confrontational when he asks if Demelza "been grieving for Hugh?" and she is much more reassuring that she had not, telling him that 'Tis all past, Ross, done with. But you left for London, so I had no chance to tell you so Then you kept away." In the book all she says is "For a time . . . Hugh came into my life! I can't tell you why - and into my heart, where before there had only ever been you. But it is over. That is all I can say.' 'Because he is dead?' 'It is over, Ross."

IN WG version their conversation continues but in DH's version there is a break in time suggesting that their estrangement continues until the night he visits Trenwith and tells Demelza that he met Elizabeth. DH uses this encounter to finally bring Ross and Demelza together. Ross asks Demelza, "You don't suspect an attachment there still," and she responds, "No more than you suspect my attachment to Hugh. Except you do still suspect." Getting the heart of the matter he says, "I cannot compete with a ghost." Demelza responds, (straight from the book) "No more could I compete with an ideal." They finally end up embracing as Demelza asks, "Are we strangers still?," and Ross responds, "Yes... but strangers who know every inch of each other's skin."

All in all very well done.


message 9: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments I desperately want to like series 4 if only because it's looking like it will be the last proper series. Aidan Turner keeps telling us series 5 will be the last and I keep hearing that DH is in discussion with the BBC about which books should be in series 5. So thank you Bernie for pointing out the positives of series 4. DH is keeping closer to the books than she did in series 3 and one has to be grateful for this. Yes Ross' anger was toned down but there was too much anger in series 3 so I'm glad of this. Trev - you make some good points but I want to continue to enjoy series 4 for what it is.


message 10: by Doug (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Ken, Trev, Bernie and Stella, thanks for your perspectives. They very much enhance my enjoyment of the series.


message 11: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Doug - that is good to hear.

Ken - have you seen a trailer for episode 4? If so where? Can you post a link please?


message 12: by Ken (last edited Jun 25, 2018 12:22PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Doug - that is good to hear.

Ken - have you seen a trailer for episode 4? If so where? Can you post a link please?"

Doug, there were scenes at the end of the episode on the file I have.... I've seen no posting on Utube or elsewhere, yet. I'd clip it and post here, but I don't know the HTML..... any help? I don't know if the page allows clips, maybe Tanya could help answer that.

Great post, Val.


message 13: by Doug (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Doug - that is good to hear.

Ken - have you seen a trailer for episode 4? If so where? Can you post a link please?"
Doug, there were scenes at the end of the episode on the file I h..."

Ken, I don't know how you would post a clip on this page without inserting a link to a clip elsewhere.


message 14: by Bernie (last edited Jun 25, 2018 06:28PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Trev wrote: "
The biggest issue for me though was that, even though the disillusionment and frustration between Ross and Demelza was there to see, all the anger and resentment had been surgically removed. ..."

I certainly agree that the book and the TV presentation of Ross's anger are very different, but the way DH developed his character, the book version would seem out of place. What we saw last night was that Ross, even after being at home for some time, and having the reassurances from Demelza, that he did not have in the book, was still concerned that he was fighting a ghost. Unfortunately, WG provides little of Ross and Demelza's interactions after he comes home. We know that he took her to bed immediately and was surprised of the tenderness. We know that things would be going well but then he would be overwhelmed thinking of what had happened, and in some way withdraws. The best description comes from Demelza when she things of Ross after leaves to return to London:

"Never since Hugh Armitage’s death had there been total ease between them. Love and laughter, she had discovered before this, could exist on a plane which was not at all superficial but which did not penetrate to the depths of one’s being. It had been so five years ago; it was so again now. She longed more than anything for the total submersion in each other that had occurred at other times. Only when it was withdrawn did one observe the tremendous gap that existed between that and the next stage. With him gone, she busied herself in the concerns of the countryside; and, Dwight being also bereft, she saw much of him."

Obvious, as depicted last night they have returned to a relationship were they shared "love and laughter ... which was not at all superficial," even if not to the depth they once had. Outwardly, Ross does not exhibit the anger and jealously he had when he returned from stewing for 8 months in London. I guess time surgically removed the hurt both he and Demelza felt.


message 15: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Trev wrote: "
The biggest issue for me though was that, even though the disillusionment and frustration between Ross and Demelza was there to see, all the anger and resentment had been surgically r..."

