Poldark Saga - Winston Graham discussion

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TV adaptation > Season 4 - Episode 1

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message 1: by Tanya, Moderator/Hostess (new)

Tanya | 640 comments Mod
This begins the discussion for Season 4. I need to remind everyone of the rules related to the TV discussions. I admit that I became very delinquent in my moderator duties because I was so turned off by what seemed to be personal attacks on Debbie Horsfield and crew. See below suggestions on keeping the discussion positive.

Limit the discussion to the show/book details for the episode of the particular thread. References to previous events in prior episodes/books are acceptable, but do NOT give away spoilers (i.e. use the spoiler tag) for events that may occur in a later episode/book.

Please try to keep to a respectful discussion of the adaptation—how the interpretation might differ from your own, what’s been added, what’s been omitted, etc.


message 2: by Stella (last edited May 13, 2018 12:34PM) (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments I was fortunate to get a ticket for the Poldark series 4 preview although we were all sworn to secrecy on the details. Episode 1 looks very promising and I say this as one who was very critical of series 3. This was also the best preview yet with most of the cast in the audience and then mingling with the audience for chats and photos. There was a very relaxed atmosphere this time, unlike all previous previews plus the announcement that there will be a series 5. It is likely to air in June and my guess for the date is the 10th.


message 3: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "I was fortunate to get a ticket for the Poldark series 4 preview although we were all sworn to secrecy on the details. Episode 1 looks very promising and I say this as one who was very critical of ..."
Stella, I completely understand not giving spoilers, but I'm curious about the Q&A
Did they have it before or after the screening?
What were some of the questions, and did you get to ask one??


message 4: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments They had the Q&A after the screening of episode 1. The questions covered all the series and none that I recall referred to the episode we had just watched. People asked about the longer term future of the series beyond series 5. I got to ask one at the end which was just about the air date. It seemed to me from seeing episode one that there might be cause for hope and this was strengthened by the availability of Debbie H, the directors and most of the cast who were there to talk to us about any aspect of Poldark that we wanted to. It was way the best preview so far and I felt more positive. However, that doesn't mean that I think it will stick to the books, only that it might be a little more faithful to the characters. One of the questions which was asked was which series did the panel think was the best and of course they said series 4 but perhaps there is more to this than just the publicity factor or perhaps I am naive.


message 5: by Ken (last edited May 15, 2018 09:33AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Were there any questions to Debbie about character change in S3?

Stella.... humor me as I nibble around the edges of your commitment not to spoil. haha A couple of questions that shouldn't offend.

Does the episode start the next morning after the finale?

Did we get a H&D flash back after the beach tryst?

I won't push because I don't want you breaking your vows, and Tanya will spank us both. :))


message 6: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments No the episode does not start with the next day and reference to it comes a little way in if my memory is right. There was no flashback. Nobody made reference to series 3 but I had a strong feeling that perhaps they knew there was discontent with series 3. There was a huge atmosphere of positivity at the preview that I have never experienced before and I could not risk spoiling that. It wasn't the right time. Now I feel that I have to let it go and move on.


message 7: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "No the episode does not start with the next day and reference to it comes a little way in if my memory is right. There was no flashback. Nobody made reference to series 3 but I had a strong feeling..."
Thanks Stella............ I completely understand.... Looking back on S3 I don't think Debbie actually wanted to do the tryst, that's why she put it off to the last 3 eps. What ever, it's in the books as they say.
I'm looking forward to S4. The angry tide and the last of TFS are my favorite parts of the books.


message 8: by Ann☕ (new)

Ann☕ (ann_reads) I live in the US and very much appreciate the updates, without any major spoilers. Stella, thanks for posting your thoughts here.


message 9: by Ann☕ (new)

Ann☕ (ann_reads) For those watching the tv series, has everyone read the books into Season 4 with The Angry Tide? I was hesitant to read ahead of the tv series and when I did, found myself feeling disappointed. I stopped with that book and wasn't sure if I wanted to continue because of spoilers and also worrying about how much the tv version would diverge from the books.


message 10: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Ann wrote: "For those watching the tv series, has everyone read the books into Season 4 with The Angry Tide? I was hesitant to read ahead of the tv series and when I did, found myself feeling d..."
It is perhaps better to watch the series and then read the books. Then you don't need to be torn when watching it. But it is worth reading all the books because there is so much more to them than the series can cover. Once you have read the books I recommend that you watch the series again. There is so much in the books but also quite a bit left to the reader to work out. I watched season one before I had read any of the books. As soon as it had ended I read all the books. Series 1 was good I thought but series 3 was bad for many book readers.


message 11: by Ann☕ (new)

Ann☕ (ann_reads) Thanks for your thoughts, Stella. :-) At the very least I probably will watch Season 4 before reading any additional books.

