Wheel of Osheim [Apr 1, 2018]

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

This is a Buddy Read for The Wheel of Osheim by Mark Lawrence starting April 1, 2018.


Here's a link to a BR the group did for this book in 2017: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Choko]

Spot...

[Virginie]

Anyone reading this? I'll start a bit late as I want to finish my current read first.

[Zaara]

I'm here, Virginie. Just posted for you on Liar's Key. I will start this AND King of Thorns AND Way of Kings on 10th.
Yowza!

[Anni]

You know you're crazy Zaara, yeah? 😂

[Zaara]

Anni wrote: "You know you're crazy Zaara, yeah? 😂"

Oh come now, daaaaaaaahlin' would you really have it any other way?
There is always a method behind the madness tho and my reasons are often boringly sane.
In this case, logistical :-P
I'm not home and ALL these books are.

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "I'm here, Virginie. Just posted for you on Liar's Key. I will start this AND King of Thorns AND Way of Kings on 10th.
Yowza!"

Saw, answered :)
Take it easy though. I now have a mental image of you (as a stick person as I don't know what you look like) frantically juggling with books and yelling "YOWZAAAA" 😆

[Zaara]

😂😂😂😂😂 I literally laughed out loud.
Far be it from me to mess with your mental images by providing you a more accurate self-portrait...now how could I even compete with the kind of awesomeness that goes on in your imagination?

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "😂😂😂😂😂 I literally laughed out loud.
Far be it from me to mess with your mental images by providing you a more accurate self-portrait...now how could I even compete with the kind of awesomeness that..."

Haha :)
If you must know, you have a rose instead of a head because of your profil picture...

[Virginie]

Zaara, I just went to the King of Thorns to read a little their thoughts and there's some great discussion going on thanks to the 2 chapters a day thingy.
What do you think of doing the same?

[Zaara]

Virginie wrote: "What do you think of doing the same?"

Sure!
Two chapters a day sounds amazing. Shall we start tomorrow? I'm afraid I'm scrambling to catch up on there and haven't started this one yet...
You know it makes me smile everytime there's a comment on that thred that someone loves his writing style.

[Virginie]

Tomorrow's fine with me. It's a date! (more like, double-date with Jal' and Snorri haha)

[Virginie]

And yeah, it makes me happy too. His writing really IS amazing. I'm quite torn between the audio (T.G. Reynolds is doing an amazing job as an arrogant, witty Jal) and highlighting all those nice quotes with the ebook.

[Zaara]

So listen while you read. Always choose both, ta daaaaaaahlin'...
:-)
#greedisgood
Is what I did with Elantris...if you just listened to that one you'd have missed all the Aons (pictograms) at each chapter start.
They were like mini-narratives/adjuncts to the main in and of themselves.

[Virginie]

Btw, my favorite quote from M.L. so far (from King of Thorns, beware spoilers :p):
(view spoiler)[

There is no sound more annoying than the chatter of a child, and none more sad than the silence they leave when they are gone.

(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

That's a good one.
I'll be sure to bring some of mine the next time I'm on here.
Gnite, Virginie.

[Anni]

Guilty of sneaking into other threads as well 😂 I am very happy that our scheduled read for KoT works that well :)

If you couldn't descide between audiobook and actual book you should choose one format and do a re-read next year with the other format so I could join you 😜

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "So listen while you read. Always choose both, ta daaaaaaahlin'...
:-)
#greedisgood
Is what I did with Elantris...if you just listened to that one you'd have missed all the Aons (pictograms) at each..."

I tried doing that once (with Legend I think). The problem is that I read much faster than I listen, if that makes sense. Even with a good app for speeding the narration, I end up with chipmunk voices :'(

[Virginie]

Anni wrote: "Guilty of sneaking into other threads as well 😂 I am very happy that our scheduled read for KoT works that well :)

If you couldn't descide between audiobook and actual book you should choose one ..."

Oooh, that's a good idea! ;)

[Zaara]

Read the prologue and first two chapters.