Nice post, Bernie.... although we are seeing things differently. Demelza has been delivering her lines like she has a chip on her shoulder, but that's just me.
I do appreciate the passage you quoted, one of my favorites in TAT
Have fun on the trip, buddy


message 16: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Bernie wrote: "Trev wrote: "
The biggest issue for me though was that, even though the disillusionment and frustration between Ross and Demelza was there to see, all the anger and resentment had been surgically r..."

Your post has clarified for me how Ross and Demelza are around each other when Ross returns from London. I think the tension between them (perhaps more from Ross) is well portrayed. I would have liked some longer scenes in which to develop a bit more what is going on between them. Perhaps time will be given to this once Demelza has been to London and returned.


message 17: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Stella wrote: "I desperately want to like series 4 if only because it's looking like it will be the last proper series. Aidan Turner keeps telling us series 5 will be the last and I keep hearing that DH is in dis..."

I know what you mean Stella. They are a great set of actors and it will be such a shame when they are no longer on our screens. AT keeps saying he doesn't want to play a much older Ross, not at the present time anyway, so what will happen in series 5?

Although I can accept that most of the viewers of the TV series will never read the books and that the series is 'based on' The Poldark Saga I think it is important to identify the differences (particularly on a goodreads board) so that potential readers are not unduly misled. DH's version is only one interpretation, the 1975/6 version another, and all our personal readings throw up yet more.
I am someone who doesn't like watching Shakespeare set in modern times, I prefer authenticity, but I know how much others appreciate more ambitious and perhaps more relevant retelling of his plays. There is a fine line to tread, however, between relevance and maintaining an integrity with the plot, and in DH's case, the main characters.


message 18: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Doug wrote: "Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Doug - that is good to hear.

Ken - have you seen a trailer for episode 4? If so where? Can you post a link please?"
Doug, there were scenes at the end of the episode on ..."


Doug - you may already have this link. It is not a clip, but the information page from the BBC giving details of episode 4

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b9...


message 19: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Trev wrote: "Stella wrote: "I desperately want to like series 4 if only because it's looking like it will be the last proper series. Aidan Turner keeps telling us series 5 will be the last and I keep hearing th..."
I agree with you Trev, especially about preferring the series to keep to the historical nature of the books. I am annoyed with Aidan's comments about not wanting to play an older Ross. Whichever books they deicide to use for series 5 there will be at least a 10 year gap. TAT ends at the end of 1799 and TSFTS starts in 1810 so this is just an excuse on his part I think. The BBC could have the courage to employ new actors for the main parts. Rufus Sewell would be a popular choice for Ross I think but who would play Demelza? I have no idea what will happen in series 5 but it is interesting that DH has been in discussion with the BBC about which books they should use for series 5, suggesting that it is will not necessarily be books 8 and 9. If they want a suitable ending I think The Twisted Sword would be the best book to end on but how to bridge the gaps in time?


message 20: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Thanks for the link Trev, I'll return the favor when I find a clip of ep4.
Stella and Trev, correct me if I'm wrong but last I read AT and ET were contracted for 5 seasons.
I don't think they have to change much at all for the time gap to be believable..... a few gray hairs maybe. Ross will only be 50 and Demelza 40, that's not really one foot in the grave. haha


message 21: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Ken wrote: "Thanks for the link Trev, I'll return the favor when I find a clip of ep4.
Stella and Trev, correct me if I'm wrong but last I read AT and ET were contracted for 5 seasons.
I don't think they have ..."

Ken - you are right that Aidan is contracted for 5 episodes and Eleanor too. There seems to be a possibility that the books to be covered in series 5 may not be TSFTS and TMD as DH was in discussion with the BBC about which books to cover. Sounds interesting to me.


message 22: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Stella wrote: "Ken wrote: "Thanks for the link Trev, I'll return the favor when I find a clip of ep4.
Stella and Trev, correct me if I'm wrong but last I read AT and ET were contracted for 5 seasons.
I don't thin..."


Book Demelza started to use back hair dye (discreetly until Ross found out) which was easily obtainable back then because probably more men used it than women. TV Demelza's red hair could pose a few problems. Maybe she will concoct something from the plants and flowers in the Nampara garden.

As for which books will be used, I agree with you Stella that the best book to end on would be The Twisted Sword if they are unable to do all of them. But that would mean Ross nearing 60 and Demelza nearing 50. ET seems keen to continue, make-up and all. If there had to be an alternative, I would choose Suranne Jones (who would have to wear a red wig.) None of those Frenchies or aristocrats would mess with her and she'd give Sir Hugh the good hiding he deserves!


message 23: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Trev wrote: "Stella wrote: "Ken wrote: "Thanks for the link Trev, I'll return the favor when I find a clip of ep4.
Stella and Trev, correct me if I'm wrong but last I read AT and ET were contracted for 5 season..."

