2018 April German Author: Buddenbrooks

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family by Thomas Mann is a 1901 novel chronicling the decline of a wealthy north German merchant family over the course of four generations, incidentally portraying the manner of life and mores of the Hanseatic bourgeoisie in the years from 1835 to 1877. Mann drew deeply from the history of his own family, the Mann family of Lübeck, and their milieu. 731 pages

It was Mann's first novel, published in 1901 when he was twenty-six years old.

In 1835, the wealthy and respected Buddenbrooks, a family of grain merchants, invite their friends and relatives to dinner in their new home in Lübeck, Germany. The family consists of patriarch Johann Jr. and his wife Antoinette; their son Johann III ("Jean") and his wife Elizabeth, and the latter's three school-age children, sons Thomas and Christian, and daughter Antonie ("Tony"). They have several servants, most notably Ida Jungmann, whose job is to care for the children. During the evening, a letter arrives from Gotthold, estranged son of the elder Johann and half-brother of the younger. The elder Johann disapproves of Gotthold's life choices, and ignores the letter. Johann III and Elizabeth later have another daughter, Klara.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

OR

Effi Briest by Theodor Fontane is a realist novel published in book form in 1895, Effi Briest marks both a watershed and a climax in the poetic realism of literature. It can be thematically compared to other novels on 19th century marriage from a female perspective. 272 pages

Seventeen-year-old Effi Briest, the daughter of a German aristocrat, is married off to 38-year-old Baron Geert von Innstetten, who courted her mother Luise and was spurned for his status, which he has now improved.

[Beth Buning]

I just requested Effi Briest from the library. Excited to start it!
I picked up North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell in the meantime.

[Brian]

Buddenbrooks is a magnificent novel that I've read twice. Thank goodness as it frees me up to read Effie Briest and Kidnapped. But there's also The Book of Disquiet and I'd reread the 2 Holmes ... there's a cornucopia this month! Good choices!

Last week, I saw my law school friend friend who introduced me to Buddenbrooks in 1977 and told him I was reading Effi Briest. He read it as a German major in undergrad and lamented that, while contemporaries and many scholars ranked it with Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary, Americans are well aware of those two, while Effi Briest remains mostly unknown here. I neglected to tell him I first heard of it on NTLTRC less than 2 years ago.

[Manybooks]

I have always found Theodor Fontane's Effi Briest both amazing and infuriating (but in a good way). When I read this (in German) for university, it was not at first so much the fact that seventeen year old and very much still childish and naive Effi (who has been raised by her family to be like that, mind you) is basically just married off like prized livestock that bothered me, but I personally found it and still find it incredibly distasteful and even creepy that Effi is being married to Baron von Instetten, to one of her own mother's former suitors. I mean, obviously, von Instetten is at almost 40 years of age old enough to be her father, but to me, there is also something not quite comme il faut about asking for the hand in marriage of the daughter of your erstwhile courting interest (and that the Briests agree with basically giving their daughter to the wife's former beau so to speak, that has always kind of made me very very uncomfortable).

Now the rest of my review will be encased in spoiler tags, and just to be honest, the review is analytical and also shows some clear likes and dislikes, in other words, what I love about Effi Briest and what I have always found problematic (and it is also based on the original German version, as I have in fact not read the English language translation).

(view spoiler)[While Theodor Fontane's 1896 novel Effi Briest is definitely and with justification considered a classic and as such a masterpiece of German poetic realism, the author's (and with that also of course the narrator's) at times overtly critical textual distance (which when it materialises does tend to feel and read rather like an emotionless, critical analysis) also renders Effi Briest and by extension author Theodor Fontane himself as somewhat a literary midwife for the development of the 20th century Gesellschaftsroman (novel of society), of novels like Thomas Mann's Buddenbrooks (novels which not only show and tell about scenarios, situations, happenings, but also and actually often first and foremost analyse and discuss these). And indeed, Thomas Mann himself always did consider Theodor Fontane and his oeuvre, but especially Effi Briest, a major literary influence (so much so that it is now pretty well taken as a given that even the name of the family described in Buddenbrooks, that the name Buddenbrooks itself, was actually taken from a family name first encountered by Mann in Fontane's Effi Briest).