Prologue is (view spoiler)[ but disorienting since we last saw Jalan and Snorri in Hell/Hel/the deadlands and now he rips thru a portal into the desert. Huh? Already? Wtf happened over there and where is Snorri...
It's the last place I expected the book will start.
Also :-) at the confusion of the "fanatical" Hatari (sorry i'm never gonna remember where the apostrophe goes so I just killed it) desert escort. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 1: (view spoiler)[ Jalan is...well...Jalan. Bluster and swagger and uncouth but jolly lustings.
Also ewwww at the sheep's head coming alive at the feast. It was a very visually-written scene, no? And funny, the way he's desperately trying to heap rice onto the thing and think of convincing lies at the same time. I bet more dead stuff will come alive in the desert and it will get very very Prince of Persia....
Stay away from the girls Jalan.
Sheik Malik is dangerous. Not to mention the horde of brothers. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2: (view spoiler)[ Aaaaaaand of course he won't.
Oh Jalan!
:-) when the tent collapsed and the skeletons arrive. (hide spoiler)]

Questions I'm asking:
(view spoiler)[
1. WHY does ML move the action (and the key) to the desert when it obviously belongs somewhere where Snorri and the Red and Blue factions are battling?Obviously there's something in Liba that's vital to the plot. GUESS: its at the University maybe, the Mathema or whatever its called. Or with the Caliph.
2. What's happening back home with Garyus and the Red Queen and the Silent Sister?
3. Don't forget Skilfar/Kara/Hennan. I hope Hennan gets more of a role than being eventual replacement for the family Snorri lost.
4. Snorri is all alone in the deadlands....
(hide spoiler)]

Laughed out loud when: the camel stepped on his arse. Even more so than the tent, bcuz Jal...he deserves it a bit!

Fave line so far: The very first. It was a strong opener, I think and so far there hasn't been too much of Jal's bastard wit nor his particular brand of philosophy ;-)

[Virginie]

Read the prologue, and intended to follow with chapter 1 & 2. Fell asleep mid Chapter 1 haha. I'm having a really rough week at work :'( (I'm leaving work around 8.30pm every day ><)

Prologue: (view spoiler)[I agree, it's very disorienting. I'm really wondering what happened to Snorri :o But just imagining that fanatic seeing Jal' rips through the air followed by some kind of succubus, shove her back into a portal, then yell "HOT, FUCKING HOT" et stumble down the dune... Hahahaha (hide spoiler)]

Haven't opened your spoilers for Chap' 1.
(view spoiler)[ I'm at the moment they prepare for the feast and Jalan's trying to figure out what lies he's going to tell. (hide spoiler)]

[Virginie]

So yeah. Day 1. I'm already behind lol.

[Virginie]

Ok, read up to chapter 2.

Chapter 1: (view spoiler)[ Oh nooo, that sheep's head in his plate. EWWWW! Very visual indeed. I was torn between being horrified by the fact the sheep's head he's supposed to eat (that's disgusting on its own IMO) is moving, and laughing because of Jal's reaction: bury it with rice. Love the fact he ate anyway. He was so disgusted by Norse food at the beginning of the trilogy. Now, his food is coming back to life? He's just eating the side dishes.

The A-bomb... That's the one Jorg traveled with across the desert, right? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2: (view spoiler)[I knew it! I knew the four daughters would jump him eventually. And he wouldn't resist.
Jalan's luck is as impressive as his lack of luck: try to make desert tribesman believe you're sent by their god to deliver a warning? BAM, nuclear bomb nearby. Pointing at a random spot to take away the attention from four undressed women? Skeletons emerging from the sand at that exact spot. I mean... Seriously? Hahahaha! (hide spoiler)]

Laughed like a madwomen at: Jalan's first reaction to the two brothers threatening him after the camel incident: "I DIDN'T TOUCH HER!". And he wasn't even trying to grope her. The only time he's not being all touchy with a women, he gets accused :p

Hennan: (view spoiler)[ I really hope he gets more 'screentime' as well. That moment in The Liar's Key when Jal's fighting with corpses in the prison and Hennan just picks coins off the floor because 'always take the money' :) :) :) (hide spoiler)]

[Virginie]

Putting our schedule just so it's there :p I'll edit if we fall behind.

