Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels discussion

Six Wakes
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Monthly Reading: Discussion > May 2018 "Six Wakes" Discussion <No Spoilers>

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message 1: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (last edited Apr 30, 2018 09:19PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
May 2018 "Six Wakes" Discussion


message 2: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
I finished it a week ago. liked the pace and style and wasn't able to solve a mystery. The beginning is very well done, gripping the reader


message 3: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
The audiobook is narrated by the author. That's fairly rare. Should make it that much better though!


message 4: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Started reading it today and cannot help but wonder if I am the only one thinking that the beginning is intensely reminiscent of a series called Dark Matter, where a crew of 6 (including a female captain and a Japanese crew member) wakes up on a ship and are trying to figure out what is going on.

Wiki link for those who are not familiar with it (it's a pretty obcure Canadian series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_...


message 5: by Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kateblue | 4070 comments Mod
Not really because these guys know who they are . . . but I see what you mean now that you mention it


message 6: by Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kateblue | 4070 comments Mod
btw, dark matter is on netflix. Or it was. Haven't looked to see what has fallen off of there lately.


message 7: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Kateblue wrote: "Not really because these guys know who they are . . . but I see what you mean now that you mention it"

To be frank there are other parallels to be drawn, but I would not want to spoil the series for anyone.

Other than that the story is engaging so far, though I have a slight problem getting the feel for the character personalities. The fact that they all appear to speak in a similar manner does little to help.


message 8: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
I started it this morning and first impression is that I think I'll enjoy the book. I like the chaos from the start and how we are walking into everything with the characters. I agree with Art on the character's personality, but I'm going to hold off judgments on that.

There is one detail that is kind of bugging me. (I'm not sure if this is a spoiler or not...but I'm going to keep it super vague) They wake up with their memory issues. With that issue, how well would they know each other? They seem to be acting like they know each other pretty well. What do you guys think?


message 9: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "They wake up with their memory issues. With that issue, how well would they know each other? "

Just in case I put in in spoiler tags but it is said quite early in the book:
(view spoiler)


message 10: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
Oleksandr wrote: Just in case I put in in spoiler tags but it is said quite early in the book:

Exactly! That is what I'm trying to say without saying it...ah...screw it, I'll move this over to the spoiler thread.


message 11: by Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kateblue | 4070 comments Mod
I don't think it's a spoiler if it is obvious in the first few pages.


message 12: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
I don't think so either, but I've been known to give out spoilers because I thought it was common knowledge. Apparently, not everyone read Harry Potter and didn't know the fate of many characters before the movies came out...yea...I'm that guy...


message 13: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "Apparently, not everyone read Harry Potter and didn't know the fate of many characters before the movies came out"

I am the one, who haven't read the series yet. But I haven't seen tthe movies either :)


message 14: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
Oleksandr wrote: "I am the one, who haven't read the series yet. But I haven't seen the movies either"

And that's why I don't say anything about anything because of times like this!


message 15: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
In other thread there was a talk of languages and that brought up to my mind a question I wanted to ask Bryan.

In Six Wakes, the audio book version, what was the correct the pronunciation of the ship's name? Was it Dormire as in Door-m-ire (as in ire) or Dor-mi-re as in a verb sleep in latin languages? How did the author pronounce it? I kept seeing it as a verb, which made the whole thing weird.


message 16: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Art wrote: "Was it Dormire as in Door-m-ire (as in ire) or Dor-mi-re as in a verb sleep in latin languages? How did the author pronounce it? "

The first version, ie [dormair]


message 17: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
I see, thanks for satisfying my curiosity. So did you also listen to an audio version of it? Maybe that is why you and Bryan did not seem to mind the writing itself, it is much easier to let a bad sentence slide when you hear it than when it you are staring at it on paper.

I will quote you an example later, don't have the book in front of me at the moment.


message 18: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Art wrote: "So did you also listen to an audio version of it?"

Read/listened - I guess about 50/50 of the book and (maybe after I unconsciously used to the characters) I had no problem with reading the dialogue


message 19: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (last edited May 19, 2018 09:36PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
It's not really the dialogue itself, it's the totally random writing in some of the situations that make either little or absolutely no sense at all. An example of this can be found in this (easily missed sentence when using audio) sentence:

- Wolfgang’s first mistake was whipping his head around to the right to prepare for Hiro’s attack. The dizziness overtook him and he was already falling when the piece of wood came down on the back of his head. He fell hard on his chest, the breath knocked out of him.

* Alright, that is a perfectly bred and raised clone body that has been sculpted and fine-tuned before being woken. The same body that a few hours before this had performed flawlessly:

- Wolfgang unzipped his jumpsuit to his waist and slipped his arms out of it, revealing a black T-shirt and arms with long, wiry muscles.
- Wolfgang swung easily from bar to bar, landed on a balance beam, and walked across with fluid beauty. He attacked every obstacle, from pulling tension strands out of the wall (the total weight estimation came up on a readout on the wall in both Earth and Luna gravities) to holding a handstand for three minutes.

Makes me want to add: Without breaking a sweat he regained his posture and triumphantly spun around to face Paul AND that is when dizziness overtook him!!!!