Season 3 wasn't a favorite of mine, plus I was even more disappointed and confused after reading The Angry Tide. Somehow, I think the last tv episodes diminished my appreciation of the book, too. I am still a fan of the tv version, so I'll keep watching. Graham's writing and characterizations are excellent, so the books speak for themselves.


message 12: by Parker (new)

Parker | 33 comments I've read all of the books several times ( the latest right after the end of season 3).


message 13: by Ann☕ (new)

Ann☕ (ann_reads) Parker wrote: "I've read all of the books several times ( the latest right after the end of season 3)."

Thanks, Parker. Is sounds as though a lot of fans have read the entire book series.


message 14: by Parker (new)

Parker | 33 comments I had to read the books again to get the image of Debbie's Demelza out of my head!


message 15: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Parker wrote: "I had to read the books again to get the image of Debbie's Demelza out of my head!"

I know what you mean. I too had to re-read the books for the same reason even though I had read them quite a few times already.


message 16: by Beth (new)

Beth Postema (bekp) | 2 comments I just saw the BBC press release regarding June 10, 2018 as being the air date for the start of S4. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/prog... )

I was disappointed, to say the least, about the third paragraph:
"A corn riot erupts in Truro, and Zacky’s (Tristan Sturrock) son Jago (Jack Riddiford) leads the charge. Sam Carne (Tom York) and Drake Carne (Harry Richardson) attempt to dissuade him but arrive too late, and a merchant is killed in the fighting. Tom Harry (Turlough Convery) tells George that the Carnes and Jago murdered the man, and Ross finds himself powerless to save his brothers-in-law..."
None of this, none whatsoever, is in The Four Swans or The Angry Tide. There is no character Jago Martin in the books. Yes there are riots and Ross is involved in rounding up some of those involved, but they don't involve the Carnes.
Yeah, I'm going to sound like a book purist, but Horsefield doesn't need to do this. The books are good enough on their own without complete fabrications.


message 17: by Stella (new)

Stella Day | 391 comments Debbie H was rather defensive about this at the preview, justifying it by saying that there were riots so it was based on the book. It does add a lot of tension to the episode.


message 18: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Stella wrote: "Debbie H was rather defensive about this at the preview, justifying it by saying that there were riots so it was based on the book. It does add a lot of tension to the episode."

I guess that was Debbie's thinking on the tryst, too...... There was "Sand" ..... It makes no difference if Demelza was in the weeds behind her house where the path was used by many, or on a secluded beach only accessible by boat. Demelza was just lucky that Ross or George didn't trip over her, I wish they had. haha


message 19: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments According to the BBC news release "Demelza’s infidelity leaves her torn between her husband and a lovesick Hugh." This actually is suggested by WG in a passage in TAT when we are told "Sometimes Demelza took out Hugh Armitage’s poems and read them over. Had she inspired such passion? ... Well, that was gone for ever, and she did not want it back, with its pulling at her heartstrings, the agony of divided loyalties."

Now if DH is true to her version of the story this should not be a problem for Demelza. While she was not sure that her day of loving and kissing "another" would leave him "content," she tells Ross that she thinks she would be "content" because she knows who truly owns her heart. We will see!


message 20: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments There is a nice summary of Ross and Demelza feelings by the actors on http://www.poldarked.com.


message 21: by Myrt (new)

Myrt (anwenn) | 21 comments Beth wrote: "I just saw the BBC press release regarding June 10, 2018 as being the air date for the start of S4. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/prog... )

I was disappointed, to say the leas..."


As if the absurdly handled riot in last season's finale wasn't enough? Debbie Horsfield tends to go for overkill to make a point. She doesn't seem to trust the viewers' intelligence as much as Winston Graham trusted his readers.


message 22: by Ken (last edited May 25, 2018 12:32PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote:
There is a nice summary of Ross and Demelza feelings by the actors on http://www.poldarked.com. ."


Thanks Bernie..... that was fun. It's interesting that Demelza didn't have time to tell Ross how much she loved him..... There's 3 months between the tryst and you know. I guess 90+ days is just not enough time... haha Where does Eleanore get the idea everyone loved her character committing adultery???


message 23: by Ken (last edited Jun 01, 2018 09:55AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments There are some spoilers floating around the web about S4.... These are from a friend of a friend who attended the screening and talked at length with a producer.
I have no verification any of this is true, but know some of you might be interested. Again none of this is my supposition.
Only open the spoiler if you are interested.
(view spoiler)


message 24: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "There are some spoilers floating around the web about S4.... These are from a friend of a friend who attended the screening and talked at length with a producer.
I have no verification any of this ..."