11: Prologue + Chapter 1 + Chapter 2
12: Chapter 3 + Chapter 4
13: CATCHING UP :p
14: WEEK-END :D
15: WEEK-END :D

16: Chapter 5 + Chapter 6
17: Chapter 7 + Chapter 8
18: Chapter 9 + Chapter 10
19: Chapter 11
20: learning how to count
21: WEEK-END :D
22: WEEK-END :D

23: FREE DAY
24: FREE DAY
25: FREE DAY
26: Chapter 12 + Chapter 13
27: Chapter 14 + Chapter 15
28: WEEK-END :D
29: WEEK-END :D

30: Chapter 16 + Chapter 17
01: Chapter 18 + Chapter 19
02: Chapter 20 + Chapter 21
03: Chapter 22 + Chapter 23
04: Chapter 24 + Chapter 25
05: WEEK-END :D
06: WEEK-END :D

07: Chapter 26 + Chapter 27
08: Chapter 28 + Chapter 29
09: Chapter 30 + Chapter 31
10: Chapter 32 + Chapter 33
11: MASSIVE BOOK HANGOVER

[Virginie]

Warning for people other than Zaara: spoilers for King of Thorns / Emperor of Thorns. I'll probably include those in lots of comments so click at your own peril :p
Chapter 3: (view spoiler)[

Present time: That djinn arrival and attack was really well executed. Messages on the sand, possessed guy, a sandstorm.. *shivers* But somehow, Jalan's thoughts and actions can make even THAT comical!

‘Shit. Shit. Shit.’ I leapt toward my camel and scrambled up his side. Somehow my panic panicked the camel and the damn thing took off with me halfway into the saddle. I lay, sprawled across its hump for twenty yards, hanging on desperately, but it’s hard enough to stay on a galloping camel if you’re in the right place and sadly sometimes desperation isn’t a sufficient adhesive. My camel and I parted company, leaving me with a handful of camel hair, an ill-smelling blanket, and a seven-foot drop to the ground.

😂😂😂😂 He really can't handle those camels!

Flashbacks: SNORRI! I love how casually Snorri takes the whole deadlands thing, and say they should just walk in a random direction and see what's there :p
The 'rip' to the living world and the big battle Jal' saw there... That's the battle at the Haunt, right? The Jorg&trolls&magic VS Arrow's army. I could be wrong but I think it fits the timeline...
Which brings me to my question. Who on Earth is that soul that tried to take Jalan's body? Martell Harris? Do we know him from King of Thorns? I can't recall.

And to the most important part... We saw William & Justice! I knew he was going to show up the moment I saw 'milestone' written but still. Jalan and Snorri didn't realize that this little boy IS the Dead King they've been running from for so long. I wonder if William knows who they are, and that they have the key. He would have attacked had he known I think...
(hide spoiler)]

[Anni]

Yay, spread reading schedules everywhere!!! ♥

[Virginie]

Anni wrote: "Yay, spread reading schedules everywhere!!! ♥"

:D
It works wonderfully and allows great discussions.

[Virginie]

@Zaara: I modified the schedule a little bit so we're reading no chapters during the week-end. Since we're both reading tons of books at the same time, we can catch up that way.
What do you think? :)

[Anni]

Virginie wrote:"What do you think? :)"

I think you counted 13 twice 😂 And now I'm feeling like a creepy stalker, but I promise, I just take a look at the schedule because I think that's a great idea and maybe I will do the same thing with free weekends when I propose a schedule next time. The free weekends also give you time to catch up when you fall behind :)

[Zaara]

Great plan…and yes, just like you predicted I used the weekend to catch up…so at least on this thread I am strictly keeping to the schedule.

On King of Thorns I will need one more day to catch up with schedule and then it will get to the manageable portion of two chapters a day.