Now many critics seem both happy and even rather eager to simply lump Theodor Fontane's Effi Briest together with Gustave Flaubert's Madame Bovary and to claim that Effi Briest is like the former also and primarily (basically) just a novel of adultery, an account of a woman behaving badly (although it is true that in both novels, Emma and Effi are in fact and indeed also shown as both being potential if not actual victims). However, I for one, have NEVER considered the main protagonist, have never considered Effi Briest to be even remotely akin and alike to Flaubert's Emma Bovary. For while one can, I guess, agree with the statement that both Effi and Emma do engage in a an adulterous affair, Effi Briest is always (or at least in my humble opinion) depicted by Fontane as being pretty much a total victim, a naive young teenager, used by both her family (her parents, and then her husband) and later, 19th century gentrified Prussian society for their pleasure, their honour, their social status (no matter if this might harm her, no matter if this might psychologically and spiritually devastate and even kill her), while Emma Bovary really is somene who not only actively and very much knowingly, consciously engages in adultery, but then also with equal calculation poisons herself (although she is in fact pretty much aware that her husband still very much loves her and that her death would majorly traumatise him), is therefore both more active and also more intensely and willfully calculatingly adulterous (and yes, also at times even quite nasty) than Effi Briest is ever shown as really in any way being.

Now while Emma Bovary might in fact and actually indeed be somewhat portrayed by Flaubert as a victim of society as well, of the dictates of society, she also does very much and in my opinion deliberately and actively create her own victims, and her willful suicide by arsenic leaves a husband, who still seems to love her despite everything, in abject agony. But Effi Briest, she is always pretty much simply featured by Fontaine as sad, naive, a bit spoiled, not highly educated, perhaps, but first and foremost, an innocent child, someone who is married off as a teenager and by her own parents to Baron von Instetten and really ONLY for societal reasons (it is very clearly and I think always demonstrated by the author that Baron von Instetten does not in any way truly love or in any ways attempt to understand his young wife and sees Effi primarily as a marriage trophy, as a means for making his status in society more glowing and shining). And although Effi should perhaps (should likely) not have allowed herself to be seduced by Major von Crampas, it is he who actually and deliberately engages in the act of seduction in the first place, it is he who is the original mover and shaker, the person who with knowledge of what he is doing, what he is engaging in, starts the proverbial ball rolling to its sad and tragic conclusions (with both his death and later Effi's death as the result).

And finally, although I have always considered Theodor Fontane's Effi Briest to be both thematically and stylistically superb (I love the back and forth of different modes of expression, from plain objectiveness to subjective speculation, from simple description to detailed analyses, from personal emotional attachment to impersonal detachment), the novel has also never really been a story that I could and would in any way label a personal favourite simply because I actually rather vehemently and personally despise so many of the featured, the presented characters (especially, Effi's parents, who not only marry off their daughter to the highest bidder, but disgustingly and worrisomely also to the mother's former beau at that, and then refuse to see their daughter for almost three years after the scandal, after Effi's affair with von Crampas has become public knowledge, only relenting when it is clear that she is close to death). And yes, with Effi's parents in particular, I generally do seem to see the proverbial red, and while the mother at least is willing to entertain the consideration of at least some culpability on her part, the father never does, never can, considering his and his wife's possible and probable roles in the tragedy "ein zu weites Feld" (too far a field).

Therefore, while Effi Briest is indeed and in fact deservedly a classic and a brilliant literary achievement (and a novel I have always much appreciated for its art, for its literary merit and value), the themes presented and the fact that most of the characters featured are majorly dysfunctional leave me livid and disgusted (that a rather fleeting and in many ways rather insignificant small affair of the heart between Major von Crampas and Effi, that was in fact for all intents and purposes really precipitated by Baron von Instetten ignoring and denigrating his young wife, often leaving her feeling abandoned due to his societal "obligations" due to his career and his constant travels and absences, that this ends up destroying Effi, von Crampas and in many ways also von Instetten, and all because of so-called honour and glory). Three and a half stars for Effi Briest (and while I do highly recommend the novel, I must nevertheless leave the caveat that I for one have not all that much enjoyed continuously reading about such problematic and dysfunctional characters and the "honour" system of Prussian nobility that basically devours and kills, that basically just makes and leaves hapless victims all around). And furthermore, just to say, that I have only read Effi Briest in German and thus do not feel that I can in any way make any comments as to the quality of potential English language translations (but there do seem to be quite a few). (hide spoiler)]

[Manybooks]

I have a question for those readers who have read Buddenbrooks in English translation. How do the translators show the different manners of speech of the upper class (whose members in Thomas Mann's original generally speak standard German) and the servant class (whose members in Thomas Mann's original often speak Platt, speak Low German)?

