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The Fires of Heaven (The Wheel of Time, #5)
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The Fires of Heaven > May Week 3: 29-44 Spoiler Discussion

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message 1: by Jade (Bedtime Bookworm) (last edited May 26, 2018 04:01PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jade (Bedtime Bookworm) (bedtimebookworm) | 124 comments Mod
Remember these are spoilery discussions - so stay away unless you've finished this section! Also, please keep spoilers to the things we know in this section of the book.

Need a reminder? Here are the chapter summaries.

What are your thoughts on this section of The Fires of Heaven?

Favorite parts: Rand and Aviendha accidentally going to Seanchan! Birgitte getting ripped out of the world of dreams and joining us IRL. Mat's role in the battle with the Shaido for Cairhien, even though all he wanted was to run away. SUCH a good section!!

Happy reading!


Scott Flicker | 107 comments I liked the part where Rand and Aviendha go through the gateway. Now Rand thanks they need to get married. Relationships are so funny in this series. Of course Elaine and Min are still in the picture even though he really doesn’t know any of them that much.


Scott Flicker | 107 comments The prophet proclaims a bit strange Justice system in chapter 39. Men that kill are hung but women that kill would only be flogged. I don’t think I picked this detail on a previous read. I don’t think I realized the prophet is really Masema from book 2 until near the end of the series when I read it before


Jade (Bedtime Bookworm) (bedtimebookworm) | 124 comments Mod
I like that Rand and Aviendha part too Scott! I had completely forgotten that when they come out of the igloo there were going to be Seanchan waiting for them. I'm starting to get a few surprises that I don't remember from prior reads. Which I'm very excited about!

Yes, Masema is from the second book - that's what i love about rereading this series :) Jordan is so sneaky with these old minor characters popping up later in the series.


message 5: by Donald (new)

Donald Trail | 34 comments Scott wrote: "I liked the part where Rand and Aviendha go through the gateway. Now Rand thanks they need to get married. Relationships are so funny in this series. Of course Elaine and Min are still in the pictu..."

How did she know how to make a gateway? Also, it seemed oddly out of character for someone who had no problem being naked, from a culture where people have no problem being naked... to suddenly become suicidal when Rand sees her naked. Of course it could be a Ta'Veren thing, but it always struck me as odd.

Did you find the scene to be romantic?


message 6: by Donald (new)

Donald Trail | 34 comments Scott wrote: "The prophet proclaims a bit strange Justice system in chapter 39. Men that kill are hung but women that kill would only be flogged. I don’t think I picked this detail on a previous read. I don’t th..."

This an interesting point. In ancient times I believe that women and men faced the same justice for murder. I think that in more recent times leniency towards women become fairly common... in the English speaking world. Perhaps Jordan is making a comment about our current legal system where women often receive much lesser sentences for the same crime.

Why do you think that Jordan added this particular detail to the book? Could it play a role in the future?


Scott Flicker | 107 comments I think aviendha has a lot of great inner conflict regarding Rand that was building up for a book and a half. So when he saw her naked she freaked out.

I think masema is a mad prophet and that’s why he is doing crazy stuff.


message 8: by Donald (last edited Jun 24, 2018 07:43PM) (new)

Donald Trail | 34 comments Anyone else really find this line from Brigitte to be both compelling and wonderful advice?

"I take people as they are, not as I would like them to be, or else I leave them." - Birgitte

Also, Nyneave delivers the most scathing view of communism I've ever read in a fantasy novel.

"Nynaeve shook her head. She supposed it was one way to find money for the poor. Simply rob anyone who was not poor. Of course, that would just make everyone poor in the end, but it might work for a time. She wondered if Uno and Ragan knew the whole of it. People who claimed they were collecting money to help others often had a way of letting a good bit stick in their own pockets, or else they liked the power that spreading it about gave them, liked it far too much. She had better feeling for the man who freely gave one copper from his own purse than for the fellow who wrested a gold crown from someone else’s. And less for fools who abandoned their farms and shops to follow this . . . this Prophet, with no idea where their next meal would come from."

There is also a section here where Nyneave delivers a scorching rebuff to Masema... who clearly represents a Judeo-Islamic prophet figure... regarding women's dress requirements. It's incredibly important point because all the way up to this scene she very much dislikes the dress she is wearing and how much it shows off. However, her views on modesty come from a very different place than that of Masema and her core belief is that men should not be telling women how to dress.

I wonder if this scene still resonates today?


Jade (Bedtime Bookworm) (bedtimebookworm) | 124 comments Mod
Aviendha doesn't even know how she made that gateway, it was just her natural talent shining through I suppose. It is interesting that the Aiel are so comfortable with nakedness but Aviendha got freaked out by Rand walking in on her. This continues further into the books and my thought is that it comes down to choice. Aviendha is comfortable being naked around Rand as long as she is choosing to do so.

I love that line by Birgitte! I didn't really catch that Nynaeve was commenting on communism but you're so right Donald. I have to say, I'm not that great at drawing real life comparisons from these books (or any fantasy in general) because I tend to get sucked into the world and not really think about how it compares to real life things. Interesting thoughts about how Nynaeve's view on how women dress seem to shift but I agree, in the end Nynaeve thinks men shouldn't have a say in how women dress. I think it DOES resonate today and the current feminist movement.


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