Then I can finally start Way of Kings. Problem was this month I had ten unscheduled days away during which I only read Elantris and wasn’t even in the frame of mind to read/talk to anyone.

Thanks for giving me that extra day…very thoughtful of you and I used it well. I’m glad we decided to follow this series thru to the end together. Certainly the book is going towards some very unexpected places and I think because this is a small read (in terms of number of people) you and I got to become very comfortable with each other.

Ohk…making tracks towards the massive book hangover :D

CH 3: Opened your spoiler and (view spoiler)[ oh very interesting catch about the Battle of the Haunt. Love how your mind works, you! I hadn’t considered it even though I just read about the battle (KoT) today. I guess you could be right but I’m not completely certain…and I’m saying this because of what happens in the next chapter in THIS book…I’ll mention it there.

Anyway, first thing I notice opening this chapter is that Jalan is back to cribbing about the sand, about the heat, about the people, about everything. Hehehehhe, his “I’m so grateful to be back from the deadlands and its so good to be alive again” well…that gratitude fizzled out quick. But still, there is something endearing in his cribbing too, like a small and grumpy (and very spoilt) baby. Throughout the series he’s always “I wannaaa gooooo hooooooome” and makes these elaboarate and cunning schemes and each time, fate throws him further. You’re so right….Jalan’s luck is a thing unto itself. Mebbe he has some Irish ;-P in him?

Rgarding the first scene in Hel I noted your comment about Snorri being so matter of fact about it…later it’s revealed he did prep a bit by talking to Kara on what to expect.

Oh and I DESPISE Jalan when he is scheming against the trusting and decent Snorri. I dunno why decent and trusting male chars make me so damn angry…Virginie…that and I guess bcuz of how someone would take advantage of them.

Random thoughts while reading the chapter

1. If each person has a personal Hel (and this is an old idea and not a very original one) I wonder what each of ours would look like, no?
2. Also, are you enjoying the Biblical and mythological crosstalk that occurs thru this trilogy? I am. I also like that its pill-size and never overwhelming. That and their journey through the deadlands are giving me memory twinges of American Gods…
3. I wonder if ML has ever thought about writing pure horror. We’ve seen that he can do bleak, he can do gore and he can do vicious…and he can do weird amalgams that straddle the line. I don’t read horror, but you know what (sorry stealing from idiffer) Ginny? If this guy wrote it…I’d get in line.
4. Are you liking the structure of the book? How from this chapter onwards the book starts lurching like a drunken pendulum…between the present story in Liba and the journey with Snorri in Hel (of which he has lost some portions of memory). I’m hoping the transitions get smoother. Also, issues of memory seem to be a frequent theme in ML’s books, have you noticed? Its gonna annoy me if its just a device to keep key information hidden from the reader (note my comments on KoT thread).

(hide spoiler)]

Regarding Martell Harris – I think he’s just a random soul and name who dies in pain during battle. I can’t recall him from KoT so far in the Battle of the Haunt but I will keep my eyes peeled for any mentions.

Re the milestone. Its been four years since I read the first trilogy so I had no fekkin clue. Great catch. I NEVER catch things unless I’m really really paying attention and devoting myself only to one book. For me that Easter Egg was a delicious surprise. But more of that in Chapter 4 comments.

Chapter 4

(view spoiler)[

First of all (self-congratulating like a douchebag) I knew it! I knew ML would go for the Mathema…woooooooot! I knew there’d be something there.

Ok Virginie, if you got to this chapter I need your help. The conversation between Yusuf and Jalan…with the paragraph starting “some of them did”…”the Builder spirits found themselves…” this para seems a very important clue that will become significant later on, right? But I swear I have no idea wtf it all means. About the builder spirits being ensnared by myth and the tales growing around them….

Here is my question - is this the Mathema’s interpretation of the AI found in various Builder artefacts???? or are there actually malicious Builder spirits trapped in stories???? Of which Kelem is one. Boy, is he gonna be PISSED when he comes back…still, I’m a bit confused and it will be interesting to see how it develops.

