Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
Looking for a Project?
>
Great Courses
I would like to help with this. I am new to Goodreads Librarian.
I have been trying to catalog these, to help undo the damage that has been rough on the Great Courses series. By being NAB-ed, they are now not even searchable, to see what has happened.As a first pass, here are 8 of them (all in Audible Audio format) that need to be un-NABed. In the event that there is no simple way to revert back to the original information, I went ahead and looked up the original authors. I also supplied the title (which may need to have the erroneous "Not a Book" prefix removed), as well as associated ISBN/ASIN, Great Course #, and GoodReads Link:
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
COURSE: 380
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Human Prehistory and the First Civilizations
AUTHOR: Brian M. Fagan
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO3V0A
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
COURSE: 888
TITLE: Conquest of the Americas
AUTHOR: Marshall C. Eakin
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWJMC
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
COURSE: 1235
TITLE: Science Wars: What Scientists Know and How They Know It
AUTHOR: Steven L. Goldman
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO4HIK
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
COURSE: 1612
TITLE: The Rise of Humans: Great Scientific Debates
AUTHOR: John Hawks
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5F1S
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
COURSE: 4294
TITLE: Argumentation: The Study of Effective Reasoning
AUTHOR: David Zarefsky
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNW918
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
COURSE: 8210
TITLE: World War I: The "Great War"
AUTHOR: Vejas Gabriel Liulevicius
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO675Q
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
COURSE: 8870
TITLE: War and World History
AUTHOR: Jonathan P. Roth
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5YRS
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
COURSE: 9523
TITLE: Thinking about Cybersecurity: From Cyber Crime to Cyber Warfare
AUTHOR: Paul Rosenzweig
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ISBN: 159803944X
Actually the NABing wasn't doing damage - it was following the existing rules stated by staff at that point.
My mistake for the double-post, wasn't sure which was the correct place. I can take one down, as needed.(Particularly given that I have cataloged many more, and want to have them posted once.)
Lachgas: You're right, I should have said that this particular rule did the damage (even if it were around for only two months), not the NAB-ing itself. It's a lot harder to repair now, since searching NAB-ed items is difficult.In any case, I want to help right the situation, since all those Great Courses items are now buried, and cannot even be re-inserted without Librarian help (since they exist, but are invisible). It will likely take a LOT more than two months to fix this mess (cleanups always take longer).
Jonathan wrote: "this particular rule did the damage (even if it were around for only two months)"As far as I'm aware, this rule was always around. It didn't become a problem until recently, when so many people started complaining about it.
lethe wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "this particular rule did the damage (even if it were around for only two months)"As far as I'm aware, this rule was always around. It didn't become a problem until recently, when..."
You are mistaken. Great Courses had always been a part of GoodReads, and I continued with many on my GoodReads' list, for years.
The reason that "so many people started complaining about it" recently, is because it was only two months ago did they start going through and retroactively starting marking all these courses as "NAB". I only noticed myself when I looked in my list and suddenly found a whole bunch with the authors "Not a Book".
Cleaning up this mess will take longer than the two months it took to cause it. :-/
Follow-up about message #4:In discussion with Corrine in the other thread, it looks like I will be taking down the duplication there, and keeping the list (and future posts) here.
No worries, it’s easy enough to confuse. I just want to make sure I don’t double post again.
What is the recommended approach when we come across a Great Courses listing that has neither ISBN/ASIN nor formatting information? Do we preserve it, merging it into a pre-existing group that has the correct information?For example, I ran across this entry for Great Courses #2250: "The History of the English Language" at:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
Now, it should presumably added to this grouping:
https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...
Or should it (and all of its NABed cousins) be deleted, since it has no ASIN, nor even formatting information? Lacking even an associated image, I cannot be sure which release (if any) it is referring to.
However, it probably exists in somebody's library, so perhaps deleting it is unfair, without at least it being replaced by (or merged with) some legitimate version?
Please advise.
