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Phineas Finn
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message 1: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Hello and welcome to the second novel in the Palliser series. As mentioned earlier, we will begin discussing the week of Jan 7th and will spend 10 weeks on this particular novel. I have given us a few extra pages for the first section as I sometimes find that Trollope gets off to a slow start so I'm giving everyone some extra notice to get their copies and get started. I've also divided more along page numbers rather than chapter numbers so don't be fooled! Looking forward to our discussions in the New Year!

Jan 7-13: Chapters 1-8
Jan 14-20: Chapters 9-16
Jan 21-27: Chapters 17-23
Jan 28-Feb 3: Chapters 24-30
Feb 4-10: Chapters 31-37
Feb 11-17: Chapters 38-46
Feb 18-24: Chapters 47-53
Feb 25-Mar 3: Chapters 54-62
Mar 4-10: Chapters 63-69
Mar 11-17: Chapters 70-the end


message 2: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments All right! I read about three-quarters of this last year, so maybe for once I won't fall WAY behind the group.

For the record, I didn't ditch it because of non-enjoyment.


LiLi | 269 comments Hoping to join you for this one.


message 4: by LindaH (new) - added it

LindaH | 97 comments Looking forward to the second book.


message 5: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Glad you can join us-I read this many years ago and am looking forward to the reread.


message 6: by Rosemarie, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rosemarie | 2803 comments Mod
I am in for this one too.


Renee M | 747 comments I loved this book the first time around. Really looking forward to reading it with this group!


message 8: by Phrodrick (new)

Phrodrick Since we are now actively reading Phinaes Finn,

A few notions perhaps barely at the level of bread crumbs of thought.

We all began Can We Forgive Her thinking we knew who needed forgiving and for what. By half way we has several candidate ‘She’s, who may have needed forgiveness for any of several things. By the end it was clear that perhaps none of the ‘she’s were in need of any forgiveness and that maybe a different game was afoot.

With that turn around in mind
1. Please do not skip over the fox hunts. It may not be what brought you here, but they are more than the only actual movement in Trollope.
2. Politics. In CWFH it is all backdrop, but these are ‘the political’ novels. Can we be positive that the only politics are those in the House of Commons and in the borough elections? Can it be that the important politics in these novels are the politics of the heart? Who marries who and why? The domestic politics and the social and economic facts of marriage. Can these be the real political focus of Mr. A?

For those whose interest is nothing but the purely romantic aspects of the various paring, there is certainly much to keep your minds occupied. The suggestion is that there may be a larger picture being woven than that which begins and ends with boy meets girl and boy and girl marry.


message 9: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Hello-I'm just checking in with everyone as the discussion has been a bit quiet-are people still reading along? Should I slow things down?

For some unforeseen circumstances I've fallen a week behind in the reading-is everyone OK with our adjusting the schedule to reflect that?

Would love to hear some feedback on who is still reading/hoping to read this with us.


message 10: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments I would love some time to catch up.

Although I read three-quarters of this last year, I went back to the beginning for the purposes of this discussion... and stalled.

When I set a book aside, it doesn't usually mean that I'm not enjoying it. I've set aside books of which I loved every page .

Personally, I adored Violet Effingham and thought the Kennedy-Lady Laura nightmare marriage was very well handled.

I haven't paid much attention to the threads, but I didn't think there was enough discussion of the Radical leader.. whatever his name is. I always thought he was a bit like Bernie Sanders.


message 11: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments I'm actually currently ahead of schedule because I was racing through chapters a couple of weeks ago; but as Dutch classes have now started, I've slowed down and will probably end up basically on track.

I've been following the discussions, but they've been pretty quiet. I'm afraid to post too much, as I dont want accidentally to post a spoiler.


message 12: by Lori, Moderator (last edited Feb 19, 2018 06:05AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Goshert (lori_laleh) | 1322 comments Mod
Frances wrote: "Hello-I'm just checking in with everyone as the discussion has been a bit quiet-are people still reading along? Should I slow things down?

For some unforeseen circumstances I've fallen a week behi..."


I'm a bit behind too. On chapter 40 or so, I think. I'm enjoying the book, but I have a lot of work on a tight deadline, and it hasn't allowed me to do my "fun" reading the last few weeks.


message 13: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Thanks for your feedback-in that case I'll just continue a week behind in the schedule so we all have a bit of a chance to catch up.


message 14: by Robin P, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Robin P | 2115 comments Mod
I'm fine with it, as I got behind last week while on a trip and was rushing to catch up on 2 weeks.


