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Return to Order: From a Frenzied Economy to an Organic Christian Society
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Past Voting > April 2018 BOTM - Results

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John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
We have a winner! The April 2018 BOTM will be Return to Order: From a Frenzied Economy to an Organic Christian Society, by John Horvat. I am looking forward to it.

Three books didn't receive any books this month and of those the Randomizer chose Life and Select Works of Peter of Alcantara for deletion.

The two books that will be added to the nominations list for next month are: Sword and Serpent, by Taylor R. Marshall and The Spiritual Combat, by Lorenzo Scupoli.

In the meantime, still lots to discuss in Pearce's C.S. Lewis and the Catholic Church.

For those interested, the final tally was:

Return to Order 5
On the God of the Christians 3
Champions of the Rosary 2
Looking for the King 2
Story of a Soul 2
The Life of St. Catharine of Siena 2
The Return of the Prodigal Son 2
Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican 2
The History of the Church 1
Second Friends 1
The Gunpowder Plot 1
Toward the Gleam 1
A Martyr for the Truth 0
The Myth of Hitler's Pope 0
Life and Select Works of Peter of Alcantara 0


message 2: by Jill (new)

Jill A. | 656 comments I'm going to sit this one out. I've always had a hard time following threads of reasoning in the field of economics, and I'm at the age where following any argument can become cumbersome.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Thank you! I look forward to reading the book and joining the group.


John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
Elizabeth wrote: "Thank you! I look forward to reading the book and joining the group."

Welcome to the group, Elizabeth. We look forward to your joining us in the discussion.


John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
I am interested in how others are finding the book. To say I am underwhelmed is an understatement. If I was reading this book on my own I would have put it to one side already.

If others are reading it and want to continue, I will finish as well. And will get some discussion questions up.

If others are having a similar reaction to mine, we could:
- read the second place book
- run a snap vote to pick a replacement book for April
- take a break for April

Let me know how you would like to proceed.


message 6: by Kerstin (new)

Kerstin | 100 comments John wrote: "I am interested in how others are finding the book. To say I am underwhelmed is an understatement. If I was reading this book on my own I would have put it to one side already.

If others are read..."


My husband started reading the book some time ago, and he was equally underwhelmed. So you're not alone. I haven't read it. Though this makes me wonder if I even should bother.

Still, I haven't actively participated much here, and it should be the decision of the regular participants to make the decision on how you want to proceed with this read.


Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
Underwhelmed is the word. I have read a little less than one sixth of the book and have found it rather below what I expected.

I also have bought "On the God of the Christians," so I'm ready to start with the second place book. Or whatever decision everybody prefers.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

I stared and it reads like a very long essay. As I just joined the group I do not how you usually proceed, but I would be happy to move on to choice #2!


John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
Elizabeth wrote: "I stared and it reads like a very long essay. As I just joined the group I do not how you usually proceed, but I would be happy to move on to choice #2!"

This is a bit of a first for us, Elizabeth. I thought I would ask because I was one of the leading proponents of the book and it is definitely not delivering what I was hoping for. Horvat seems to believe that frenetic intemperance explains everything. I am reminded by Mancur Olson's point that if an economic explanation explains everything, it probably doesn't explain anything. And, the difference between frenetic intemperance and the normal everyday sinful intemperance that has afflicted all human beings since the fall seems to be that the former is, well, frenetic.


message 10: by John (new) - rated it 2 stars

John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
We seem to be of one mind, but five people voted for Return to Order and I am hesitant to abandon the book without giving them a chance to be heard. I will send out a group message, alert everyone to the proposed change and give everyone an opportunity to object.


Manuel Alfonseca | 1420 comments Mod
John wrote: "Horvat seems to believe that frenetic intemperance explains everything. I am reminded by Mancur Olson's point that if an economic explanation explains everything, it probably doesn't explain anything..."

Yes, that's what I thought too, that Horvat falls in the same trap where so many other economists and politicians fell: assuming that the world can be completely explained through a single independent variable.

I wrote a short post about this trap in my blog, although I was speaking about politics rather than economy:
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2015...


message 12: by John (new) - rated it 2 stars

John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
Manuel wrote: "John wrote: "Horvat seems to believe that frenetic intemperance explains everything. I am reminded by Mancur Olson's point that if an economic explanation explains everything, it probably doesn't e..."

Nice post. I posted my score there, though I am surprised it didn't show a stronger libertarian tilt. I also suspect that certain moral views are equated with authoritarian tendencies, but that will have to wait for when I have the time to delve into the Compass more.


message 13: by Mariangel (last edited Apr 02, 2018 05:38AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mariangel | 518 comments I am fine with moving on to "On the God of Christians".

I've read about 1/4 of the book. The captions under the pictures that repeat a statement of the book, do so in a way that makes me feel that the author does not believe he made his point and needs to repeat it, in exactly the same words. It's like those 4 page letters asking for donations that could be just 1 page long but keep repeating and underlining sentences -this style puts me off.


message 14: by Jill (new)

Jill A. | 656 comments Since our library doesn't have God of the Christians, it will take some time to order and receive. Sigh.


message 15: by Raul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Raul (angelicdoctor) I’ve taken the initiative to read Return To Order in its entirety and found it immensely relevant to our present crisis in the Church and the wider world. Based on the 2000 year history of the Church, Mr. Horvat provides timely solutions to our modern problems. I’d highly recommend a continued reading of this great work that is much needed in our times.


message 16: by John (new) - rated it 2 stars

John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
Raul wrote: "I’ve taken the initiative to read Return To Order in its entirety and found it immensely relevant to our present crisis in the Church and the wider world. Based on the 2000 year history of the Chur..."

With such a strong recommendation from one of the folks who voted for the book, I don't think it would be right to drop it at this point. We will continue with Return to Order and I will try to get initial discussion questions posted in the next day or so.


message 17: by Jill (new)

Jill A. | 656 comments maybe we can read God of the Christians next month without voting?


message 18: by Mariangel (last edited Apr 03, 2018 05:32PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mariangel | 518 comments I would also support reading God of the Christians in May.


message 19: by John (new) - rated it 2 stars

John Seymour | 1830 comments Mod
Jill wrote: "maybe we can read God of the Christians next month without voting?"

I think we should have a vote, but I suspect it will have pretty good support this time.


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