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message 1: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (last edited Oct 19, 2017 01:04PM) (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Friendly warning; There will be open spoilers in this thread, so you may not want to take part if you are early in your Heyer reading career.

With the rereading of GH's works I'm noticing two things - how many grey eyed hero & heroines there are & how most of the brothers, especially of the heroines, are unsatisfactory. I do think this does come from GH's real life where she ended up financially supporting her two brothers for a good bit of her life.

Some are more flawed than others. For me the worst are Kit (who assaults Deb) & Sheila's unlovely brother in Why Shoot the Butler?

Genuinely supportive I can only think of Charles in Regency Buck (& then Worth supports Charles in AIA. & Jessamy (Frederica) does as much as a sixteen year old can do.

Edited to fix my usual typos.


message 2: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) If you are including heroes' brothers then John Carlyon can go on the plus side (The Reluctant Widow), while young Nicky is unsatisfactory - but Nicky has more good points than similarly aged Harry from Frederica.


message 3: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Rosina wrote: "If you are including heroes' brothers then John Carlyon can go on the plus side (The Reluctant Widow), while young Nicky is unsatisfactory - but Nicky has more good points than similarly aged Harry..."

I'd forgotten John & Nicky. I don't see Nicky as unsatisfactory though - young & rash, but well intentioned.

I also think Bertram (Arabella) will have learned his lesson.


message 4: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Rosina wrote: "If you are including heroes' brothers then John Carlyon can go on the plus side (The Reluctant Widow), while young Nicky is unsatisfactory - but Nicky has more good points than simil..."

I too like Nicky - but killing your cousin must come on the debit side of the argument, even if he started it! Richmond, on the other hand I dislike. And I'm not sure if he's learned any lesson - other than how the law can be defied if you're posh enough!


message 5: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Ah, but Richmond will now have Hugo as a far better mentor than his (revolting) grandfather or Vincent. But definitely not a brother that Anthea can rely on.


message 6: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Ah, but Richmond will now have Hugo as a far better mentor than his (revolting) grandfather or Vincent. But definitely not a brother that Anthea can rely on."

Not really. Hugo will be in Kent (or is it Sussex), and Richmond is being packed off to the army, where he may find army life isn't all frogged dolmans and pelisses. Fortunately the war is over, so he won't have so much opportunity to lead his men into disaster, then involve everyone else in rescuing them.


message 7: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
I think Richmond will still feel his influence. Whether an army in peace time will be what Richmond wants is another matter!


message 8: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Sir Hugo in Talisman Ring was not too bad. A bit thick headed, but he certainly wasn't a financial drain on Sarah, and jumped to her defense toward the end.


message 9: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
❇ Critterbee wrote: "Sir Hugo in Talisman Ring was not too bad. A bit thick headed, but he certainly wasn't a financial drain on Sarah, and jumped to her defense toward the end."

I am forgetting some of the good ones, aren't I?


message 10: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Sir Geoffrey in Lady of Quality was overprotective and overbearing, but manageable.

I rather liked him, blustering guard dog that he was.


message 11: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "I am forgetting some of the good ones, aren't I? "


Well, the fact that they all have issues does support your initial post, haha!


message 12: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments Well Adam was the good brother in a civil contract.


message 13: by QNPoohBear (new)

QNPoohBear | 1273 comments She also really liked the gambling brother trope and used that a lot. I dislike how Evelyn in False Colors just up and disappears, leaving his twin to do his duty and then screws everything up by coming home at the wrong moment.


message 14: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Amy wrote: "Well Adam was the good brother in a civil contract."

I'm thinking of Adam as the hero. A brother is a secondary character. :)


message 15: by Andrea AKA Catsos Person (last edited Oct 19, 2017 06:40PM) (new)

Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments I really liked Venetia’s relationship with her young scholarly bro Aubrey.

He was rather absorbed with his scholarly pursuits, but I thought he and Venetia loved each other and had a really good understanding and respect for each other. They got along very well together while alone on bro Conway’s estate while he was away, though it was their childhood home.