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Brian
I am glad you are somewhat excited about this month's reads! Effi Briest is on the 1000 books you should read before you die list.
This review helps with maybe understanding better why it is on this list:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/200...

Im thinking it was Rosemarie who first brought it up but not positive.
I have it on my wish list.
Happy Reading Brian!

[Manybooks]

Lesle wrote: "Brian
I am glad you are somewhat excited about this month's reads! Effi Briest is on the 1000 books you should read before you die list.
Im thinking it was Rosemarie who first brough..."

I recommend the book, although I did not like (on a personal) level many of the characters, especially that Effi is being married to her mother's former suitor always kind of makes me cringe. And Fontane is a brilliant wordsmith.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Effi Briest is one of my favourite 19th century novels and Effi is a delightful young woman.
Even though Effi does get married in the book, the title uses her maiden name, unlike Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary.

After you have read the book, you will discover why this is so.

[Manybooks]

Rosemarie wrote: "Effi Briest is one of my favourite 19th century novels and Effi is a delightful young woman.
Even though Effi does get married in the book, the title uses her maiden name, unlike Anna Karenina and..."

It always bothers me that quite a goodly number of readers consider Effi a spoiled brat, sigh. Yes, she is childish and naive for her age, but this is due to her upbringing.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I never got that impression. Maybe it has to do with the translation?

[Manybooks]

Rosemarie wrote: "I never got that impression. Maybe it has to do with the translation?"

It could be, but I never got that impression either, and since I have only ever read Effi Briest in German, I have no idea if in the translation, Effi appears and acts spoiled.

[Manybooks]

Rosemarie wrote: "Effi Briest is one of my favourite 19th century novels and Effi is a delightful young woman.
Even though Effi does get married in the book, the title uses her maiden name, unlike Anna Karenina and..."

What did you think of Effi being married off to one of her mother's former suitors?

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I will save my comments until members have had a chance to read the book, but I will add that there is a character with a name I absolutely think is wonderful-- Alonzo Gieshübler.

I hope everyone will enjoy Effi Briest as much as I did.

And that goes for Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family too. Thomas Mann is my favourite 20th century German author and I am trying to read all his works at least once.
I started reading his books in university in 1973, and have reread some since then.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Rosemarie the one company I love to order my used books online from (as if they disappoint me in anyway they take care of it-no issues, which is nice) only has Effi in German right now. So its on my wish list still!

I do have Buddenbrooks and am looking forward to starting the read soon.

Anyone else thinking about reading Buddenbrooks: The Decline of a Family?

[Brian]

Lesle wrote: "Brian
I am glad you are somewhat excited about this month's reads! Effi Briest is on the 1000 books you should read before you die list.
This review helps with maybe understanding be..."

Yes, Rosemarie had read it and knew all about it, but I thought you had posted the picture of Thomas Fontane in the "Guess the Author" picture game, which I think is where I learned about it. I can still picture Fontane.

[Manybooks]

Lesle wrote: "Rosemarie the one company I love to order my used books online from (as if they disappoint me in anyway they take care of it-no issues, which is nice) only has Effi in German right now. So its on m..."

I am hoping to get to Buddenbrooks, I need to reread it as I read it years ago for university.

[Tony]

Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of the points manybooks makes under his spoilers comments. I have got much more affection for Effi as a character than I have for Madame Bovary.

[Manybooks]

Tony wrote: "Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of the points manybooks makes under his spoilers comments. I have g..."

Me too, I have always felt a bit uncomfortable with regard to Emma Bovary. And I am not a he :-) but who can tell.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Brian wrote: "Lesle wrote: "Brian
I am glad you are somewhat excited about this month's reads! Effi Briest is on the 1000 books you should read before you die list.
This review helps with maybe un..."

Your memory is much better than mine!

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Wonderful Tony!
I enjoy reading the novels with you!

Do you have an idea when you plan to start?

[Tony]

Well, I'm reading the Virginian and Goodbye to Berlin right now so that should take a few days. After that, I'm ready to start when you are ready. what's good for you?

