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Wurts - Wars of L&S & More > Grand Conspiracy [June 15, 2018]

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message 1: by Scott , Karsa Orlong (new)

Scott  Hitchcock (lostinthewarrenofchaos) | 8082 comments Mod
Bang


message 2: by Laura (last edited Jun 14, 2018 08:23PM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments From Janny:
Side comment, here is some fun for your discussion that you haven't yet broached: cover art.

There is symbolism behind every single element in every single cover art, chapter head, end piece - even in the USA covers that were portrait style and the older style 'landscape' covers done in the UK - every element has a hidden or NOT so hidden meaning.

And the icon artwork too.

All of the details matter not just those set into the words; there is a lot in the images, too.


Now Daniel and I would like to suggest a GAME TIME! - to see if we can identify those symbols and images

Here's what I found on Paravia under cover art:

Curse of the Mistwraith



The Gargoyles – represent the Seardluin - a vicious predator that lived on Athera in the First Age, and was rendered extinct in the Second Age, under Fellowship assistance. They were the 'scourge' of Paravian survival - and the 'gateway' formed between the facing statues signifies the ancient historical conflicts, giving way to the new

Lysaer and Arithon
Lysaer is facing AWAY from the viewer/you are following HIS lead/Arithon is facing the viewer - his priority IS that one on one compassion that he cannot turn from by nature.

Character footing Arithon crouches on top of the Paravian-runed wall = the Paravians accept/embrace him?
Lysaer stands behind them, with the wall/runes at his back = he turns away from the Paravian legacy and is also rejected by the Paravians at the same time?

The Mist - seems to recoil from the Paravian runes and form as if to attack from behind, straight in the middle of that destroyed arch. Why?



The softer light = energy outside the human sight but well within range of mage-sighted talent. Wards

On the walls/pillars - Paravian runes - directional, six sided figures for safeguard, matched to the cardinal points and vectored above and below; an'alt, the configured symbol for infinity, stamped over and over; as well as the symbol for the Paravian Races

The Lightning - What does it strike and why there?


Sword on the background of Rockfell Peak = conflict caused by the Mistwraith


Alithiel


Background - the mountain when the Mistwraith was imprisoned - Rockfell Peak, and what you are seeing 'in the energy' is the Fellowship's working in progress - including the 'interaction' with the clouds.

Ships of Merior


Minderl Bay


Background = Innish?





Arithon's Lyrante with the ribbons - the streamer on the sword and on the lyranthe both signify the entanglement with the Mistwraith's Curse and the bloodshed that mires the characters' actions.


Warhost of Vastmark


The red ribbons on the arrows are the colors of the signals fired from the cliff to orchestrate the action at the Havens. Red - the killing/Yellow - the fire/White the cease fire and for healing.


Background = Vastmark or Dier Kenton?


The raven perched on the sword with the red ribbons on the background of Althain Tower - ?


The raven perched on the sword with the red ribbons - ravens have strong connotations with the aftermath of battlefields - it's a smaller reflection of the mythos - and doesn't just signify War, but the crossing over between life and death. The greater meaning - and there is one, relates but is a whole lot bigger than what happens on a battlefield – to watch out for


The Havens ?

Sword Pointing

In Curse - Lysaer has the sword, or the advantage, Arithon is in retreat, which is why the sword is pointed to Lysaer's side.
The handle is towards the one who's got an advantage
In Ships the sword is replaced by the Lyranthe that Arithon holds = the stalemate caused by Arithon pursuing the path of the masterbard. It is straight on the background of a ship = Arithon's escape plan causes the stalemate

In Warhost the sword points the other way around = Arithon fights back.

Sword facing left/right = Left side and right side have defined attributes - which?

The Sword is exactly positioned in between the 2 princes if you see both covers. (as if cutting between them) = the conflict, the battle begun

Sword - to watch out for in Arc 3

Rose - to watch out for in Arc 3

Raven - to watch out for in late Arc 3 and Arc 4

Note: All the above cover art was done by Janny Wurts and Don Maitz
- Thank you Janny for providing this absolutely gorgeous art for our BR. :)



message 3: by Laura (last edited Jun 14, 2018 08:32PM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Fugitive Prince


Again The Raven and the Sword - this time sword held by Arithon with the Raven perched beside them - Why?
to watch out for


Landscape - the Grimward - Seardluin and Wyvern and again the softer light (energy outside the human sight but well within range of mage-sighted talent. Wards)

Lower left corner - skeleton of a Grand Drake. In between his jaws - Asandir; and riding toward the skeleton's jaws Dakar, Arithon and Felirin


