Love and Ruin Love and Ruin discussion


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Angela, Diane and Esil discuss

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Diane S ☔ Starting May 1st. Hope this is as good as it sounds!


Esil Looking forward to it too. I thought I had an ARC, but I don’t. Fortunately it comes out on May 1st, so I’ll buy it that day for my kindle.

Have a great weekend, ladies. My son is back from university for a few days before heading off for his summer job. And my mother is visiting for the weekend, so it’s a nice family weekend here.


Angela M (On a little break) Reading this first is fine with me .

We have a busy weekend . Today is opening day for my grandson’s little league baseball. There’s a parade at 9 , than his first game . We have his sister’s birthday party at 5 . In between I have to go get a few groceries. My nephew who lives in Arizona is in town and he’s coming for lunch tomorrow so I have to figure out what to have .
Good busy, though, like you Esil , with family.

Diane, system conversions are such a pain ! Hope it goes smoothly.

Gave a great weekend, my friends!


Angela M (On a little break) I’m starting tomorrow. It looks like there are 6 parts . How about 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 ?


Diane S ☔ Sounds great, Angela.


Esil Works for me. Looking forward to this one.


Diane S ☔ I've read the first two parts and while I recognize all the history in this and the amount of research she did, I am finding the writing and the tone rather flat. The love scenes between Martha and Hemingway come out as kind of silly, passionless, though I'm sure the were not. Not liking Hemingway for pursing Mart but then again that was hard life's pattern. I find myself skimming, which does not bode well for the rest of the book. Hope you are both liking this more than I.

Will have a slower reading day tomorrow as the new system goes in effect at work tomorrow and the learning curve begins. Plus these things never go smoothly so I am mentally preparing myself.


Angela M (On a little break) I’m feeling differently than you , Diane . I really like it so far. I loved how the prologue, perfectly sets the world stage - history without feeling like I’m reading history. So far I feel as if I’m reading a memoir.

Already admire her independence and her restlessness and desire to do “something” was visible in the early chapters even before she met Hemingway. I agree about the love scenes - lol .

Diane , good luck with the system change over !


Esil I think I’m probably somewhere between the two of you. I absolutely love the historical setting and I find Martha’s character interesting. I read a bit about her on wiki, and it seems extraordinary to me that a woman found a way to become a war correspondent in those times. Having said that, I think I have a bit of Hemingway fatigue. I just don’t see the attraction. I’m not particularly interested in the scenes between them.

I’m not sure how much reading time I’ll have today. I’m off to a three day conference out of town. Good luck with the changeover, Diane. I hope you’re both enjoying the good weather.


Angela M (On a little break) Esil , I don’t particularly like the scenes with just her and Hemingway either . I think so many women were attracted to him, Martha included because if his fame and probably because of his tough guy reputation. He is a cad to say the least, but I think she portrays him pretty well. But I like the scenes with Dos Passos and the others - really brings to life that literary crowd.
I read Wiki too and I really admire the things she did.

Have a good conference! Hope you have some fun too !


Angela M (On a little break) I finished parts 3 and 4 and still am liking it. As much as I don’t that like Hemingway, a married man is having this affair with Marty, the truth of the is that she is a willing participant in the adultery and has made that choice. Even smart women make stupid decisions about men. As much as I’d rather read about her travels and career, he was a part of this time in her life . I still find her to be fascinating , mostly when she is on her own away from him , as she experiences the horrors of war when she goes to Finland, talks to the Russian pows. She really had some guts and gumption to do this. I admire that she left him to do this. I have to admit I wasn’t as taken when they were together in Cuba, trying to make a perfect love nest when he wasn’t yet divorced. Trying not to be judge of her and focus on her professional achievements.


Diane S ☔ Halfway through part four. Had to laugh when they were in Cuba in the hotel room and she wakes up and looks around and says, Ernest was a pig" I think do in more ways than one but he was admirable in Spain, making sure the Americans had a way out. Martha was definitely an unusual women for her time, how she traveled all over, witnessed so much. Liking it a bit more, or at least I am enjoying the history and the fearlessness of Martha.


Diane S ☔ I think the author did a fantastic job with the descriptions of their time in Cuba. My favorite part so far..

Angela, you will probably finish today but it might not be until tomorrow for me. Things not going smoothly at work, so working longer hours. Are you okay with starting Tin Man on MondAy. Gives Lise time to catch up, and you can read another book in between?


message 14: by Esil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Esil I just finished parts 3 and 4. I continue to love the history, settings (including Cuba) and Martha’s personality and drive, but I really don’t like her relationship with Hemingway. I understand that the author does a good job of describing it, but there’s something about the Hemingway cult that bothers me. I’m really curious to see how the relationship ends.

I hope to finish tomorrow too. Today is going to be busy. Meetings starting at 7:30... I’m likely to start Tin Man on Sunday, but can hold my comments until Monday. It’s very short I notice.


Angela M (On a little break) I like how you put that , Lise - the Hemingway cult - he’s such an egotist !

I will finish today . I think I’ll wait until
Monday to start Tin Man. It is short but maybe we can comment at the halfway point so we can have some chat about it before final thoughts.

Lise, hope you are enjoying the conference. When I was working, I loved going to Library Conferences , one of the things I miss about working- lol !