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

I was just telling Rosemarie, I think we might have to work this weekend. Early Vote starts the 10th and we are a bit behind :(

Probably not till Sunday, of thats ok with you?

Oh I hope you enjoy the Virginian as much as I did!

[Tony]

Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of the points manybooks makes under his spoilers comme..."

My apologies Manybooks! Really enjoyed your post.

[Manybooks]

Tony wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of the points manybooks makes under ..."

No need to apologise :-)

[Tony]

Lesle wrote: "I was just telling Rosemarie, I think we might have to work this weekend. Early Vote starts the 10th and we are a bit behind :(

Probably not till Sunday, of thats ok with you?

Oh I hope you enjoy..."

Yes, that's good for me Lesle.

[Brian]

Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of the points manybooks..."

Until I learned otherwise, I also thought you were male. Maybe its because your screen name starts with the word "Man." Aah, the human brain.

[Manybooks]

Brian wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Tony wrote: "Yes I'm in for Buddenbrooks.

I've just read Effi Briest (in english), my second of his following Irreversible. I agree with many of th..."

No problem ...

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

“Ich liebe dich ja… wie heißt es doch, wenn man einen Zweig abbricht und die Blätter abreißt? Von Herzen, mit Schmerzen, über alle Maßen.”
― Theodor Fontane, Effi Briest

[Brian]

"Ich liebe dich ja." I need to use that on my wife.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

She would probably appreciate being told you love her!

[Brian]

Lesle wrote: "She would probably appreciate being told you love her!"

I did know what it meant when I used it. My wife is German on both sides. She didn't know what I said, though.

FINISHED EFFI BRIEST CHAPTER 11

Very much enjoyed the opening section in Effi's hometown with her friends and family. I enjoy Fontane's descriptions and character observations, such as this one about Hulda's parents:

"Pastor Niemeyer was extremely embarrassed at this (his wife's) stream of caustic remarks, with no sense of refinement or propriety, and once more regretted having married his housekeeper."

I find Effi delightful so far but see expected trouble for a marriage formed for practical rather than romantic reasons.
In the next section in Kessin, there are unexpected eerie aspects in the Chinaman and ghost allusions, almost creating a slightly 'Rebecca' atmosphere. Interesting to see if that goes anywhere.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Brian wrote: "Lesle wrote: "She would probably appreciate being told you love her!"

I did know what it meant when I used it. My wife is German on both sides. She didn't know what I said, though..."

Hummm...not thinking that's a good thing, if she has no idea!

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

Anyone in on either of these reads?

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

I have read Effi Briest three times and Buddenbrooks twice and am following the discussions and enjoy reading the comments.

[Manybooks]

Lesle wrote: "Anyone in on either of these reads?"

I have read both books, but do need to reread Buddenbrooks. For Effi Briest, I just reread the book last year (and if you are willing to consider spoilers, you are welcome to check out the musings, the review I posted in message five).

[Brian]

Lesle wrote: "Anyone in on either of these reads?"

Sometimes few members enter into the discussions. I know when I read The Brothers Karamazov last year I felt like the lone reader, even though it had received 20 or so member votes. The other comments were by previous readers like Rosemarie. I treated it like I would a buddy read.
I'd say it was because this month there are 3 translation books to choose from, but the Book of Disquiet discussion is still mainly Rosemarie, who has read the German reads several times.
However, it's still in the first third of the month so others may yet comment. I'm certainly enjoying both Effi and Kidnapped, and look forward to reading Manybooks' comments on this thread when I finish.

[Manybooks]

Brian wrote: "Lesle wrote: "Anyone in on either of these reads?"

Sometimes few members enter into the discussions. I know when I read The Brothers Karamazov last year I felt like the lone reader, even though it..."

I am glad you are enjoying Effi Briest.

[Lesle, Appalachain Bibliophile]

My edition is translated by John E Woods (First American Edition) who actually has won several PEN awards.

So I'm in Part 1, Chapter 1 of 648 pages!

[María]

Lesle wrote: "Anyone in on either of these reads?"

I'm in on Effi Briest, but I'm reading two other books at the moment and I don't know when I'll be able to start with it, maybe in one or even two weeks. I reckon it'll be the first German classic I read.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

Good to hear that, Maria. We have a whole month to read the book, and even longer if you need to, since the discussion threads stay open.
Happy reading.

