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Isaac Asimov
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Book Cover Help > Säätiö (Foundation) 1st ed has wrong cover

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message 1: by Cassandra (last edited Oct 18, 2017 12:50PM) (new)

Cassandra (cassanj) | 4919 comments Marko wrote: "Finnish editions of the Foundation series books by Isaac Asimov use the rather boring 2nd or 3rd edition covers which I think are pretty boring compared to the classical 1st edition covers. This is..."

There is a definite rule about this. You would benefit from reading the librarian's manual, particularly the part about adding or deleting cover images. Existing cover images, should rarely, if ever, be removed, and doing so without good cause violates Goodreads policy. Covers are edition specific, and are not to be used interchangeably. I would proceed very cautiously when it comes to this, and if you're unsure, please post in the librarian's group to ask.

Cover image policy- https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4...

Full librarian's manual- https://www.goodreads.com/help/librarian


message 2: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Sorry, I somehow missed the Empire 1st edition which has the correct cover but Foundation has the wrong one, it's from the 2009 3rd edition. The correct 1st ed cover is this: https://www.risingshadow.fi/libdb/ima...

Unfortunately the accepted Finnish sources show the wrong cover (the same one as shown in the 1st ed here), that picture is from a scifi fan site. I can vouch for that cover because I own a copy.

I deleted my original post as I hoped to rephrase it before someone reads it..


message 3: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments Fan sites are not allowed as sources for covers and other book info, see the manual.


message 4: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Yes, I already read that. That was just to show what it looks like.

I guess I need to take a picture of the cover of my copy at some point, would it then be possible to change it. That's what the manual says but I'd like to be sure as there's also the "not possible to change cover" part.

I'm just confused because that latter rule means literally that even if there is a clear error such as in this case the cover still can't be changed?

--quote--
Replacing or removing the cover of an existing edition, including the covers of advance reader copies, is in violation of Goodreads policy.
--quote--
and
--quote--
There is only one exception to the rule about removing a cover from an existing edition: any obvious placeholder covers may be removed or replaced.
--quote--
So there is nothing about replacing a wrong cover, the only exception is listed on the second quote.


message 5: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments Only if the cover is very obviously wrong (for another title and/or author, wrong publisher on the cover, image is not a cover) may it be replaced. Otherwise we will have to leave it as it is.

In this case, that most probably means adding an Alternative Cover Edition with your cover photo.


message 6: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments I'm still a bit confused: there have been three editions of Foundation in Finnish. They all have the same cover here, the one from the 3rd edition (paperback). I own a copy of the 1st ed and that's also the one shown on the fan site I linked above.

These are the three editions (links go to one of the accepted sources):
https://fennica.linneanet.fi/vwebv/ho...
https://fennica.linneanet.fi/vwebv/ho...
https://fennica.linneanet.fi/vwebv/ho...

As you can see, 3rd ed has the image that Goodreads shares for all three editions:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

Not only does it not make any sense that three editions spanning almost 25 years has the same cover, the 1st cover looks totally different from the other 1st ed Foundation series books, such as this:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

If this isn't enough proof I can link to second hand stores that sell the first edition, they also have the correct cover. All three editions have a different ISBN so this is not true either:
--quote--
If you find that a book with a specific ISBN is already listed with a different cover, it is likely the ISBN was reused for a later/earlier reprinting.
--quote--

Darn, I could actually only find one copy for sale (the book is quite rare, and this one sells for 120€ and it's borderline collectible as it has quite a lot of markings inside):
https://www.huuto.net/kohteet/asimov-...

"painos" means "edition" in Finnish.


message 7: by Marko (last edited Oct 18, 2017 02:13PM) (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Now the cover image for the 1st ed has been changed to an English cover of some edition?

Edit. And now it was changed back?


message 8: by Cassandra (last edited Oct 18, 2017 02:16PM) (new)

Cassandra (cassanj) | 4919 comments Marko wrote: "I'm still a bit confused: there have been three editions of Foundation in Finnish. They all have the same cover here, the one from the 3rd edition (paperback). I own a copy of the 1st ed and that's..."

Unfortunately, unless you have absolute, definitive proof that a particular cover was never used on a specific edition, the cover image must stay; then we create the alternate cover editions.

I did revert a cover change on one of the editions that had been changed without a saved change comment, but it looks like it originally had the cover image for an English language edition, which was obviously incorrect; I reverted back to the Finnish cover image.

I think in this instance, it would be best to create the alternate cover editions for whichever editions you feel are inaccurate.

Marko wrote: "Darn, I could actually only find one copy for sale (the book is quite rare, and this one sells for 120€ and it's borderline collectible as it has quite a lot of markings inside):
https://www.huuto.net/kohteet/asimov-..."


And that's not a site from which we can use cover images or any data for that matter, unfortunately.


message 9: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments See my comment #5: Only if the cover is very obviously wrong (for another title and/or author, wrong publisher on the cover, image is not a cover) may it be replaced. Otherwise we will have to leave it as it is.