Diane , hope things get better with the conversion. Stressful trying to get work done and learn a new system that you hope will work!


Angela M (On a little break) I wanted to add that even though we aren’t always in sync in terms of how much of a book we read , I really like our discussions more when we are reading simultaneously, getting your perspectives right after finishing a section.


Diane S ☔ The song, If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with, is a perfectly fitting mantra for Hemingway! Lol.


Angela M (On a little break) Haha - perfect , Diane ! Plus love you pig comment.

I’m almost finished so will comment later or tomorrow.


Angela M (On a little break) I finished it and have rated it 4 stars .

These last two parts were my favorite parts. I loved that she had a great relationship with Hemingway’s sons and it seems that she came to love them. It was at the end that she came to be the independent woman that she was in the beginning when she was in Spain. She seems to find herself again after losing herself in Hemingway’s shadow.
I think McLain did a fantastic job of depicting the time and all of the places and what was happening in the world . The writing is terrific in the scenes in Spain and on Omaha Beach and in many other places. Also a fantastic job of showing the tension and competitiveness between them.

Hope it got better for you both .


message 20: by Diane S ☔ (last edited May 04, 2018 02:31AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Diane S ☔ I'm almost finished and do like the last parts better than the first. One thing to Hemingway's credit is that he took care to see his done, all three of them and as you said Angela, she did too.

Will be back later, after another hellish day at work with my find thoughts.

Link to our next read https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


Angela M (On a little break) Almost the weekend, Diane ! Hope today is easier.

Lise, hope you are enjoying the conference.


message 22: by Esil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Esil Thanks Angela. It’s been busy. I expect I’ll finish this evening, once I’m home.


Angela M (On a little break) I’ve finished my review but will wait until you two comment further to post it .


message 24: by Diane S ☔ (last edited May 04, 2018 03:11PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Diane S ☔ I've finished and did end up likng it quite a bit. Hemingway was in many ways his own worst enemy. He was bipolar, his drinking didn't help, and he honestly could not be alone. He was a talented man and did his best to love his sons.

Martha was amazing, such drive, all the places and battles she personally saw and wrote about. Glad she had the guts and fortitude to leave him, though she did love him. McClain did a great job here, detailing her inner struggle to be something for herself. Heceoukd have sucked her dry.

The author note was wonderful and how much the admired Martha shone through.

Found this picture https://www.google.com/search?q=marth....

Think I will try to find something Martha wrote.

Okay with me if you post your review, Angela. Won't post mind until tomorrow.

Think I finally figured out how to order on this new system. Their server is not big enough to handle the fifty or do libraries in the consortium. Reports take forever to run. They are upgrading St the end of summer, just hope the darn thing doesn't crash before then.

Hope you enjoyed your conference, Lise.


Angela M (On a little break) Diane , glad you ended up liking it too . I agree that he was talented . Loved several of his novels, but obviously had issues .

Martha definitely was an amazing woman .

Glad you got the hang of the system. Hope they can figure out how to accommodate all of the libraries .

Lise, looking forward to your thoughts.

I’ll go ahead and post .


message 27: by Esil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Esil Sorry for being so silent yesterday. It was a busy day with the end of the conference and traveling home. I hope you both have power. We have had very strong winds yesterday, and many flights were canceled. I was lucky to get back home, but I have never seen such big waves on Lake Ontario.

All this to say that I have now finally finished the book. I think I’m going to land on 3.5 stars. I really like Martha and am now interested in reading books by her and even more about her. For me, I’m not sure this is the most interesting period of her life. I just don’t get the Hemingway personality cult, and I can’t get my head around what attracted her to such an egotistical man. I find it ironic that Martha hated that people saw her as significant because of her association with Hemingway, and yet McLain chose to write and focus on that part of her life. It was still an interesting read, and I did love the historical context.

I will write my review, and then read yours.


message 28: by Esil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Esil Here is my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Looking forward to The Tin Man


Angela M (On a little break) We had very high winds yesterday too but not as much rain as predicted. We didn’t lose power but several thousand in the area did . A beautiful day today .


message 30: by Diane S ☔ (last edited May 05, 2018 04:33PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Diane S ☔ We had wind and quite a bit of rain. Sunny and warm today. Glad you made it home okay, Lise.

My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

See ya at Tin Man, there's no place like home! Lol


Angela M (On a little break) Ha - love that ! Tin Man was my favorite because he wanted a heart ❤️!


message 32: by Ayesha (new) - added it

Ayesha Ghafoor I read the love nd I admora Paula skills that how she dig in detail nd wrote bout the wives of earnest Hemingway . I love the way she described events which lead him to tell in love again with someone who also writes


Crystal Toller I loved this book and like all of you greatly admire Martha. I too don't get the Hemingway cult. I actually started reading this book last year and had no idea what it was about but once I started reading it I could not put it down. What she put up with from him was astounding and I was really not surprised she left him (or he left her really, I think). I googled her and read something that said she never spoke his name again and she wouldn't talk about him. I think he hurt her very deeply by leaving her but she went on to surpass him in my opinion. She was such a brave, brilliant woman. I too cannot believe what women put up with to be with him; I just don't get it.


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