Ken you spoilers don't seem to run true to the interviews in the following

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/poldark/...

http://www.poldarked.com/2018/05/elea...


message 25: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "There are some spoilers floating around the web about S4.... These are from a friend of a friend who attended the screening and talked at length with a producer.
I have no verification ..."

First they aren't my spoilers, I thought I made that clear.
And yes, I read both of the interviews when they came out.... obviously, there's some misinformation in one or the other sources.
You guess is as good as mine, Bernie. I have known actors to mislead and flat out lie, the same with writers and producers.
I'm waiting for Stella to get back on line, she'll give us the truth about ep1 (in spoiler form of course) I think what we are talking about would do way too much damage to the character no matter how it was written.


message 26: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "Bernie ... they aren't my spoilers," Yes, I know.... my guess is that the discussion about there being a second tryst becasue, as you say, " Demelza doesn't get enough attention from Ross after her first adultery," is actually referring to the first encouter. It clearly does not ring true given the final of S3.E9. We will just have to wait and see.


message 27: by Ken (last edited Jun 01, 2018 03:38PM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie ... they aren't my spoilers," Yes, I know.... my guess is that the discussion about there being a second tryst becasue, as you say, " Demelza doesn't get enough attention from Ro..."
Berine, who knows what DH will do? She's a ratings grabbing ho... Shirtless Ross sything in S1 made a big splash, so this season he's coming out of the ocean in only pants..... wow, doesn't a guy swim without a shirt? Then there's the tub scene, another splash that's repeated this season. DH just might think there's enough viewers that want adultery 2.0.... Hey what's one more slice off the loaf?
Of course I'm kidding, it would change everything about the story.


message 28: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments More spoilers...... again this is not mine. It was posted on a Utube vid by a poster I know. She got it from a friend that went to the screening..... It could all be true or someones just trolling. You decide if you interested.
(view spoiler)


message 29: by Bernie (last edited Jun 02, 2018 04:45AM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "More spoilers...... again this is not mine. It was posted on a Utube vid by a poster I know. She got it from a friend that went to the screening..... It could all be true or someones just trolling...."

Now this could well be true. It clearly would not be in the first episode, but it would allow DH to stage something that looks like the interchange between R and D when he comes home from his first visit to London, which is very emotional and sets the tone for TAT. It also would allow for H's death.

(view spoiler)


message 30: by Ken (last edited Jun 03, 2018 08:22AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "More spoilers...... again this is not mine. It was posted on a Utube vid by a poster I know. She got it from a friend that went to the screening..... It could all be true or someones ju..."
Sry Bernie, (view spoiler)

Your so right about Eleanor telling Digital Spy last week there would be "no more philandering" So who's lying there DS or ET?? or maybe the spoilers are just trolling. Time will tell.
I added an edit for more info.
Here's the final installment of the second-hand spoilers.
Your decision to read.

(view spoiler)


message 31: by Val (last edited Jun 03, 2018 12:53PM) (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ross? She can't be talking about herself. The female equivalent of 'philanderer is a vamp or seductress. Anyway, that's my read on that statement from Digital Spy. I suppose it could mean that she will no longer be the object of any 'philanderer! You go girl.


message 32: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Val wrote: "Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ross? She can't be talking a..."
Val, the message to me is no more adultery. I don't see how it could be taken any other way. This is at odds with some spoilers I've read, so either the spoilers are wrong or Eleanor is not being truthful with her fans. I really hope the spoilers are wrong, because my admiration for Eleanor would take a hit.


message 33: by Val (new)

Val Ivey | 50 comments Ken wrote: "Val, the message to me is no more adultery."

I agree and hope you're correct!


message 34: by Trev (last edited Jun 04, 2018 01:51PM) (new)

Trev | 114 comments Val wrote: "Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ross? She can't be talking a..."

Of course HA from the books was a serial philanderer. Not only does WG give us plenty of hints in the text about his predatory nature, but HA readily boasts about it to Demelza. His 'I am despicable' speech to Demelza just before he seduced her was probably designed to excite her rather than put her off. Yet in the TV version his philandering history is omitted. No doubt it would be too distasteful for the TV audience and he would not be seen as a fit person to enter into a dalliance with Demelza.

As for the spoilers, (view spoiler)


message 35: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Trev wrote: "Val wrote: "Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ross? She can't ..."
BBC seems to have taken down your link, Trev... too bad.