Yes Suranne Jones could fit the bill. I wonder which actress Mammoth had in mind originally to play Demelza as we know it wasn't Eleanor. She had to fight to get that part and thank goodness she did.


message 24: by Ken (last edited Jun 26, 2018 02:38PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Here ya go, Trev... teaser for ep4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xonk1...

Here's my post there....
wow.... lots happening this Sunday....Enys' tragedy.... mine disaster. I'm speculating Ross' dies.................yep, you read that correctly.........
Dwight will bring him back to life with CPR (no, not in the book, the miner's name was Bill Thomas) I also think Ross will get the boys to look after his recovery, which will give Demelza the long face and empty bed (showing her how conflicted Ross still is over her betrayal)....... Of course George is hoping to plant Ross next to Agatha. Looks like a packed 58 mins.

Something major has to set the stage for Ross not wanting to go home to recuperate...... It could only be more poems or Demelza confesses she had sex with Hugh (maybe twice...Ross is still only suspicious)..........That confession would send Ross off the deep end and set the stage for a deeper estrangement..
ya ya, I know, still playing the same drum, but it's because I still have that feeling.


message 25: by Bernie (last edited Jun 26, 2018 03:16PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "Ross not wanting to go home to recuperate...... It could only be more poems or Demelza confesses she had sex with Hugh (maybe twice...Ross is still only suspicious)..."

Please.... how many times do you have to be wrong before you give it up. (view spoiler)


message 26: by Ken (last edited Jun 26, 2018 03:46PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Ross not wanting to go home to recuperate...... It could only be more poems or Demelza confesses she had sex with Hugh (maybe twice...Ross is still only suspicious)..."

Please.... how ..."


Bernie.... all 7 of your points are 100% correct, but none of them preclude my scenario. ) I'm not sure speculations are spoilers, but I'll hide the rest to be safe)
(view spoiler)


message 27: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "I read a huge scene between Ross and Demelza is coming this season,..."

Yes there is huge scene if DH is true to the book. (view spoiler)


message 28: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments There something bugging me about the party in the last episode.....
The boat on the buffet table has the sails on backwards.... This is a quality production team that makes few mistakes.... Is there something I'm missing????

Bath 1


message 29: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "I read a huge scene between Ross and Demelza is coming this season,..."

Yes there is huge scene if DH is true to the book. [spoilers removed]"

Bernie - I love your humour when dealing with some of Ken's posts - no offence Ken but you predictions are growing increasingly bizarre, although very entertaining.


message 30: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "I read a huge scene between Ross and Demelza is coming this season,..."

Yes there is huge scene if DH is true to the book. [spoilers removed]"
Bernie - I love your humou..."

Stella, I'm fine with bizarre. haha


message 31: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "I read a huge scene between Ross and Demelza is coming this season,..."

Yes there is huge scene if DH is true to the book. [spoilers removed]"
Bernie - I ..."


Ken - After some of the bizarre events that took place in series 3 (especially episode 9) I think DH would welcome you with open arms as a co-writer on her scriptwriting team.

I have a possible scenario to explain the worried Demelza in bed with the children. (view spoiler)


message 32: by Doug (last edited Jun 27, 2018 09:36AM) (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Trev wrote: "Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "I read a huge scene between Ross and Demelza is coming this season,..."

Yes there is huge scene if DH is true to the book. [spoilers removed]"..."


I think it more likely that...
(view spoiler)


message 33: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Trev wrote: "I have a possible scenario to explain the worried Demelza in bed with the children..."
"..."

I see my bizarre speculation has sparked some gems.... very entertaining, Trev and Doug.

I'm down for the plant finding a new home in the fire. Demelza's shrine to Hugh in the dining room is a bit much. I can tell you for sure those leaves would be yellow, not green, after I watered it every morning. lol

So any guesses on the backwards sails?.... just a goof?


message 34: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Ken wrote: "Trev wrote: "I have a possible scenario to explain the worried Demelza in bed with the children..."
"..."
I see my bizarre speculation has sparked some gems.... very entertaining, Trev and Doug.

This is fantastic entertainment - better than the series!



message 35: by Trev (last edited Jun 27, 2018 10:53AM) (new)

Trev | 114 comments Ken wrote: "Trev wrote: "I have a possible scenario to explain the worried Demelza in bed with the children..."
"..."
I see my bizarre speculation has sparked some gems.... very entertaining, Trev and Doug.

