Reading the 20th Century discussion
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To Sir, With Love
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To Sir, With Love by E.R. Braithwaite (May/June 2018)
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Apparently, E.R. Braithwaite hated the film version!
Thanks so much, Nigeyb and Susan for setting up this Buddy Read.I'm up to page 73, Chapter 49. I warmed to this book straight away in the first chapter, with Ricardo on the crowded bus on the way to the interview with Alex Florian. The contrast beween the earthy laughing East End women and the young smartly dressed woman and the conductor.
The way the chapters unfold are wonderful.
I am eagerly looking forward to hearing fellow buddy thoughts on this wonderful inspiring book.
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I'll try and locate a copy and will join in.
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The school he teaches at is quite progressive, but it is in a poor part of London. My real issue with the book was due to the slight irony of Braithwaite - while, quite rightly bemoaning the prejudice he faces - using equally offensive language for the pupils in his care. For example, he calls the girls, "nasty little sluts," and has an obsession with describing women's breasts...
That said, it is obviously about changing your opinions and your attitudes and he cleverly ties in his acceptance by the pupils to his own growing respect for them. So, it is about race, about class, and about the era.
Susan wrote: "Braithwaite was a very educated man who has fought for Britain in WWII and then found that he couldn't get a job. He was a trained engineer, but he certainly faced prejudice in finding work and then teaching is suggested to him."Yes, and he was surprised by that reaction. He was probably used to white British people having the best jobs in Guyana, but he probably saw that as a class distinction not as a racial or skin-colour distinction. Very few ordinary ordinary British people travelled to other parts of the Empire and Commonwealth (and when they did, it was mainly to already primarily white countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand), so the only white people he met before coming to the UK would have been of a higher social class.
Susan wrote: "...it is obviously about changing your opinions and your attitudes and he cleverly ties in his acceptance by the pupils to his own growing respect for them. So, it is about race, about class, and about the era."
Yes, very much so. He has to overcome his own class prejudice just as much as other people's colour prejudice.
I suspect your right. Interesting points Val. The other thing to consider is that people from the Commonwealth were taught that they were British and what comes with that are supposedly certain values, fairness, decency etc. Of course, those of us here know the difference between the spin and the truth. I suspect the disappointment in part comes from that too.
My dad left the UK due to racism, he felt that he would never make it here as a black man in Britain.
The colonial administrators wanted to develop an indigenous middle-class, thoroughly immersed in that British culture. It was spin, yes, but it kind of made sense within the colonies and dominions of the Empire and Commonwealth. It did not when those educated non-white British citizens came to the UK and could not take their correct place in the class system.
Sorry what did you say?
Educated people like Braithwaite would have felt like valued members of the British middle-class if they stayed at home. It was moving to the UK which exposed the spin.
Yes, I see what you mean.
Wow! I just read the chapter at the 'trė élégant' restaurant where Gillian experiences racism for the first time and how she reacted to it.
Greg wrote: "Wow! I just read the chapter at the 'trė élégant' restaurant where Gillian experiences racism for the first time and how she reacted to it."I found the aftermath of that incident very strange. I can understand Gillian's anger and frustration, but her outburst and then the conversation between them sounded very stilted and disjointed.
Yes Pamela, I see what you mean. I think there's a lot of strong mixed emotions being processed in that conversation back at Gillian's flat.
The restaurant scene does ask a few questions. How would I have handled it? Should Gillian have confronted the situation with the waiter at the time, instead of later getting angry with Ricky? Was the waiter prejudiced because Ricky is black and Gillian is white, assuming they are a couple? Would the waiter be prejudiced if Ricky was white and Gillian was black? Would he be any different if he thought it was a business colleague dinner? That scenario in the restaurant recalled the scene in the dinner in Five Easy Pieces. Gillian should have done a Jack Nicholson.
The book does establish that there is racial prejudice there in the 1950s but it is not pervasive. There wasn't segregation in the British Armed Forces.
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Gillian didn't have any previous experience of it. She got angry that Ricky didn't react and take charge. Gillian (human nature) didn't appreciate that Ricky had his reasons for not reacting. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, and he didn't create the bloody problem in the first place. The waiter wanted him to react.
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I could see Gillian's point of view though. She was thinking she would have to deal with this if she stayed with him, so it was a shock and something to consider.