Thanks in advance,
Jonathan
Jonathan wrote: "What is the recommended approach when we come across a Great Courses listing that has neither ISBN/ASIN nor formatting information? Do we preserve it, merging it into a pre-existing group that has ..."According to the change log for that specific edition, the ISBN (incorrectly listed as an ASIN) was 1565852265. Goodreads removed all the edition info when it was NAB'd.
EDIT: Since Rivka is going to close the other thread in favor of this one, I assume we post here when we need the "don't edit" flag taken off? In that case, flag needs to be gone from: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
Mod
(cleared post)
Mod
rivka wrote: "I am happy to remove Notes left by staff. Any librarian can remove a Note left by another librarian if based on a policy that has since been changed."I wasn't aware of this, since my attempts to remove the first few notes didn't work. I'll see if I can figure it out.
Mod
(For clarification, any librarian is able to remove Notes left by staff, in the sense that the system will allow them to do it. It's just not a good way to keep Goodreads Librarian status, so most librarians are wise enough not to do it.)
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audible Audio)
- ASIN (which I confirmed is valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: America in the Gilded Age and Progressive Era
AUTHOR: Edward T. O'Donnell
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00WYR8VS0
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: The Secrets of Great Mystery and Suspense Fiction
AUTHOR: David Schmid
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01N04W64A
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The Industrial Revolution
AUTHOR: Patrick N. Allitt
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00NXHAH7I
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Native Peoples of North America
AUTHOR: Daniel M. Cobb
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01M99GSD7
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Mind-Body Medicine: The New Science of Optimal Health
AUTHOR: Jason M. Satterfield
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00F534IU0
NOTE: The GoodReads' page incorrectly lists its format as "Audio CD"; however, the associated ASIN and Amazon link are correctly set to the Audible version.
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audio CD)
- ISBN (which I confirmed are valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: From Jesus to Constantine: A History of Early Christianity
AUTHOR: Bart D. Ehrman
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 156585845X
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls
AUTHOR: Gary A. Rendsburg
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598036300
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: not a book: A History of Hitler's Empire
AUTHOR: Thomas Childers
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565853857
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: After the New Testament: The Writings of the Apostolic Fathers
AUTHOR: Bart D. Ehrman
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598030647
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: The New Testament
AUTHOR: Bart D. Ehrman
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565853660
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audio CD)
- ISBN (which I confirmed are valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Popes and the Papacy: A History
AUTHOR: Thomas F. X. Noble
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598031570
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
TITLE: The Story of the Bible
AUTHOR: Luke Timothy Johnson
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598032496
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: History of Christian Theology
AUTHOR: Phillip Cary
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598034863
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8...
TITLE: The Conservative Tradition
AUTHOR: Patrick N. Allitt
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598035487
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Earth's Changing Climate
AUTHOR: Richard Wolfson
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598032941
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...This edition is a DVD so still not a book, but it is the primary edition of this book so I can't delete it. How should I handle this?
Ask for a deletion in the thread for deletions and then make a new record with the ISBN's as not a book?
Lieke wrote: "Ask for a deletion in the thread for deletions and then make a new record with the ISBN's as not a book?"That's how I've been handling it.
ETA: Although when I asked in the revised policy thread (messages 6 and 7), rivka stated you can either do the merge/re-add method or just separate and NAB the DVD.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Personally I'm doing the merge/re-add method because I want everyone's shelvings to count for them.
Melanie wrote: "Lieke wrote: "Ask for a deletion in the thread for deletions and then make a new record with the ISBN's as not a book?"That's how I've been handling it so the people who shelved the DVD will be m..."
Thanks Melanie, I knew I read it somewhere but I couldn't find it anymore.
I can't separate this edition since it is the primary. I will go to the deletion thread.
A lot of these Great Courses come either as video or as audio, and it is my understanding from the policy that the video versions remain as NOT A BOOK, whilst the audio get converted back to books.As for whether or not the DVD versions should be de-coupled from the book editions, I don't see the policy requiring either way. Certainly there is a good argument that decoupling (or deleting) them would be cleaner, and less susceptible for confusion. However, I think Melanie's perspective is the right one, since it is the most customer-friendly way of implementing the policy.