None of these apply for the cover in question, so it may not be replaced.


message 10: by Cassandra (new)

Cassandra (cassanj) | 4919 comments Marko wrote: "Now the cover image for the 1st ed has been changed to an English cover of some edition?

Edit. And now it was changed back?"


Yes, I noted in my reply (message #8) that I had reverted a cover change, but it reverted to an English edition cover, which was obviously incorrect, so I've reverted it back.


message 11: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Just out of curiosity, what would constitute definitive proof? If I contact the publisher via email can someone else understand Finnish and would that reply suffice? If they can't help there are a small number of people in Finland who can be considered experts on these matters, would one of them be enough?

And Cassandra, sorry for not seeing your reply, I was in the middle of replying so the page did not refresh.


message 12: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42459 comments Mod
Marko wrote: "Just out of curiosity, what would constitute definitive proof?"

For a cover that matches the title, and does not have a different publisher's name visible on the title, pretty much nothing. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


message 13: by Cassandra (new)

Cassandra (cassanj) | 4919 comments Marko wrote: "And Cassandra, sorry for not seeing your reply, I was in the middle of replying so the page did not refresh. "

No worries, Marko, I've done the same thing many times myself!


message 14: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Rivka, that's true. I could get a dozen second-hand bookstore owners testify that they have never seen a first edition book with that cover. I could contact 50 libraries and none of them would have a first edition book with that cover. I could contact national library which receives a copy of every book published in Finland but they might have misplaced their copy with that cover. So, once someone manages to send the wrong image as the cover for a book, well, that's gospel then. Just like you can't prove to me unicorns don't exist or that the Earth is not flat.

None of the accepted sources even list a cover for 1st ed (yes, I have checked) which begs the question where was that cover picked from? It doesn't look like someone took a picture. So where's the proof that this IS the right cover?

It's obvious what happened here: the correct cover simply isn't available from an accepted source so someone decided to post the only cover that was. Which again begs the question why is fixing this kind of errors so hard? I'm worried that there are more old Finnish books with the wrong cover simply for the same reason: it was easiest to pick a cover from a contemporary version because they are readily available.

Ah, btw, just noticed that the cover says "WSOY pokkarit" at the left-hand bottom corner. Now, I don't know if that's proof enough but the 1976 first edition book was not a "WSOY pokkari" ("pokkari" is Finnish slang word for a small size paperback - 1st ed is listed on Goodreads as hardback). So it looks like that picture is from the publisher's website. This website also states that this cover is from the paperback version (which was published in 2009).

This is the picture from the publisher's website in question: https://elvis.bonnierbooks.fi/file/DB...

(Hope that link works, you have to actually search first and then you get a link for downloading the picture.)


message 15: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments I admire your tenacity :)

I absolutely agree with you that if "pokkari" means "mass market paperback", it has no business being on the cover of a hardback edition.

In my not so humble opinion, the cover of the first edition may therefore be replaced with your cover photo of that edition.

(About the other two editions: the 1986 edition has a different cover than the other two. Look at the placement of the publisher and author name, plus it has "sci fi bestseller" on it. So that one may actually be correct?)

Marko wrote: "It's obvious what happened here: the correct cover simply isn't available from an accepted source so someone decided to post the only cover that was. Which again begs the question why is fixing this kind of errors so hard? I'm worried that there are more old Finnish books with the wrong cover simply for the same reason: it was easiest to pick a cover from a contemporary version because they are readily available."

You can be sure of that. It is an endless source of frustration to me that a database that purports to be as accurate as possible would make it so ridiculously easy for people to upload covers, and well nigh impossible to have them removed if they are wrong.

I have seen so often that people don't care whether it's the right cover for the edition, as long as it has a cover it is OK by them. (A 1978 edition from my own collection has a cover on GR that wasn't published until 20 years later. All the proof I gave wasn't enough.)


message 16: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments Mass market paperback is a good translation for "pokkari", as that's exactly what it is. Books available in supermarkets and kiosks.

As for the 1986 edition you could be right but I have no info on what that cover looked like. Actually, that fan site I linked above does say that that edition was indeed a "best seller" edition. The three editions they list are:
1. painos: WSOY, 1976. Sci-fi -sarja. Sidottu.
2. painos: WSOY, 1986. Best seller. Päällys: Heikki Kalliomaa. Nidottu.
3. painos: WSOY, 2009. WSOY pokkari. Päällys: Heikki Kalliomaa. Nidottu.

"Sidottu" means hard cover and "nidottu" means paper back (they are not literal translations, the Finnish words pertain to how the pages are or more accurately were attached to the cover, "sidottu" means literally "bound").


message 17: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments So let us know when you have taken a photo of your copy, then we can replace it. I don't want to remove the cover until I can replace it with the correct one. Adding a change comment is very important in a case like this!


message 18: by Marko (new)

Marko (makistos) | 13 comments I'll let you know. Might take a while because I need to build a lightbox to get a decent shot and I lack the materials.


message 19: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13731 comments I always put the book flat on a table with enough daylight but away from direct sunlight, hover my iPad (or camera) above it and take a few photos (without flash). I will crop and edit two or three of those and pick the best one to upload. I'm generally happy with the results :)


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