Brian Reynolds | 701 comments I understand Elizabeth's situation. An advantage of the scheduled sections should be that if you get behind, it really doesn't matter as you just avoid the discussions ahead of where you are at.
To me, it is more difficult when you read ahead of the discussions because:
1. It is tough to remember previous sections weeks later and
2. You might accidentally post a spoiler;
I tried making notes to post later, but that didn't work well, so I now wait several weeks to start these Trollope books and then catch up. Unfortunately, even with pacing myself, I finished chapter 46 and thought I was a week behind, but instead I've caught up since we are slowing down.
I have just started a third book, which is my max to juggle, which should slow me down.


message 16: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Is anyone else reading the Oxford World's Classics edition? Normally, I love these editions, but this one has twice included major spoilers in the explanatory notes. The final explanatory note managed to include one spoiler each for two subsequent books in the series. Groan...


message 17: by Robin P, Moderator (last edited Feb 21, 2018 08:57PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Robin P | 2115 comments Mod
Horrible! I have learned to avoid the Introductions in the various classics editions because they always have spoilers. I wonder if those who create them assume everyone has read the book once already. Or they are snobs who think the plot shouldn't be that important to the reader. I was in grad school for literature with some of them.


message 18: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments I always save the Introduction for last for the same reason, but these were in the notes at the end that explain archaic language, historical context, etc., which I always read at their noted time because they enhance my understanding of the book. Normally, I love the Oxford editions; but I'm seriously annoyed that they did this.


message 19: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Robin, I can't believe someone would think the plot was immaterial. I know you may remember plot point on a reread, but the first time around? I bet it was important to the Victorians.


message 20: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Brian, thanks for your post. I raced ahead because sometimes life happens and I end up falling far behind, so I thought I'd better take the opportunity while I had it. I was continually behind on CYFH, and I don't think I ever caught up to the group's pace. :P

Through some miracle, I've actually finished the book, so I will be conservative with posts. But I do want to continue to check in to see what everyone else has to say!


message 21: by Robin P, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Robin P | 2115 comments Mod
Elizabeth wrote: "Robin, I can't believe someone would think the plot was immaterial. I know you may remember plot point on a reread, but the first time around? I bet it was important to the Victorians."

I agree, I was being sarcastic. And I agree with you about the notes, they should only clarify references to historical events, quotations, etc. The Penguin classics generally have those and they don't include any spoilers.


message 22: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments I thought you expressing a bit of exasperation with the snobbery of those who would assume we should have already read the book, and we're just here for a critical experience.


message 23: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Does anyone know when we're starting with _The Estate Diamonds_? I'm trying to squeeze in a couple of books in-berween, and it would help to know how much time I have.


message 24: by Frances, Moderator (last edited Mar 19, 2018 03:10PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Hello Elizabeth-as we're just finishing Phineas Finn this week (a week late) I think we might start The Eustace Diamonds (the next book) around April 15th-does that work for most people?


message 25: by Robin P, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Robin P | 2115 comments Mod
I'm fine with whatever the group decides.


message 26: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Wonderful autocorrect on my last post there. April 15 is OK with me. I will just have to be speedy about the Austen juvenilia volume I was planning to start. :) I think I can catch up even if I have to start a little late.

It'll be fun to read this again. the first time I read it was in the late 90s, when I'd somehow missed that it was part of a series. :P


message 27: by Dan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Dan | 86 comments I'll be here, once I file my Taxes.


message 28: by Dan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Dan | 86 comments Elizabeth wrote: "Is anyone else reading the Oxford World's Classics edition? Normally, I love these editions, but this one has twice included major spoilers in the explanatory notes. The final explanatory note mana..."

Translator Notes — OK to read
Introduction (by Author) Read.
Introduction to book by some else. Read after book. Or skip.

You don't need an introduction to understand the book. You just need to read it, and you will figure it out fine.


message 29: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Explanatory notes are _not_ an introduction. They are like _footnotes_, but come at the end. I usually do find them useful for historical and literary references, etc.


message 30: by Christopher (last edited Mar 20, 2018 07:21AM) (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments I think it was a note to something by Trollope, where the editor had a footnote explaining who George Washington was.

As the reviewer who noticed this said, "Thanks, dude."


message 31: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments My footnotes will be read after George Washington is forgotten.

Yes. But not until then.


message 32: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Doubtless your superior intellect and education render this a practicable choice for you. Certainly are you to be lauded for your accomplishments. For us of the unwashed masses, sometimes a little extra explanation is necessary.


message 33: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments I think explanatory notes can be helpful, but is it elitist to think that George Washington needs no footnote, or hyper-elitist to imagine he does?


message 34: by Phrodrick (new)

Phrodrick Christopher wrote: "I think explanatory notes can be helpful, but is it elitist to think that George Washington needs no footnote, or hyper-elitist to imagine he does?"