I..."


Ken - On closer inspection of the ship it looks like there are crudely embossed windows drawn in with a balcony rail above on what at first looks like the front because of that huge bowsprit pointing forward. I think it is the back but, either someone has stuck the bowsprit at the wrong end or my knowledge of sailing vessels is just not good enough to identify that part of the ship. I also think I can see a rudder under the windows in amongst the greenery on the table? My other guess is that they got it second hand from an old Pirates of the Caribbean film where authenticity doesn't count for much.


message 36: by Ken (last edited Jun 27, 2018 10:59AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Trev wrote: "Ken wrote: "Trev wrote: "I have a possible scenario to explain the worried Demelza in bed with the children..."
"..."
I see my bizarre speculation has sparked some gems.... very entertaining, Trev ..."

Your right, Trev..... that's the stern of the boat with a bow sprint up its "poop deck" lololol
Do you think a props man dropped it and did a rush repair? The bow sprint sails are going the wrong way too, they must have fallen off.

Thanks mystery solve... I didn't think it was a gamer's easter egg with hidden meaning........... but........... Maybe it means George is going through life... ass first. hahaha


message 37: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Trev wrote: Ross had come home to find Demelza and Trudie admiring Hugh's magnolia and when Demelza says 'Isn't it beautiful, I'm so lucky to have it,' Ross storms in and in a rage says ' don't you mean had him?' .."

You might be interested to see how WG had Ross and Demelza deal with "Hugh's magnolia." Very differently from the way you all are imagining things: Here is the what he wrote:

"This morning, as if by coincidence, she was forking round Hugh Armitage’s present of more than a decade ago, which had been planted against the wall of the library. She straightened as Ross came up, pushing her hair away from her face with a clean forearm. He said: ‘The Falmouths’ two magnolias, which I think came from Carolina at the same time as ours, are twenty feet high, and one already in bud.’ ‘This poor thing has never been happy here. And it has had a sad winter. I don’t think it is ever going to do any good. The soil is wrong.’ They stood looking at the plant. This was quite a casual discussion between them, with only the faintest shadow of Hugh Armitage left. ‘Perhaps it should go back,’ said Demelza. ‘Where? To Tregothnan?’ ‘A plant that neither dies nor prospers . . . It is out of its element.’ ‘No, keep it.’ Demelza looked up at him and smiled. The sun made her eyes glint. ‘Why?’ ‘Why keep it? Well . . . it has become part of our lives.’ A reminder of past error, his as well as hers, but he did not say as much. It was implicit. And without rancour."

Graham, Winston. The Stranger From The Sea: A Novel of Cornwall 1810-1811 (Poldark Book 8) (pp. 254-255). Pan Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

Guys give it up. DH is running with the book and none of your scenarios, no matter how much Ken wants it to happen, will come to pass. Just read what WG has to say ... "past error, his as well as hers, but he did not say as much. It was implicit. And without rancour."


message 38: by Trev (last edited Jun 28, 2018 02:59AM) (new)

Trev | 114 comments Bernie wrote: "Trev wrote: Ross had come home to find Demelza and Trudie admiring Hugh's magnolia and when Demelza says 'Isn't it beautiful, I'm so lucky to have it,' Ross storms in and in a rage says ' don't you..."

Bernie - I did know the fate of the magnolia and the conversation in the Nampara garden, but my question is did DH? Has she read all the books? If so why is she placing the magnolia inside the Nampara farmhouse unless she wants to make a point about it?

WG uses symbolism like many great authors. The giving of the magnolia by Hugh to Demelza was symbolic in itself. The flower is a symbol of purity which was then often given to brides on their wedding night to acknowledge their past virtue. The fact that Hugh was about to attack Demelza's married virtue can be linked to his disparaging remarks about marraige just after he had presented the magnolia. The stunted magnolia is a symbol of the error that Demelza made ( and Ross thinks he was complicit in her error), Demelza's relationship with Hugh could never prosper just like the plant. The words of Ross and Demelza when looking at the stunted magnolia in the garden came more than ten years after her adultery.

Later, in The Twisted Sword Ross remembers this...
'The other side was, having refused to be made a JP, why had he been willing to be elected an MP? Chiefly because of Demelza’s defection, her infatuation with the young sailor-poet Hugh Armitage, her unfaithfulness in thought – and he suspected deed – her straying away from him in sympathy and understanding and compassion and love. God, how it had hurt at the time! It had burned in him like an acid, corroding the linings of his stomach and heart. The effects of it, even after Hugh’s death, had gone on for years.'