[Brian]

Lesle wrote: "My edition is translated by John E Woods (First American Edition) who actually has won several PEN awards.

So I'm in Part 1, Chapter 1 of 648 pages!"

Yes, Buddenbrooks is a mini-Hefty! My Oxford edition of Effi Briest is a more easily managed 240 pages, though I'm also constantly reading the notes to understand the historical context. I find the notes very interesting.
The notes enhance what I learned about, such as the Hanseatic League, while reading a non-fiction book about Bach and Frederick the Great.
Yes, with Effi Briest I get both history and her story.

[Beth Buning]

I wonder why Effi Briest is difficult to find in print? There was only one copy shared amongst many local libraries.
I did start it yesterday, and I am curious about the prewedding day described. It sounds like a tradition in Prussia. I wonder what the meaning of the play was??

[Kathy]

I'll be reading Effi Briest but probably starting later in the month.

[Kathy]

I found Effi Briest through thriftbooks.com. It's in paperback form and was only 3.49 + shipping.

[Rosemarie, Northern Roaming Scholar]

That's a good deal, Kathy. I hope you enjoy the book.

[Tony]

Manybooks wrote: "I have a question for those readers who have read Buddenbrooks in English translation. How do the translators show the different manners of speech of the upper class (whose members in Thomas Mann's..."

I'm just starting Buddenbrooks now. My version is the Vintage classic translated into English by H.T. Lowe-Porter. He adds a translator's note at the beginning: -

"..Buddenbrooks is a triumph of style in its own language.....the author has recorded much dialect. This difficulty is insuperable. Dialect cannot be transferred. So the present translation is offered with humility. It was necessary to set oneself the bold task of transferring the spirit and the letter so far as might be; and above all, to make certain that the work of art, coming as it does to the ear in German, like music out of the past, should, in English, at least not come like a translation - which is a thing of naught."

[Brian]

FINISHED EFFI BRIEST -POSSIBLE SPOILERS

I really enjoyed it except I felt I missed the actual affair. There's Effi in the sleigh ride that has Crampas whispering in her ear and covering her fingers with hot kisses. The she's with hubby, there's New Year's Eve and talk about Effi feeling guilty with different people. No description of any affair or confirmation; just Effi being glad to go to Berlin to get away from her temptation. I re-read thinking I missed something, wondering if Crampas got a quickie in the sleigh, which didn't make sense, or whether it was the translation.
Finally, after several inferences at best, there are the letters and a little insight into the affair. .
I would have liked to get Effi's thoughts during the affair, or just some facts so I could make my own insights to what Effi may have been thinking during the affair.
I understand the author wanted to emphasize other social mores, attitudes and the effects rather than the specifics of the affair. I wasn't looking for torrid romantic scenes just more Effi insights.
A great book anyway, just short of a really great book due to my feeling a bit confused during the read.

[Manybooks]

Brian wrote: "FINISHED EFFI BRIEST -POSSIBLE SPOILERS

I really enjoyed it except I felt I missed the actual affair. There's Effi in the sleigh ride that has Crampas whispering in her ear and covering her finger..."

I agree that from our perspective, there really was not much of an affair, but according to Prussian 19th century mores, there was, I guess, and enough for a duel and for Effi to be completely shunned by everyone.

[Brian]

Manybooks, I have no problem in seeing the existence of an affair substantial enough for a Prussian duel, it's just that... to cite a comment much better than I could write from Goodreads user Jr Bacadayan:

"What is curious about the novel is that the adulterous act is never so much as depicted, It goes on for a while in the background with little hints here and there, but the reader can be inclined to attribute it to a playful imagination. It is treated like a ghost to be wary of, always alluded to but never explicitly confirmed. Not until the last few pages is the suspicion set and the heavy feeling substantiated. It creeps slowly, silently, and hovers like smog disguised as mist mingling the spirits of trust and guilt..."

I like Jr's use of the ghost analogy from the story and his depiction of the book as:

"A rare novel that exercises gleeful restraint yet echoes more than the proverbial canon.... It tells the story of a young woman who yields to everything thrown her way..."

I guess I'm saying, while I don't mind the restraint in depicting the adulterous acts, I still wish I knew more about what Effi was thinking during the affair.