Strictly hypothetical: What can we imagine the 'market penetration' is among lets say all English speaking peoples is or should be or should have been for a minor military man and politician in a remote part of the world ?

In Trollope's Day America was hardly a world bestriding power. It hardly demanded more than token recognition as a home for hayseeds, violent and other wise rude people.

The Civil War was hardly an argument for many prep school courses on America. In England, the American Revolution was a brief if unpleasant and rather minor remote happening of no lingering importance to Great Briton. May sound like sour grapes, but much of that attitude still can be found in Merry 'Ol


message 35: by Christopher (new) - added it

Christopher (Donut) | 150 comments George who?


Brian Reynolds | 701 comments Frances wrote: "Hello Elizabeth-as we're just finishing Phineas Finn this week (a week late) I think we might start The Eustace Diamonds (the next book) around April 15th-does that work for most people?"

I'm interested in the planned end date for The Eustace Diamonds so I can plan my own start date. With Phineas Finn, I started late and still ended up finishing too far ahead.
It's not that I read fast, it's just that I have no self-discipline. Like many others, I do multiple reads, but unlike others I still find myself reading the Trollope more often than my other books. I grab for the dessert rather than eating my veggies.
So, since we seem to do about 8 weeks per book, will we likely end in mid-June?


message 37: by Lori, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Goshert (lori_laleh) | 1322 comments Mod
Brian wrote: "I grab for the dessert rather than eating my veggies."

Haha! H.P. Lovecraft's stories are my current dessert, but I have to be careful not to have dessert close to bedtime or I will have nightmares!


message 38: by Brian (last edited Mar 28, 2018 10:20AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Brian Reynolds | 701 comments Lori wrote: "Brian wrote: "I grab for the dessert rather than eating my veggies."

Haha! H.P. Lovecraft's stories are my current dessert, but I have to be careful not to have dessert close to bedtime or I will ..."


Yes, I'd call Lovecraft the Devil's Food of book desserts.
Actually, my late brother was a big Lovecraft fan and, after your comments, I have just now ordered the Kindle of his complete works, which at $0 fits nicely into my budget. I may not read after sundown though, just to be safe. So, thanks!


message 39: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Brian wrote: "I'm interested in the planned end date for The Eustace Diamonds so I can plan my own start date. With Phineas Finn, I started late and still ended up finishing too far ahead.
.."


I would estimate that we'll complete The Eustace Diamonds around the end of June-it's about the same length of PF and we took 10 weeks for that. I, too, find that I often end up following the reading schedule for the first few weeks while I get into the book and then at some point find myself racing ahead to the ending.


Brian Reynolds | 701 comments Thanks, Frances. That helps. I look forward to hopping aboard The Eustace Diamonds discussion train some weeks after its departure.


message 41: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Trollope readers-when would people like to start the next novel, Phineas Redux? Would you like to
a) Start early July, a couple of weeks after finishing The Eustace Diamonds.
b) take a summer break, and start in early September.

I'm posting this question in several of the discussions, feel free to answer wherever you find it!


message 42: by Rosemarie, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rosemarie | 2803 comments Mod
I have finally started Phineas Finn. I am really far behind the group but my goal is to catch up by early in 2019.
I am enjoying the book so far, end of chapter 9.


message 43: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Yay! Hope you like it! Aren't you rereading?


message 44: by Frances, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Frances (francesab) | 1820 comments Mod
Looking forward to hearing what you think-we’ll try not to reply with spoilers after 2 books of Phineas’ adventures!


message 45: by Brian (last edited Oct 10, 2018 07:28AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Brian Reynolds | 701 comments Rosemarie wrote: "I have finally started Phineas Finn. I am really far behind the group but my goal is to catch up by early in 2019.
I am enjoying the book so far, end of chapter 9."


I've heard the Pallisers travels well and is excellent reading for a European trip and cruise.


message 46: by LiLi (new) - rated it 3 stars

LiLi | 269 comments Brian, do you know what the rationale behind that is?


message 47: by Brian (last edited Oct 10, 2018 03:41PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Brian Reynolds | 701 comments Yes, the Guardian article said its Trollope's light touch and wit, even when dealing with serious political and historical issues, that makes it such a good travel read.

Actually. the truth is I'm only encouraging Rosemarie to read it on her current European trip and cruise. But maybe she should be reading Zweig, as she did, since she is in Austria.


message 48: by Rosemarie, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rosemarie | 2803 comments Mod
The last time I read Phineas Finn was in 1978!

I read the Zweig book on the weekend, in one day because it is so good.


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