I see I used the wrong word in my previous post (#25) I meant I couldn't merge the edition. If the book doesn't have reviews it can be separated but with reviews I will also do the merge/re-add method.
A somewhat related question:As I go through a number of the Great Courses items that have been NAB-ed, I am occasionally finding some errors or conflicting data. For example, the format may say "Audio CD", but the ISBN (and Amazon button link) is associated with the DVD or cassette version. And vice-versa. At times, the ISBN itself is invalid, with the Amazon link just going to Amazon's "Sorry, we couldn't find that link" page. (I am presuming that perhaps the ISBN is simply mistyped.)
So when there is a conflict between the format and the ISBN, which one is considered the operative field? Should I assume that the format is correct, and look to what the correct ISBN is? Or is the ISBN always right, and the format needs to be adjusted to fit that? And what about when the ISBN is itself invalid?
I ask, because it makes a difference whether or not I should post if a given item should be un-NABed.
Or should I just put them all up here, and let the Librarians make the decision? (Which would seem an awful waste of their time, especially if I could just filter them myself first.)
Let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Jonathan
Have you tried sources other than Amazon, such as WordCat or the publisher website?You should probably note when the format is wrong, regardless. Even if it's NAB'd, it should be accurate.
Fair point. I had just assumed that the ISBN was always correct at Amazon, but perhaps that assumes too much. (Certainly I can assume though that Amazon is authoritative with respect to ASIN's, which have also been wrong at times.)I can certainly try something like WorldCat for verification, but that still leaves me with the open question as for what to do if the ISBN is invalid (that is, it fails the checksum verification of its last Base 11 digit).
What should I do about NAB-ed Great Courses items that lack an ISBN or ASIN? Do I skip them, and let them remain NAB-ed?(This is technically what the letter of the policy says, but I ask because I know that some of these are likely to exist in someone's library. Perhaps they should be merged with an ISBN/ASIN-enabled version of the same?)
It would depend for me on what the other editions are and if there is any other information like page count/publisher/publication date.I merged one because there was an edition with the same information and I un-NAB-ed one because it was an audio cd edition and the other edition was audible audio.
I think that is correct (merge with a legit version to preserve shelvings/ratings). If they have no shelvings or nothing to merge with (unlikely), they can just be deleted. Also, re 21 & 22: I realized partway through cleaning up some of these that I'd gone through about half of the ones you'd posted, so I went ahead and did the remaining. Both should be done once a super merges/NABs the DVDs.
So, here's a bit of a doozy: https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...
where goodreads didn't just NAB the records, it also wiped all the ISBNs and such, and in the intervening time, Amazon uploaded a new version:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
So, should I resurrect the NAB'd records and back out all of the goodreads's changes (I started to, then realized how messy it was going to be, and then backed out my own changes), or leave it to, say, staff to sort it out?
For finding more great courses on this site, you can use the shelf "great-courses" or "the-great-courses"https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Obviously won't have all of them, but has some that are currently NABed.
I have added a description to each of these tags which links to the librarian manual.
I would probably try to get the information back in the records and merge any duplicate editions.I didn't think of the fact that maybe information was deleted, will have to recheck some that I have worked on.
Lieke wrote: "I would probably try to get the information back in the records and merge any duplicate editions.OK, thanks! It was ugly, and I feel very grateful and sorry for the super handling it.