Ricky's relationship with Gillian was the weakest part of the book for me. Of course he tells us that she is quite aloof and self-contained, for example not getting involved in the staff room bickering. But he never brings her alive in the way he does with the class. He tells us how he feels about her, but doesn't show enough of her for us to see why. Maybe that's why her behaviour here seemed odd, or maybe Braithwaite has condensed the episode and it no longer hangs together.
Pamela wrote: "...or maybe Braithwaite has condensed the episode and it no longer hangs together."I think that may be the explanation for the stilted, disjointed conversation. (It seemed that way to me too.) The incident in the restaurant happened as described, but the conversation afterwards was actually several conversations over a longer period of time.
Yes that does make sense on further consideration Val
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About the film and how it differs from the book:http://www.british60scinema.net/book-...
The memories of Braithwaite and other teachers by a former pupil in the pdf at the end suggest that the book is not as autobiographical as it seems.
Braithwaite backs away from confrontation in each case, but there are three incidents of racism in the book which were left out of the film (according to the british60scinema page): the job interview, the woman on the bus and the waiter in the restaurant. The film does keep the racist incidents associated with the school, such as Weston's unpleasant remarks and the pupils reluctance to visit a 'black' home and makes one of the pupils overtly racist (which the book does not).That may be partly because the film changes the setting from the late '40s to the late '60s, when people were more used to mixed race relationships, as well as because the relationship with the class is the stronger narrative, but it would change the tone of the book.
This is an article from the BBC news website this morning about US versus European (France and UK) racism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-ca...
His experience suggests that confronting someone's racism can have a positive effect.
As an aside: Doesn't he know that it is much better to buy stamps from the local bar/tabac instead of the post office, unless you really love long queues?
I'm on chapter 7! The book is very good and the section on the job interview really shows what feels like to black when trying for a job.
Yes, that was the one I thought the film really shouldn't have left out. Braithwaite was unhappy that his romance was left out, but that was personal and the problem of reduced job prospects was universal.
Universal after the war-reduced job prospects?
For all as well as black people?
By the way, thanks for the article Val. Interesting, but sadly, this journalist doesn't know much about Black British history or the history of non-whites in Europe. I appreciate that not having segregation in Europe may imply that black people's experience is better in Europe, however this is a deception. The racism in the book connects with experiences of many black people here in the UK from before Windrush and post. The journalist of this article should tell such things to the family of Stephen Lawrence or black people who have been murdered by mobs, or the black soldiers who were not evacuated on the beach of Dunkirk some of who ended up in German camps including Auschwitz or the ones that had their homes fire bombed or the woman in the 1900s who committed suicide as a result of the racism that she received. Much has little to do with mass immigration.
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Talking of the time period - I really didn't realise this book was written in the late 1940's until I read it. I suppose because the film, which I must have seen at some time, was set in a later time. I was a bit traumatised by the idea of a virtual daily school disco though - my mother would never allow me to go to school disco's, so I suppose the positive thing there would have been I'd never have gone to school!
Roisin wrote: "For all as well as black people?"Perhaps 'universal' is the wrong word, because I was thinking particularly of non-whites, but it was true for many disadvantaged groups of people. It was also still true in the late '60s, when the film is set, so the prejudice against mixed-race relationships had largely gone by then, but the reduced job prospects were still there.
I think black people do experience it far worse. Studies on unconscious bias that I've seen seem to suggest this. There seems to be a negative association with black and dark skinned people. Interestingly, according to the British survey on attitudes, something like nearly 70% of respondents stated that they would be uncomfortable if a relative married a black person (African & Caribbean) or an Asian or Arab person, which seemed to me a lot higher than I expected. Like your husband Susan, I have lived here since I was a child and I think he is right, though I think there is still a lot institutionalised racism. Some people think that I'm white or Spanish and sometimes talk to me as if I am white. I work within a predominantly white profession. I see at times how darker skinned people are treated in my working environment for example it is quite shocking. The stereotypes and the expectation of black people are mostly negative. It wouldn't surprise me though, besides the cultural/religious aspect to prejudice/racism, I suspect that there are probably some biological reasons for unconscious bias and prejudice. Just in the same way that we as humans fill in the gaps.
Roisin wrote: "Interestingly, according to the British survey on attitudes, something like nearly 70% of respondents stated that they would be uncomfortable if a relative married a black person (African & Caribbean) or an Asian or Arab person, which seemed to me a lot higher than I expected."I'm astounded and depressed.
