Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

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Theological Questions > Old Earth vs. Young Earth

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message 1: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments My conviction is that there is only ONE reason Christians choose to believe in an OLD EARTH ... and that is EVOLUTION .

I am interested in what BIBLICAL reasons believers have to believe in an OLD EARTH .

Please list the Scriptures that lead you to believe the earth is OLD .
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Many FREE resources on our ministry web site: www.Christ-like.net


message 2: by Wade (new)

Wade J. | 177 comments You won't receive any scriptures on and old earth, Robert. You and I both know that. You can only enter the Kingdom on your knees, and some are too arrogant and bow to science as their god instead of the revealed Word of God.

Please remember, however, believers don't need the earth to be young or old. We only need Jesus. Naturalists and those who cater to them argue against your point, which is that evolution has infiltrated the souls of those who believe in theistic evolution and otherwise.


message 3: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Wade wrote: "You won't receive any scriptures on and old earth, Robert. You and I both know that. You can only enter the Kingdom on your knees, and some are too arrogant and bow to science as their god instead ..."

I am sure that no one will provide any Scripture. But as believers, the source of our doctrine is supposed to be the Bible.

Creation is a doctrine of the Scriptures; therefore, I would expect believers to have Bible upon which to build their doctrine of an old earth creation.

But, I agree... no one will quote Scripture to support their doctrine.


message 4: by Rev Steven (new)

Rev  Steven (goodreadscomww9d) | 4 comments But, I agree... no one will quote Scripture to support their doctrine.

Well this is simple and has been discussed for many years. this web site has the basic details as do many others READ IT!!

https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-t...

The question is not did God create the world or when or how.
The Bible DOESNOT discuss the when why how. IT SAYS GOD DID IT. Try this logic. The world exist. Paul says in Romans 1 God did it and from it we know Him. SO GOD Exist!!

The Question IS and always has been DO YOU BELIEVE GOD!!
Yes many have other answers to the creation question BUT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!! THey are WRONG.

This Creation Evolution problem is the very foundaation of CHristian thought, PROVE God did not do what the Bible says he did and there is no God right wrong good Bad, JUST Man doing what he wants too. THis is a serious problem.

THe self Existant Holy God Could have with a single thought brought the world as we know it into existancce, He saw fit to use stages of creation th teach US some lessons. There is a lot in that story. How long or when is not part of it and not important at all.
GOD DID IT ALL.


message 5: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments This is like asking for a Biblical argument for the existence of molecules.


message 6: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "This is like asking for a Biblical argument for the existence of molecules."

NOPE! The Bible is VERY CLEAR with regards to the age of the earth.


message 7: by Rev Steven (last edited Mar 31, 2018 06:30PM) (new)

Rev  Steven (goodreadscomww9d) | 4 comments David wrote: "This is like asking for a Biblical argument for the existence of molecules."

THe Biblical arguement for the existence of Molecules is just the same, GOD DID IT ALL. THe Question is do you believe it or not.

The earth has been here for about 6000 years, but when God made it HE HAS THE POWER TO MAKE IT LOOK AS OLD AS HE WANTS TO. A scientest looking at the world using the laws of physical nature, sees just what he thinks he sees HE IS RIGHT,
GOD MADE IT THAT WAY 6000 years ago. Why is that so hard to understand? God did it,- DO YOU BELIEVE IT??


message 8: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.


message 9: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back."

Is this a verse that you believe supports an old earth???? (As the original post requests)


message 10: by Robert (last edited Apr 03, 2018 12:57PM) (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Rev Steve - God made the earth appear old to trick us????? That's the lamest take I've ever heard on a subject that is silly to begin with. Astrophysics, geology, zoology and paleontology to name just a few sciences, support an old earth, not just evolutionary biology as Robert D. claims. God created the earth and the heavens alright, but it started about 15 billion years ago. In 6000 years, you couldn't even clear all the mold out from a worldwide flood, much less replace all the lost flora and fauna!


message 11: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Rev Steve - God made the earth appear old to trick us????? That's the lamest take I've ever heard on a subject that is silly to begin with. Astrophysics, geology, zoology and paleontology to name j..."