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses/Modern Scholar items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audible Audio)
- ASIN/ISBN (which I confirmed is valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: Financial Literacy: Finding Your Way in the Financial Markets
AUTHOR: Connel Fullenkamp
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00ENM2DWY
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: Medieval Europe: Crisis and Renewal
AUTHOR: Teofilo F. Ruiz
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO4NPW
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The Russian Revolution: From Tsarism to Bolshevism
AUTHOR: Jonathan D. Smele
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B002QBNVB6
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Plato and Aristotle: The Genesis of Western Thought
AUTHOR: Aryeh Kosman
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ISBN: 1402542828
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK How to Boost Your Physical and Mental Energy
AUTHOR: Kimberlee Bethany Bonura
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01485IRLQ
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses/Modern Scholar items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audio CD)
- ISBN (which I confirmed is valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
TITLE: The American Revolution
AUTHOR: Allen C. Guelzo
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598034332
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: Religion in the Ancient Mediterranean World
AUTHOR: Glenn S. Holland
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598030345
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Religions Of The Axial Age: An Approach To The World's Religions
AUTHOR: Mark W. Muesse
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 159803281X
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
TITLE: Modern Economic Issues
AUTHOR: Robert Whaples
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598033794
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: A History of Ancient Sparta: Valor, Virtue, and Devotion in the Greek Golden Age
AUTHOR: Timothy B. Shutt
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1436178177
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audio CD)
- ISBN (which I confirmed is valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Masterworks of Early 20th Century Literature
AUTHOR: David Thorburn
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598033190
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9...
TITLE: Ancient Near Eastern Mythology
AUTHOR: Shalom L. Goldman
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565857720
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
TITLE: Contemporary Economic Issues
AUTHOR: Timothy Taylor
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565853598
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: American Ideals: Founding A Republic Of Virtue
AUTHOR: Daniel N. Robinson
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565858964
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: The American Mind
AUTHOR: Allen C. Guelzo
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598031112
I had assumed that putting them together at 5 at a time (the number Rivka suggested) would make batch processing easier on these, but perhaps it would be better to post them all individually?Also, I have applied for Librarian status, so that I could do these myself, without taking a lot of other people offline, but unless/until that is approved, I have been posting them here.
Let me know your recommendation moving forward.
Thanks.
#43 almost done; 43.2 and 43.3 are pending a super merging some DVDs and duplicate editions, but the rest are done.#45: There's no real 'batch' processing, in that each record has its own issues. Sometimes all the info has been stripped out, and there are duplicates that have been created since the info was stripped. Sometimes there are audio editions that are in fact DVDs, and those need to be merged and NAB'd. And sometimes it's just a matter of removing the comment and restoring the author's name. All of this to say that whether you put requests in 5 at a time or 1 at a time, they have to be handled 1 at a time :)
Ah, understood, Thanks for the info, Jenny!
Below is a list of 5 Great Courses items that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, along with:- Title (some of which may need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed),
- Author (from the Amazon page),
- Format (in this case, all Audio CD)
- ISBN (which I confirmed is valid):
1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Robert E. Lee and His High Command
AUTHOR: Gary W. Gallagher
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565858506
2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: United States and the Middle East: 1914 to 9/11
AUTHOR: Salim Yaqub
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565856708
3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: The Book of Genesis
AUTHOR: Gary A. Rendsburg
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1598031902
4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
TITLE: St. Augustine's Confessions (Great Courses, #6627)
AUTHOR: William R. Cook
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 1565858778
5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Economics Parts 1-3
AUTHOR: Timothy Taylor
FORMAT: Audio CD
ISBN: 156585358X
Which is good news, but that does mean that there's a TON of the lectures out there that need to have the Not a Book stuff taken out and the real authors added back in.
DVD/Video editions are still not books, so those also need to be separated from the audiobook editions.
Some still have a "Do not edit" flags on them, which were put there before the policy changed. Rivka has said if you post links in in the linked thread, she can get the flags taken off.
One of the problems about this is that it's kind of difficult to find which records still need to be fixed.
One option is to look at books shelved with a Great Courses tagand look for the "Not a Book" author on those pages.
Another that I've found is to go on the threads where people have been discussing the policy and searching their profiles/bookshelves for "Not a Book" Which is rather cumbersome.
Maybe someone else will have a better suggestion of how to find these?