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Olórin the wise - his influence in the Quest of the Ring

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message 1: by Anelise (new)

Anelise Golin stampfer | 5 comments He walks among the Children of Ilúvitar unseen or disguised, secretly putting into their hearts fair visions and promptings of wisdom.

Interesting is that if one listens to him, one wakes from despair and darkness leaves you.

So here is a theory: How much influence did Olórin have in the quest of the Ring? Did he send Faramir and Boromir the dream? Did he help Aragorn with counsel in his difficult decisions? Was his the positive influence that lightned up Sam's spirits at darks times? Was Frodo listening to Olórin when he decided to trust Sméagol?

The possibilities are endless, but how likely is this theory?


Mary Foxe (fargreencountryswiftsunrise) There definitely was some Valar interference when it came to Faramir and Boromir's dream. I don't know about the rest, but this is an interesting theory.


Jamie (sotellmedarling) | 9 comments I don't know if you are aware of Olorin's identity as another character in the books (I only just made the conscious connection myself during this reading), but I would say, yes, I believe that he may have had a hand in the visions that Boromir and Faramir had. I think it makes sense based on Olorin's description as well as his other concise involvement. Some might debate though that his involvement was less supernatural after a certain point and that he wouldn't have the ability to give actual visions. (sorry if this is a vague comment - I don't want to be a spoil sport if you're not sure of Olorin's other identity and want to find out for yourself.)


Jamie (sotellmedarling) | 9 comments Oh but I also wanted to say that I do think it's his supernatural influence possibly at work beyond what Tolkien explicitly says.


message 5: by Anelise (new)

Anelise Golin stampfer | 5 comments Upon further research, turns out Olórin is in fact Gandalf... so he did have a BIG influence in the matters of the Ring! Not the way I had imagined it...

None the less we can still ask ourselves:
1) Did he send Faramir the dream? We know both were fond of each other and Faramir learned much from Gandalf.
2) He did help Aragorn (and many more) with consel, but not as an unseen force.

3)We know Frodo and Gandalf had a certain "telepathic" conection, for Frodo dreamed of Gandalf's flight from Orthanc as it happened and he also felt the moment when the wizard returned to Middle-earth after his battle with the Balrog.

I guess the deeper question now would be:
Is this mystical power of influence in wisdom lessened when the Mair takes up a body in form of an Istari? Or were his visions always given in a more corporeal way, with words and counsel?


Mary Foxe (fargreencountryswiftsunrise) Sorry, I mixed up characters.

A point though from Gandalf. "There are other forces at work in this world Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought."

There is definitely some divine intervention. The Valar may not directly deal with evil anymore, but they certainly are not going to let the world they love fall to pieces without interfering a little.


Jamie (sotellmedarling) | 9 comments Foresight is so often described in the books as a gift. It even comes across as a genetic thing (e.g. Aragorn's grandmother and mother are said to have the insight of their people - paraphrased). So I wonder if that also comes into play in the case of Faramir and Boromir's dream or if dreams (at least for those without the gift) are only limited to a supernatural force causing it - even if indirectly. After all, Frodo had his dreams in Tom Bombadil's house and Tom seems like a supernatural character and I assumed it was the influence of his power that caused it. Maybe Gandalf's influence in Gondor led to Boromir and Faramir having the dream. On the other hand, Sauron also had a sort of supernatural stronghold in Gondor also through the Palantir so it could maybe even be a combination of both.


message 8: by Anelise (new)

Anelise Golin stampfer | 5 comments I stumbled upon this post by askmiddlearth on tumblr (http://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/post/...)
that states that Istari were deliberately stripped of thier powers before being sent to Middle-earth.
I find that extremely interesting as it does answer some of my question about how Gandalf's powers seems to be less than the ones described in Olórin.

Almost I feel, like had he kept his power to influence minds unseen, he could have achieved victory over Sauron sooner... any ideas?


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