It took Ross many years to get over Demelza's defection and still hurt him to think of it even twenty years later.

One place the magnolia shouldn't be is sitting in a jug on a Nampara windowsill. It should either be thrown in the fire or planted in the garden to wither and almost die rather than bloom energetically as a shrine for Hugh.


message 39: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments I must have missed something where is it in a jar in the house? I don’t remember it being scene since it first appeared in s3,e8.


message 40: by Ken (last edited Jun 28, 2018 08:19AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "I must have missed something where is it in a jar in the house? I don’t remember it being scene since it first appeared in s3,e8."
Bath 1

This is Verity asking Demelza about the plant in the window..... She says is Hugh's magnolia.
Ross has to look at it as he eats. :)) Looks like a shrine to me, how about you? It may mean something different in years to come, but now Ross' mindset is they can't even joke, 'because it is all too tender and raw.' Demelza is thoughtless in placing it such a prominent place in the house, she should hid it with the poems.

Debbie's Demelza is caviler about her betrayal, saying "it's over" but she never says what it "was", other than he touched her heart.
I think in her heart she knows it's not over.


message 41: by Bernie (last edited Jun 28, 2018 04:32PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments About as sensitive as Ross telling her that he had seen Elizabeth and she was not unwelcoming.


message 42: by Trev (new)

Trev | 114 comments Bernie wrote: "About as sensitive as Ross telling her that he had scene Elizabeth and she was not unwelcoming."

Is DH playing a bit of a game here?

DH has obviously read TAT where in Book 2 chapter 1 it says .....
'The lilac tree beside the window bent and quivered; her garden looked derelict; the unknown plant left her by Hugh Armitage flattened its big green leaves against the library wall.'

Yet DH (it seems) deliberately places the plant inside the house. Is it just for the purpose of Verity asking about it and Demelza answering in a 'I don't really want to talk about it' tone that may make Verity suspicious? Or has she got another motive for placing it inside the house? We shall see.

When Ross was talking to Demelza about seeing Elizabeth, I expected him to say to her that Elizabeth was not pleased to see him, as he did in the book.

'I found Elizabeth walking alone in the garden and spoke to her. She was not over-pleased to see me and that is understandable'

So why did DH turn this around to almost the opposite of what Ross said in the book? Was it to enable them to compare their jealousies and Demelza could talk about competing with an ideal whilst Ross fights a shade?

I know my fanciful scenario won't happen, but at least DH has already fulfilled a couple of my 'wishes beyond the books.' They are showing a remorseful Demelza and a Demelza that makes Ross her choice over Hugh. Will DH now take that final step to show us a Demelza that says 'sorry,' at least for the deception about her true feelings for Hugh, if not the adultery?



message 43: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Trev wrote: "Bernie wrote: "About as sensitive as Ross telling her that he had scene Elizabeth and she was not unwelcoming."

Is DH playing a bit of a game here?

DH has obviously read TAT where in Book 2 chap..."

Bernie - I completely agree with you. Demelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behaviour around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool.


message 44: by Bernie (last edited Jun 28, 2018 03:56PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Stella wrote: "TDemelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behaviour around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool...."

Even more than in the book, TV Demelsa seems very upset when she see the way Ross is taking it. She was very upset when she returned after the tryst with Hugh and was very affectionate to Ross in S4,E1. Not only had she clearly choice him over Hugh, but when she returned home the night he died and Ross asked her to tell him how she felt, she pointedly ttells him their love was different and greater than what she felt for Hugh. In the three scenes from e3, she seems very upset that Ross cannot leave it behind, as she had with Elizabeth. She asks him if he has been think for eight months that she fretted for Hugh, was distress when he says yes, and tells him that if he had not gone off to London so quickly and stayed away so long she would have made it clear to him that Hugh was in the past and over. After Ross returns from his night out and he tells her he has seen Elizabeth and asks if she is concerned, she parries that by say no more than he his about Hugh. The look on his face tells her that he still is concerned about her feeling for Hugh, and she is very upset asking that they put both Hugh and Elizabeth behind them.

For me this whole season has shown Demelsa paying a very heavy price for her lust for Hugh. It is a price she paid in TAT, but ET has added a dimension to it that was missing in the book. I am not sure if she will get around to apologizing to Ross or admitting to the extent of the affair, but she clearly is not a happy lady.


message 45: by Stella (last edited Jun 28, 2018 11:35PM) (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Bernie wrote: "Stella wrote: "TDemelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behaviour around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool...."