Grand Conspiracy








Note: All the above cover art was done by Janny Wurts and Don Maitz
- Thank you Janny for providing this absolutely gorgeous art for our BR. :)



message 4: by Laura (last edited Jun 14, 2018 07:59AM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Chapter Headings

Warhost of Vastmark

Meaning - Triaxial pattern based on thirds and spirals that don't just radiate but EXPAND as they center - the 3 Paravian Races with EACH a different fuction + the triad/spirals relate directly to Athera's Mysteries - to be followed


Ships of Merior

Meaning - A Compass Rose - not just for the nautical bits but also because in this volume/arc the characters also choose their direction


Warhost of Vastmark

Meaning - The Wyvern - the least of the Drake Spawn


Fugitive Prince

Meaning - The Sunwheel - the symbol of The Alliance of Light


message 5: by Choko (new)

Choko (chokog) | 5362 comments Same here:) Let me first read the book before though:)


message 6: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Hmmm yes in


message 7: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments I’m so glad we’re continuing right away!


message 8: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments I’d forgotten completely the beginning activity and momentum in this book. It takes off in a whirl and really shows how the F7 works. It’s brilliant.


message 9: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments You're starting today Sandra?

I'll be taking a few more days but I'll add the symbol meanings to the pics today. Will you please take a look when I'm done and let me know if you can add any extra info to it..


message 10: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments So I filled in some of the symbols and will do the rest tomorrow. If any of you can contribute to the stuff I don't know and left with ? or not mentioned please give a shout. :)


message 11: by Choko (new)

Choko (chokog) | 5362 comments You are awesome!!! I finally am almost done with the previous book and will jump into this one right away... I hate that I can do it only on my kindle, since I have been so busy with actual work these days and it would have been great if I could have had it in audio to never stop reading it...


message 12: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments I will start soon but I’ve got a few open reads and might put this one down for Monday and then my usual 2 Chapter Sets a day.


message 13: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Awesome Laura! I will be starting tomorrow. I did look at the dates at the beginning of the first and last chapter and noticed a seventeen year spread. (view spoiler)


message 14: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments Laura I actually started as soon as I finished Fugitive Prince but have been proceeding slowly.

I love Janny’s art work and thanks for posting the symbols. I’ve never been that methodical about it. But there’s so much symbolism in the whole saga. I studied Carl Jung for years and the whole thing with the battle of light and shadow is so archetypal and symbolic of our personal journeys through life. Jung saw it in terms of consciousness and unconsciousness. He said the brighter the light the deeper the shadow, as we struggle to understand ourselves and our world, the darkest things get hidden in the shadows. You’ll see how dark slithery things start to gather round Lysaer and Arithon’s comfort with his shadows helps him with his self understanding and his compassion. Interesting.


message 15: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Chapter one
(view spoiler)


message 16: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments Daniel wrote: "Chapter one
[spoilers removed]"


But that’s what they do which is why the F7 oppose them so. It’s completely antithetical to the Law of MajorBalance.


message 17: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Sandra wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Chapter one
[spoilers removed]"

But that’s what they do which is why the F7 oppose them so. It’s completely antithetical to the Law of MajorBalance."


Except they pretend to “ask” permission, or demand future favors for small services. They pretend to help mankind whereas the F7 protects the land. Janny makes sure that when the reader doesn’t like someone-they REALLY don’t like someone!!


message 18: by Laura (last edited Jun 15, 2018 09:49PM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Your comments are intriguing. :)

I'm starting it tomorrow and will try to keep the 2 chapters a day pace.
I'm doing a reread for To Ride Hell’s Chasm also so it will be both books at the same time for me.

@Sandra - I'm looking forward to discovering all that. You have a very beautiful way of explaining.:)

Edit: - Oh. And Q&A thread for Grand Conspiracy is made.


message 19: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments Daniel wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Chapter one
[spoilers removed]"

But that’s what they do which is why the F7 oppose them so. It’s completely antithetical to the Law of MajorBalance."

Except they pr..."


True! As if a 5 year old can give consent. And they refuse to ask consent for things like changing a storms direction, etc.


message 20: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Fugitive Prince clarified for me the actual purpose of the F7 and the Koriani bitches, oops witches. It really hits home when you consider giving your all to help, or TAKING as much as you can. Another great ethical/moral moment from Janny.


message 21: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Chapter two spoiler...(view spoiler)


message 22: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments Yes! Yes! Daniel!


message 23: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Sandra wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Chapter one
[spoilers removed]"

But that’s what they do which is why the F7 oppose them so. It’s completely antithetical to the Law of MajorBalance."
..."

True! As if a 5 year old can give consent.