My response: So lots of godless people agree... that makes the Bible wrong????

Matthew 7:14 - "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


message 12: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: " In 6000 years, you couldn't even clear all the mold out from a worldwide flood, much less replace all the lost flora and fauna! ..."

Perhaps YOUR god could not do so... but the TRUE God of the Bible has NO SUCH problems.


message 13: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Yes, I do. See God held back some things and did not give full bent to his spirit and consequently does not say to us how old is the earth, he controls himself.


message 14: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "Yes, I do. See God held back some things and did not give full bent to his spirit and consequently does not say to us how old is the earth, he controls himself."

John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL truth ..."


message 15: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Robert - the Bible does not state how old the universe or earth is. You merely count generations in Genesis and come up with a ballpark figure. This is just as ridiculous as people living 500 years.


message 16: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Robert - the Bible does not state how old the universe or earth is. You merely count generations in Genesis and come up with a ballpark figure. This is just as ridiculous as people living 500 years."

SIX DAYS to Create...
...then add the ages of each person from Adam onward

Time consuming but not difficult


message 17: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Robert - I'm glad you have time to waste in such a fruitless enterprise - some of us like to use our brains for more complex problems; like figuring out the mechanisms of God's Universe.


message 18: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Robert - I'm glad you have time to waste in such a fruitless enterprise - some of us like to use our brains for more complex problems; like figuring out the mechanisms of God's Universe."

Judges 21:25 - "In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes ."

2 Timothy 3:7 - "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ."


message 19: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments The doctrine of Creation is the very first doctrine in the Bible. If God has difficulty clearly communicating this doctrine... how can we trust Him to be able to clearly communicate any subsequent doctrines?


message 20: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Robert - God cannot communicate his precise Creation extravaganza to mortals - even the savviest of us today couldn't understand a word of it. The deed is far beyond human comprehension. So he talked in baby talk to whomever wrote early Genesis and they wrote it down as best they could, given they had NO appreciation of natural laws. I've added my two cents in CREATION STRIKES BACK, but it's only guesswork based on cell biology, paleoanthropology, and the Big Bang Theory. It's closer to thermodynamic reality than the original but, from a Faith perspective, it's not intended as a replacement.


message 21: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Robert, the prophets did not have a clear grasp of the messiah, thought they anxiously waited for him. Just because something is not clear does not mean it can’t be trusted. If you said it does then your logic undermines the whole unfolding of scripture.


message 22: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Robert - God cannot communicate his precise Creation extravaganza to mortals - even the savviest of us today couldn't understand a word of it. The deed is far beyond human comprehension. So he talk..."

THANKS for your OPINION... of course you KNOW BETTER than God!


message 23: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "Robert, the prophets did not have a clear grasp of the messiah, thought they anxiously waited for him. Just because something is not clear does not mean it can’t be trusted. If you said it does the..."

THANKS for your OPINION... of course you KNOW BETTER than God!


message 24: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Thankful we are in agreement. God bless.


message 25: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "Thankful we are in agreement. God bless."

Actually we are not. You claim that God speaks with a lack of clarity. This leads to confusion (which is not from God).

I believe that God wants us to know the truth and promises to lead us into all truth!

True, the prophets did not understand the full impact of their words, but...

Luke 10:24 - "For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see , and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear , and have not heard them."

John 8:32 - "And ye shall know the truth , and the truth shall make you free."

John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth ..."


message 26: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments I didn’t say that. Stawman! Oh wait you’re not open to reason, never mind.


message 27: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "I didn’t say that. Stawman! Oh wait you’re not open to reason, never mind."

If you ever support your OPINIONS with Scripture... I will listen.


message 28: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Robert - and which part of Scripture are we championing today - eye for an eye or love thy enemies? Oh, I'm sorry they're both correct depending on who our moderator wants to convince!


message 29: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Robert - and which part of Scripture are we championing today - eye for an eye or love thy enemies? Oh, I'm sorry they're both correct depending on who our moderator wants to convince!"