* How in the blue hell you get dizzy from turning your head too fast anyway? And forgetting that for a moment, why in the god's green earth, would anyone give a flying rat's ass about Wolfgang challenging Paul in ... whatever that was. If there were awards for THE most ridiculous scene ever written in a sci-fi novel, this would be just right at the top of it. I know some of the modern movies feature scenes that make either little or no sense whatsoever, but this one takes the cake.

Alright, besides such (pure idiocy?) sloppy writing, there are also mind blowing inconsistencies:

First mention of the Dormire program is from 211 years ago. The last member of the crew got onto the ship (which was still being built, while other 5 people already signed their contracts, packed their toothbrushes, fed their cats and waited for an Uber for 170 years to take them to the airport) few decades after an incedent which happened 110 years ago. Now call me silly but few decades to me sound more or less like 40 - 50 years. So before the first member of the crew got drafted, at least 150-160 years pass with everyone just holding their breath.

There are as many inconsistencies in the book as there are incoherent sentences. Dialogues are just poor, dull and unimaginative. However strongly I dislike flashbacks ingeneral, I nelieve those were the strongest moments in the book (besides the 3 laws of robo.. I mean 7 laws of clone whatchamacallits), the author's really nailed a couple of situations in them.

This book is enjoyable and I do not mind calling it a nice easy read, but when you pay attention to what is going on and what is being said and the situations that keep happening, you might just drive yourself mad. Especially if you are susceptible to random OCD moments.


Sorry, I seem to have an issue with this book and I cannot write calmly about it. It all spins out of control by the second sentence I type in.

Your thoughts?


message 20: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Art wrote: "* Alright, that is a perfectly bred and raised clone body that has been sculpted and fine-tuned before being woken. The same body that a few hours before this had performed flawlessly:"

Let me play devil's advocate here :)
The body is perfectly bred by with original flaws, like's doc's deformed legs. So it is bred but not sculpted. Wolfgang is nth generation moon resident, who is more graceful in low-g, but not so in high-g (where the fight was). It is likely that his cardio-vascular system isn't well adapted - just like many real life older folks feel dizzy if they stand-up quickly.

And forgetting that for a moment, why in the god's green earth, would anyone give a flying rat's ass about Wolfgang challenging Paul in ... whatever that was.

To show that Wolfgang sees himself as alpha-male, who has to show that he is the dominant one here. Haven't you ever meet bullies that are looking for a fight just to show their prowess?

Timescale is a mess, I agree


message 21: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Oleksandr wrote: "It is likely that his cardio-vascular system isn't well adapted - just like many real life older folks feel dizzy if they stand-up quickly. ..."

Sorry, nice try but no cigar. All the exercises he did we performed in ship's gravitation, the same as in the location where the fight happened. That's a nice attempt on your part, but cardiovascular system doesn't work that way.

Oleksandr wrote: "To show that Wolfgang sees himself as alpha-male, who has to show that he is the dominant one here. Haven't you ever meet bullies that are looking for a fight just to show their prowess?"

Well, I have never met a bully who challenges you to a fair fight. But set that apart for a moment... you have six deaf bodies floating, oozing blood, grotesquely displayed hanged crew member. One of the members is a murderer or maybe there are more... Even if you are extremely well-well-mannered bully, how high would it be on your priority list to go and do handstands on an empty stomach, against the captain's orders.

I see that you are trying to explain away the shoddy writing, but sorry I sincerely doubt the author herself thought it through as far as you have.

Not to mention there are plenty of other instances of inconsistencies and plot holes throughout the book.


message 22: by Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn (new) - rated it 3 stars

Oleksandr Zholud | 3992 comments Mod
Art wrote: "All the exercises he did we performed in ship's gravitation, the same as in the location where the fight happened. That's a nice attempt on your part, but cardiovascular system doesn't work that way."

I maybe wrong, but IIRC, fight was on lower decks, with higher pseudo-gravity, while exercises in 'normal' ships gravity. Moreover, it was when when ship started to spin again, thus even lower gravity is possible (albeit I doubt the author remembered it)

As for the priority list - we assume that people are rational an this is our error :) assume new bodies fire their glands like crazy, making behavior erratic and inconsistent


message 23: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (last edited May 20, 2018 05:53AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Oleksandr, honestly I believe if you have edited Six Wakes it would have been a better, properly enjoyable book.

Alas, Ms.Lafferty's editor was not as talented


message 24: by Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kateblue | 4070 comments Mod
I love following your scientific discussions, guys, even if I don't say anything--too ignorant


message 25: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Kateblue wrote: "I love following your scientific discussions, guys, even if I don't say anything--too ignorant"

I sincerely believe that Oleksandr's put more thought into explaining these scenes than the author herself has


message 26: by Bryan, Village Idiot (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryan | 480 comments Mod
Well, I'm late this party. I'm going to read it all over. Just a quick glance has me interested in what you guys are talking about.

Anyway, Art, to answer your now obsolete question, Door-mi-re. Which is odd, since it is a latin work meaning "to sleep" or something of that nature.


message 27: by Art, Stay home, stay safe. (new) - rated it 3 stars

Art | 2546 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "Well, I'm late this party. I'm going to read it all over. Just a quick glance has me interested in what you guys are talking about.

Anyway, Art, to answer your now obsolete question, Door-mi-re. W..."


Yeah, since I happen to speak Italian, that was the only way I was able to read it. Weird indeed.


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