Aubrey didn’t hold older sis Venetia in contempt as some younger bros might.

I think when Venetia’s SIL and awful Mrs. Scorrier (?) arrived, Venetia was thinking of making her home to keep house for Aubrey while he was a fellow (?) until he married.

Oldest bro Conway thought enough of Venetia to leave his property and business matters in her hands while he was away. I didn’t get the feeling that Venetia’s relationship with Aubrey was replicated with Conway.


message 16: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I really liked Venetia’s relationship with her young scholarly bro Aubrey. "

That's right! I had forgotten about Aubrey! He was a pretty complex secondary character, I think.


message 17: by Andrea AKA Catsos Person (last edited Oct 19, 2017 07:06PM) (new)

Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments Rosina wrote: "If you are including heroes' brothers then John Carlyon can go on the plus side (The Reluctant Widow), while young Nicky is unsatisfactory - but Nicky has more good points than similarly aged Harry..."

I don’t think Nicky was/or would be as careless about important matters as Harry was, though both were “sent down.”

Nicky made a better impression on me than Harry.

Edit.

I forgot that Nicky killed his cousin :0

I still think Nicky better than Harry if he hadn’t killed anyone.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments ❇ Critterbee wrote: "Sir Geoffrey in Lady of Quality was overprotective and overbearing, but manageable.

I rather liked him, blustering guard dog that he was."


I really felt Annis’ pain over what a big nuisance her bro was. Very controlling. But that’s the time period. As an unmarried woman I guess bro thought he should “protect” Annis from herself. I was annoyed by him because I thought her sensible and he didn’t give her any credit for good sense.

If I’m wrong, I’ll need to read this book again.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments QNPoohBear wrote: "She also really liked the gambling brother trope and used that a lot. I dislike how Evelyn in False Colors just up and disappears, leaving his twin to do his duty and then screws everything up by c..."

Speaking of “gambling bro” trope, I just finished short story “Hazard” in Snowdrift and Other Stories Snowdrift and Other Stories by Georgette Heyer where the gambling bro makes his sis get up out of bed, dress and be put up as a stake for a gambling dice game “Hazard.”


message 20: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "
I really felt Annis’ pain over what a big nuisance her bro was. Very controlling. But that’s the time period. As an unmarried woman I guess bro thought he should “protect” Annis from herself. I was annoyed by him because I thought her sensible and he didn’t give her any credit for good sense.

If I’m wrong, I’ll need to read this book again. "


I think you're remembering it correctly. To put it without any sugar coating, he basically spied on her, tried to discourage her independence, and thrust his family on her in order to prevent behavior that he didn't approve of. But under that he was loyal and protective. Why does 'spied' look wrong. It is spelled correctly, isn't it?


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments I agree! “spied” does look wrong.

I think “flier” looks wrong too!


message 22: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "where the gambling bro makes his sis get up out of bed, dress and be put up as a stake for a gambling dice game “Hazard.”

Ok there is a worse brother than the Faro's Daughter Kit!


message 23: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
Abigail's brother in Black Sheep (can not remember his name) was a snotty piece of work, too!


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments What about the spying elder bro in Black Sheep Black Sheep by Georgette Heyer ? Was it Jsmes or John?

Older bro was married to a disagreeable woman, Cornelia. Cornelia had a “bosom bow” in Bath named Mrs Ruscomb who is odious and reports to Cornelia, Abbey and Selena’s activities in bath and then Cornelia tells James, who scolds his 29 year old and late 30 or 40 year old sister’s on how to behave in Bath.

That contemptible man won’t even perform his own spying. He gathers third hand intelligence and proceeds as if he heard it from God himself!

Everyone in Bath hates Mrs Ruscomb and avoids her. She makes herself even more odious by inciting visits from bro James to deliver homilies about propriety and how his spinster sister’s should behave in Bath. By a meddlesome, boring, bilious, priggish bro James.

I suspect Cornelia wears the pants in James’ house.


message 25: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2594 comments Mod
That is so funny that we both cannot remember his name.