Matthew 4:4 - "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God ."
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Luke 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses , and in the prophets , and in the psalms , concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


message 30: by Robert (new)

Robert Core | 1864 comments Robert - which is it? Do we stick to OT, or switch to NT; you can't have both concerning treatment of your enemies.


message 31: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Robert wrote: "Robert - which is it? Do we stick to OT, or switch to NT; you can't have both concerning treatment of your enemies."

Matthew 4:4 - "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God ."
________________________

Luke 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses , and in the prophets , and in the psalms , concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


message 32: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments In his defense the OT and NT do fit nicely together. Private message me and we can talk more about. This probably a poor place to talk about it.

Back to the discussion: I feel like we’re coming from different hermeneutics and mine is wrong because it originates from Myself and not from Gods word while Roberts comes from the Bible, do I have it right?


message 33: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments 2 Timothy 3:16 - " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness


message 34: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Could you answer the question?


message 35: by Robert (last edited Apr 18, 2018 04:39PM) (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "Could you answer the question?"

2 Timothy 3:16 - " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness "


Question answered!


message 36: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments No, the question is did I understand your position correctly? Yes/no? Then you explain.

I feel like your are being what Paul calls “irreconcilable” in 2 Timothy. I’m sure you know the passage since you know your Bible. FYI Romans 12:18 is also helpful in this situation.


message 37: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "No, the question is did I understand your position correctly? Yes/no? Then you explain.

I feel like your are being what Paul calls “irreconcilable” in 2 Timothy. I’m sure you know the passage sin..."


My response: This is my position, are you in opposition to it?

2 Timothy 3:16 - " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness "


message 38: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments Romans 12:18 - " If it be possible , as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."

When people stand opposed to the Word of God... how is peace possible?

What about verses that tell us to contend for the faith and fight the good fight? Should those be ignored? Should we compromise to whatever degree necessary to be at peace?


message 39: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments You know better then to argue with the word of God, unless you think it contradicts itself here. Remember, all scripture is given by inspiration by God....

So did I get your position right? I’m wrong because I’m interpreting genesis 1 according to my own method and you’re using the right biblical method of interpretation? Am i missing something?

We’re trying to get to peace just like the Bible tells us to in Romans 12:18. And no I am not saying there is peace so don’t quote Jeremiah 6:14 thinking it is a nice rebuttal. So come on here, let’s have peace, answer the question. It’s quite simple. If not what’s wrong with it? How have I framed our disagreement poorly?


message 40: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "So come on here, let’s have peace, answer the question. It’s quite simple. If not what’s wrong with it? How have I framed our disagreement poorly?"

My response: This is my position. Which part is it that you do not understand?

2 Timothy 3:16 - " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness "


message 41: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments It doesn’t answer the question


message 42: by Robert (last edited Apr 19, 2018 05:51AM) (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "It doesn’t answer the question"

Sorry... the Word of God is a good answer for me.

What is your position regarding the development of sound doctrine?


message 43: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments But you’re not answering for yourself but we who are reading your words.


message 44: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "But you’re not answering for yourself but we who are reading your words."

No problem... I prefer to stand upon the unshakable Word of God... they are far superior to my own.


message 45: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments They why are you using your own words now?


message 46: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "They why are you using your own words now?"

Attempting to explain to you something that you seem to not be grasping.

Why do you prefer my words to the Word of God?


message 47: by Caleb (new)

Caleb Smith (nicenenerd) Well this conversation has taken a turn for the absurd.


message 48: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments I concur, clearly absurd. Robert likes to say he uses only scripture even though he is clearly is not.


message 49: by Robert (new)

Robert Dallmann (robert_dallmann) | 1569 comments David wrote: "I concur, clearly absurd. Robert likes to say he uses only scripture even though he is clearly is not."

Absurd indeed. It is beyond absurd for a Christian to reject the Biblical parameters for the development of sound doctrine.


message 50: by David (new)

David Pulliam | 63 comments Either you are speaking nonsense or there is a typo in your comment, maybe both. :)


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