I AGREE! Give up your life (view spoiler)


message 24: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments I seem to be a bit more impulsive than you people so here are my reactions to the first chapter:

What! ....Oh Shit! ....No, no, no! This cannot happen! .....It's just sick! ....... That horrid slimy BITCH!
(view spoiler)

And then comes Lysaer. The Prince Exalted!!! (view spoiler)


message 25: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments Laura wrote: "I seem to be a bit more impulsive than you people so here are my reactions to the first chapter:

What! ....Oh Shit! ....No, no, no! This cannot happen! .....It's just sick! ....... That horrid sli..."


Lol and yes!


message 26: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Yes and lol ditto!


message 27: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Daniel wrote: "Chapter two spoiler...[spoilers removed]"

I agree. That was impressive.


message 28: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Chapter 2

Next to what Daniel mentioned, I think I didn't actually realise till now that the F7 would need to (view spoiler)


message 29: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 179 comments No, I was completely blown away by the Cattrick ship thingie.


message 30: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments I didn’t expect that either.
@Laura The explanations for many things seem to be forthcoming:D. It does seem that Janny is peeling the layers of an onion-slowly we seem to be getting a more comprehensive picture of what was and what is to come. Enjoying this book-hating Lysaer and the Koriani!


message 31: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments I agree with you Daniel. piece by piece she slides the clues into place.

Chapter 3

Not much to say except that Lysaer is a master manipulator and the Koriani are sorry excuses for human beings.


message 32: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Chapter 4
So Lysaer (view spoiler)

That can't be good at all and I have to wonder - would Arithon be able to do the same?


message 33: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments And we open with a repeat of the prophecy from the last book.

Chapter 1: Well, aren't the Koriani lovely. (view spoiler)


message 34: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments Chapter 2: Wow (view spoiler)


message 35: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments @ Laura (view spoiler)
This is where a question to Janny would be appropriate lol

@Olivia it seemed to me that you would have to be an expert in ship design to know that the ships being built had a flaw.


message 36: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments @ Daniel it was pointed out in the chapter that they’d know which confused me. So I might just have to re-read that bit.


message 37: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Not saying I am right. I was just going by the convo between Cattrick and Mearn. Might be another Janny question lol.


message 38: by Laura (last edited Jun 18, 2018 08:25PM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Regarding the ships in Chapter 2 - from what I understood from the conversation with Mearn
(view spoiler)

Or at least that's how I understood it and that's why I also felt like laughing out loud.


message 39: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments Chapter five confusion (view spoiler)
Never spent this much time thinking about a book. Lots of fun these buddy reads!


message 40: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments @Daniel - regarding Cerebeld - spoiler for chapter 4
(view spoiler)

But I also agree we ahould ask Janny if we got both this and shipyard right. Perhaps when she returns from her trip.


message 41: by Daniel (new)

Daniel | 1536 comments @ Laura yes thank you agree.


message 42: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments @Laura: that’s how I understood it as well.


message 43: by Laura (last edited Jun 19, 2018 01:25AM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Chapter 5

GOOD GOD! Why did they have to (view spoiler)

In connection to your spoiler Daniel
(view spoiler)

Cerebeld and Lysaer - does it just seem to me or they are (view spoiler)


message 44: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Olivia wrote: "@Laura: that’s how I understood it as well."

Oh. Good.😁
I asked Janny anyway just in case we missed something.


message 45: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments Re chapter 4. I had this discussion with my writing group yesterday what superpower would you want...and one of my friends said, slight spoiler for chapter 4 (view spoiler)


message 46: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Olivia wrote: "Re chapter 4. I had this discussion with my writing group yesterday what superpower would you want...and one of my friends said, slight spoiler for chapter 4 [spoilers removed]"

Sounds perfectly plausible to me.


message 47: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments First chapter of Chapter Set 6

I'll be going back to read the rest of it also but I just badly needed to blow off some steam 😤😠😡
Because...

Why?! That slimy slithering pathetic excuse for a human being, Lysaer - who thinks himself above everyone else!!! A solid slap is nothing compared to the trashing he deserves!!!

(view spoiler)


message 48: by Laura (last edited Jun 19, 2018 04:31AM) (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments Up to the end of Chapter Set 6

This book is really full of surprises. And yet again I have to say: I didn't see that coming.

(view spoiler)


message 49: by Olivia (new)

Olivia (vinjii) | 1071 comments I can't wait to get to the next two chapters now.


message 50: by Laura (new)

Laura (lauradragonchild) | 6215 comments @Olivia - I wonder if you'll feel the same. :)


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