Perhaps because we both had a low opinion of him.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments ❇ Critterbee wrote: "That is so funny that we both cannot remember his name.

Perhaps because we both had a low opinion of him."


That is funny I can’t recall bilious older bro name. I’ve reread that book so many times!


message 27: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie Scuitto | 261 comments I woul1 put Gillie's cousin and Tom in Sylvester as being a lot like good brothers.


message 28: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) A side issue, which mention of Tom Orde brings to mind ... If as stated Squire Orde had an income of £16,000 a year, wouldn't that have made him such an excellent match that even Phoebe's step-mother would have been eager for the match? As an only child he'd be better off than Mr Darcy!


message 29: by QNPoohBear (new)

QNPoohBear | 1273 comments I rather like Aubrey too and I think he and Venetia have been alone so long, they've learned to get along. However, Aubrey is self-absorbed as teenagers tend to be and I don't think he gives much thought to his sister except for how her relationships with her suitors affect him. Edward Yardley is most definitely NOT an option but Jasper, with his magnificent library and lots of money to travel to ancient places IS an option. As far as brothers go in Heyer novels though, Aubrey is a good one.

Conway, on the other hand, is lazy. He lets Venetia run the estate because she always has. I don't think their father ever did anything except hole up in his study and be grouchy. Conway sends his bride and her horrid mother off to England without him because he doesn't want to be there to deal with the fuss. I think he would get along with Harry in Frederica. They both have managing older sisters they are content to let rule the roost while they go off and do young and stupid things.


message 30: by Rebekah (new)

Rebekah (rebroxanna) | 34 comments ❇ Critterbee wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I really liked Venetia’s relationship with her young scholarly bro Aubrey. "

That's right! I had forgotten about Aubrey! He was a prett..."


Aubrey is one of my favorite characters in all of Heyer. I wish Heyer would have written a sequel featuring him. I wonder what kind of woman her would have ended up with?


message 31: by QNPoohBear (new)

QNPoohBear | 1273 comments Rebekah wrote: "
Aubrey is one of my favorite characters in all of Heyer. I wish Heyer would have written a sequel featuring him. I wonder what kind of woman her would have ended up with.."


None. His ambition is academic. He is to become a Fellow and then he'll become a Don at Oxford and I believe they were not allowed to marry.


message 32: by Elliot (last edited Oct 25, 2017 10:06AM) (new)

Elliot Jackson | 275 comments Rebekah wrote: "Aubrey is one of my favorite characters in all of Heyer. I wish Heyer would have written a sequel featuring him. I wonder what kind of woman her would have ended up with?

One of my pieces of fan fic I am working on intermittently involves Conway's death in a hunting accident (leaving his widow with several daughters), and Aubrey's realization that not only is he now the heir, and has to give up his academic post, but that everyone, even Venetia, now expects him to MARRY. Hilarity (of a sort) ensues!


message 33: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4233 comments Mod
Elliot wrote: "Rebekah wrote: "Aubrey is one of my favorite characters in all of Heyer. I wish Heyer would have written a sequel featuring him. I wonder what kind of woman her would have ended up with?

One of m..."


Message me when/if you are ready to share your fan fic, Elliot & I'll set up a folder for you! :)


message 34: by Elliot (new)

Elliot Jackson | 275 comments Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Message me when/if you are ready to share your fan fic, Elliot & I'll set up a folder for you! :)

Ha, ha, Carol, I'll have to dust it off and see how it holds up! : )


message 35: by Rebekah (new)

Rebekah (rebroxanna) | 34 comments QNPoohBear wrote: "Rebekah wrote: "
Aubrey is one of my favorite characters in all of Heyer. I wish Heyer would have written a sequel featuring him. I wonder what kind of woman her would have ended up with.."

None. ..."


How unromantic of you! ;-)


message 36: by Carolm (new)

Carolm | 62 comments I like Robin in the Masqueraders and Freddy is a pretty steadfast brother to all his siblings as well.


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