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I do agree that expectations of black boys, in particular, in education, is quite a negative one. This is certainly an issue, particularly in secondary schools. Indeed, I have noticed it myself and I often wonder what the answer is. I also feel that many parents, of all races, seem to have an issue with their children being disciplined by schools, which I find difficult to understand.
https://www.theguardian.com/education...
There are a lot in Southampton, where I live now, and quite a few in Weymouth, where I grew up. My junior school friends were girls and I went to an all girls senior school, so I don't know to what extent things were different for boys, but the girls did not seem to be treated differently or behave differently* and there was certainly none of that rubbish about not visiting their houses.*With one proviso, two neighbouring sisters I went to Sunday School with (but not junior school as they went to a convent) were very well-behaved and neatly dressed. My mother would sigh and say why wasn't I more like them. Their parents were Nigerian, but I did not think that was relevant at the time.
In regards to the survey Val and Susan I was a bit shocked too. Let me look for the website...
That is interesting Val, my dad has always been smartly dressed and would shudder at the way many young men were their trousers around their bottom. : )
I'm on chapter 11 of the book and it interesting how Braithwaite has encouraged the young people to take pride in themselves with how they address each other and how they look. There have been a lot of reports of police in America stopping and arresting black people for no reason. It is something that has gone on for a long while but social media has highlighted this more through the use of video and camera phones. Take a look at this article on how some black men are trying to use how they dress as a means of keep the police and trouble at bay.https://mashable.com/2015/08/08/black...
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I recall being very young and in Miami on holiday, where there were lots of police sitting in a cafe opposite our hotel. They kept asking me to talk into their police radio's - British accents obviously being a novelty in the early Seventies! I adored being made a fuss of, as small children do, and have great photo's of me, happily sitting surrounded by Miami's finest :)
That said, it is a shocking realisation of how different our experiences of the people who are supposed to protect us can be. My experiences have all been positive, on the few occasions I have come into contact with the emergency services, but that is obviously not the case for every community.
Yes very interesting article, Roisin.Dressing smartly does seem to raise other people's perceptions to some extent and the historical parts of the article show that it has for a long time. People should be able to wear what they like when they are not at work or school, but there is a prejudice against the hoodie and baggy jeans look. It is particularly serious for young male African-Americans, who might be shot or arrested for nothing more than the way they look, but it exists in the UK as well, with hoodie wearers banned from shopping centres, clubs, restaurants, etc.
(My dad's 'thing' was shiny shoes; he didn't like trainers because you couldn't polish them.)
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Susan wrote: "What did we feel of Braithwaite's own, politically incorrect, language about the girls in his class (and some of the boys)? Do you think he realised the irony at the time - wasn't he, in his way, a..."His language was certainly inappropriate by today's standards, but much of it seemed to be related to tidiness in dress and personal hygiene, an area he seems to have been particularly careful about himself. As he came to understand their circumstances, he loosened up a bit.
I found the language he used to describe local people, including the pupils, unpleasant by any standards, but he did eventually change his attitude as he got to know them (and the pupils changed their behaviour to be closer to his standards).
The word 'slut' is the example I was thinking of where the most common use has changed since then. I remember reading a Barbara Pym novel with another group where many were taken aback by a character describing herself as a slut. I believe she had used mugs instead of teacups or some other heinous 50s housekeeping crime.I agree his language was unpleasant but not surprising for that time. At least he did show he could change, unlike Wilson for example.
To Sir, With Love by E.R. Braithwaite
Thanks to Greg for suggesting we discuss To Sir, With Love
The all-time Classic schoolroom drama - as relevant as today's headlines ...
He shamed them, wrestled with them, enlightened them, and - ultimately - learned to love them. Mr. Braithwaite, the new teacher, had first to fight the class bully. Then he taught defiant, hard-bitten delinquents to call him "Sir," and to address the girls who had grown up beside them in the gutter as "Miss".
He taught them to wash their faces and to read Shakespeare. When he took all forty-six to museums and to the opera, riots were predicted. But instead of a catastrophe, a miracle happened. A dedicated teacher had turned hate into love, teenage rebelliousness into self-respect, contempt into into consideration for others. A man's own integrity - his concern and love for others - had won through.
The modern classic about a dedicated teacher in a tough London school who slowly and painfully breaks down the barriers of racial prejudice, this is the story of a man's integrity winning through against the odds.