Even more than in the book, TV Demels..."

Bernie - I don't think Demelza is paying a higher price than Ross did after his night with Elizabeth. Demelza was full of uncontrolled rage for many months - not so in the book but in the production. She almost left Ross. I think series Demelza cannot cope with the guilt she feels. There is a saying that "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". So perhaps DH was more accurate in series 2 than WG.


message 46: by Ken (last edited Jun 29, 2018 09:28AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Demelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behavior around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool....."

I think Ross is being very understanding in the series, more than he was in the book. Ross is not giving her the anger she gave him for the same betrayal. Yes, Hugh's infatuation for Demelza was a temptation for her when she was vulnerable, and he was definitely wrong to pursue the wife of a man he called friend. Demelza has no blame for how Hugh felt about her...... However she, does have blame for what she allowed. It was 100% Demelza's decision to give herself to Hugh... what I see is her not taking responsibility for that decision to the man she says owns her heart. Demelza getting her dignity back hinges on her being honest.... There's no need for a "play by play" of the sex, and Ross wouldn't want it.(that would cause more needless pain).... There is a need for the WHY, and they both need that. I can't believe Demelza doesn't know that answer, how could she not?

I understand WHY she let herself experience sex outside her marriage. It had nothing to do with building a life with someone else. It was no more than a guilty pleasure, based on her attraction to Hugh, her pity for his health, and her temporary distance from Ross. All she has to do is tell Ross and it will be over. He's already told her he want's to know.... Both of them need an honest talk for closure.

She'd never forgiven Ross for his night with Liz, even though she agreed to move forward. I know it sounds a little warped, but her tryst with Hugh probably saved her marriage in the long run. (not that they would divorce, but it allow them to pull close again). Although I don't think repairing her marriage was going though her mind when she did it, the result was it put them on a level playing field. There was no way she could continue to blame him for a "one time" tryst, after she'd done the same. She also got to experience the guilt he must have felt, because Ross hid that well with a bunch of BS excuses.

I get it..... Ross doesn't.

All I've been saying, is if Demelza had been more honest in both the book and Debbie's story, the estrangement would have been over quickly. Of course all this delicious drama would have been over too. haha


message 47: by Stella (last edited Jun 29, 2018 12:24PM) (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Demelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behavior around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool....."

I think Ross is being very understand..."


Ken - this is a very clear explanation/analysis of Ross and Demelza's situation that I have read and it makes sense. Clearly you have given a lot of thought to this aspect of the story and you have got there and given me the clarification I need.


message 48: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Demelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behavior around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool....."

I think Ross is being ver..."

Thanks Stella..... I figured I owed the page something besides my crazy azz fantasy speculation... It's fun but I was starting to worry about my buddy Burnie's blood pressure. hahaha
I do agree with both of you that ET has shown a lot more conflict and remorse than was in the book. She was not a happy camper after the tryst, and unlike WG's demelza she did chose Ross over the affair.


message 49: by Doug (last edited Jul 01, 2018 09:39AM) (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Ken wrote: "Stella wrote: "Demelza definitely owes Ross an apology. Her behavior around HA was too public and not only hurt him badly but also made him look a fool....."

I think Ross is being very understand..."


If Demelza's affair was no more than a guilty pleasure, based on her attraction to Hugh, her pity for his health, and her temporary distance from Ross, why the extreme reaction upon Hugh's death? She also seemed truly conflicted during the time after the tryst and before Hugh's death. Demelza's feelings for Hugh seemed to go deeper. She kept the plant and displayed it prominently. Did she also keep the poems? She even said, "He touched my heart."


message 50: by Ken (last edited Jun 30, 2018 01:33PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Doug wrote: "Demelza's feelings for Hugh seemed to go deeper..."

Doug, I wasn't trying to insinuate she didn't have "deep feelings" for Hugh.... The fact is she chose Ross and her marriage..."we should not meet again" and "It's not in my power (to give you hope) She didn't want a life of betrayal.
How different would her emotional response have been if Garrick died, rather than Hugh?. :)) Demelza is an emotional being. Exactly why Caroline doesn't want her around when her tragedy happens.
Of course she still has poems tucked away... we saw her burn one because she was scared of being caught, but the ones that came before and the one Ross read are probably in the Magnolia vase. haha
As for touching her heart, that's not all he touched. ;)) Demelza needs to get her dignity back, and that will only come with honesty.


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