I have found multiple references to Eleanor's interview. These are quotes confirming what she said:

Eleanor Tomlinson has spoken about Demelza and Ross’ relationship in series four, following their rocky patch in season three.
'Demelza and Ross have decided to stay together and so [season four is] them recovering from the pain they’ve caused each other and rebuilding their lives together. That’s where we find them - trying to pick up the pieces.

'No more philandering… what is great about Ross and Demelza this series is they’re a unit. She realises what she’s got she’s not interested in a life of cheating or affairs. She loves Ross,' the actress said.

Eleanor has also spoken about how Demelza has to ‘step up’ while Ross is away in London.

'Ross swans off and Demelza has to run everything. She steps into his shoes and it’s amazing how much respect she gets from that. She comes up to some criticism but nothing she can’t handle.'

I post this here because there's a possibility they will be taken down also.
The last comment bugs me at bit, with Ross swans off. It sounds like her character is blaming Ross for leaving Nampara after all her effort in S3 to get him into politics.


message 36: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Trev wrote: "Val wrote: "Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ross? She can't ..."

Unfortunately the link did not work can you be more specific in what was posted, and possible taken down about E2?


message 37: by Bernie (last edited Jun 04, 2018 01:51PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "More spoilers......

After reviewing the spoiler information Ken posted and the various interviews I think I have a scenario that is consistent with all and fills in the blanks. If I have got it right my scenario incorporates what the actors and Debbie have said in their interviews and accounts for the insights Ken provided. In what follows the words in quotation comes from one or another of the various interviews.

(view spoiler)


message 38: by Ken (last edited Jun 04, 2018 10:55AM) (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario, and it would keep Eleanor from lying to fans. Which I can't imagine she would do.

(view spoiler)


message 39: by Trev (last edited Jun 04, 2018 01:46PM) (new)

Trev | 114 comments Ken wrote: "Trev wrote: "Val wrote: "Just a comment about Eleanor Tomlinson's statement regarding philandering. Philandering or a philanderer is a male construct. So, is Ms. Tomlinson talking about Hugh or Ros..."

Here is the link again for episode 2 but if it does not work look in the spoiler for the full text
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/prog...

(view spoiler)


message 40: by Bernie (last edited Jun 04, 2018 01:29PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swans and The Angry Tide.

(view spoiler)


message 41: by Parker (new)

Parker | 33 comments Bernie, from your lips to the gods' ears!


message 42: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swans and The Angry Swan.

I hope your right, Bernie.
(view spoiler)

lol, this thread is pretty boring if you don't read the spoilers. :))



message 43: by Bernie (last edited Jun 04, 2018 02:02PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swans and The Angry Swan. ..."


The scenario works if ....
(view spoiler)


message 44: by Bernie (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Parker wrote: "Bernie, from your lips to the gods' ears!"

NO to DH's pen!


message 45: by Faith (new)

Faith | 60 comments Tanya wrote: "This begins the discussion for Season 4. I need to remind everyone of the rules related to the TV discussions. I admit that I became very delinquent in my moderator duties because I was so turned o..."

Deeds Stella. I need the deeds!


message 46: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Ken wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swans and The Angry Swan.

..."

Bernie, I was going to stop speculating but I received some new info from the same source. Your scenario could still work, but it hints the other direction... Tell me what you think.
(view spoiler)


message 47: by Bernie (last edited Jun 04, 2018 08:55PM) (new)

Bernie | 301 comments Ken wrote: "I received some new info from the same source. Your scenario could still work, but it hints the other direction... Tell me what you think."

I think it is a jump ball.
(view spoiler)


message 48: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "I received some new info from the same source. Your scenario could still work, but it hints the other direction... Tell me what you think."

I think it is a jump ball.
[spoilers removed]"

Bernie, I'm not as understanding as you seem to be.
(view spoiler)


message 49: by Doug (new)

Doug Whitney | 41 comments Ken wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swans and The An..."


I'm new to this forum and enjoying the discussion. Allow me to suggest the following:

(view spoiler)


message 50: by Ken (new)

Ken Cummins | 353 comments Doug wrote: "Ken wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bernie, thanks for putting your big brain to work.... very plausible scenario,.."

This scenario is also completely in tune with the The Four Swan..."

Welcome Doug... glad to have you onboard.... Your spoiler is exactly what Bernie and I are hoping for.
I really don't want to have bad feelings towards Eleanor for what she said in the interview a couple of days ago. She made no attempt parse her words, but flatly stated "no philandering" in S4

I don't have to hide this because it's in the news on several sites.
Again welcome, it's always fun to have new views.


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