And oh the conversation between Jalan and Jorg! Did you smile at the parallels made? Did you only just then realise how similar ML’s two protagonists are? I love when authors are able to laugh at themselves and get all tongue in cheek WITHIN a book. Heck, I love when anyone is able to laugh at themselves and take as good as they can give. It shows…resilience along with spirit, no?

There was a line in Liar’s Key (remember that I pointed it out) where ML basically mentioned his “philosophical bullshit” thru Jalan but also obviously was laughing at himself.

I dunno if this is just an Easter Egg for the sake of it (and nothing wrong with that) but see…that’s why I was unsure whether the battle we saw was the Battle of the Haunt. Since the timeline now firmly places Jorg at the Mathema during the blown door incident. Still, I love how he has us piecing the clues together and always turning questions inside our heads.

(hide spoiler)]

Oh and in case my hints were too cunning and subtle earlier…I LOVE MARK LAWRENCE so I’m sorry for the huge post, sweetheart. In case you weren’t warned by the Prince of Thorns thread and yesterdays’ huge post on KoT….my ML essays are always substantially longer than anything else. There’s this weird alchemy I have with these books + my (yucky and slobbering?) eagerness for his writing always overrides my restraint. I’m so happy to have found another enthusiast to DISSECT these books with. We are so fekkin lucky!

And :-D

[Zaara]

Anni wrote: "...couldn't descide between audiobook and actual book you should choose one format and do a re-read next year with the other format so I could join you 😜 "

This is actually a cool plan. I've never listened to these books (how's the narrator by the way?) so it will be fun to revisit your discussion when all the details are fresh in my head...

[Virginie]

Will come back and answer you Zaara sweety later this afternoon.
For now, I just wanted to say I modified the schedule again to put Chapter 5 and 6 to tomorrow (instead of Friday) since I haven't read them and I don't think you did either.

I'd rather take my time and comment like crazy than rush through this book. I love reading your big-ass essays and writing my owns :D :D :D

[Zaara]

:-) aaaah finally a ML reading partner who is made in the shape of my own heart...
You do that,guuuurl, you do that!
And hey,,we're all right now on this thred....

https://www.goodreads.com/user_status...

Come when you can....

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "Certainly the book is going towards some very unexpected places and I think because this is a small read (in terms of number of people) you and I got to become very comfortable with each other."

You're right! Every time I think I know where ML is headed, there's a change of direction and I end up really surprised.
I really love this BRs with you :D The fact that it's just the two of us now (and the occasional lurker, hey Anni :p) allows a real discussion. And fangirling. ;)

Those extra days were not purely selfless though. I'm swamped in books and behind in all my buddy reads hahaha. I managed to catch up a little bit this week-end so I'm happy :)

[Virginie]

Chapter 3: (view spoiler)[

Martell Harris: I googled it 'cause I was dying of curiosity. I found this:
http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.fr/20...
So turns out our friend Martell wasn't in KoT 'cause he didn't make the cut :p I like how ML inserted him in Osheim and told us about this random guy that fell because of Jorg's plans (and ruthlessness). Telling that through Jalan's point of view made it even more impactfull IMO. (What, is impactfull a word? ><)
Jalan's always saying he hates fighting. I don't think that's just the coward in him talking. That's a nice contrast with Jorg who's always looking for a fight just to prove he can win, and who's also willing to sacrifice anyone for his goals.

Jalan's temper tantrums: cause yes, that's how I see Jalan's constant whining. I didn't even notice he reverted back to it until you pointed it out. I guess I'm so used to it now...
His complaining is somewhat endearing. I imagine Snorri looking at him like you would a small child... Especially when Jal is trying to bullshit him and you just know Snorri is not falling for it but pretends to just to indulge his friend.

Curiously, the more Snorri knows Jal and the more he falls for his tricks. I don't understand why Jalan's hiding the fact he still has the key... I don't think he knows it either. Just took it on pure instinct. You have to admit though... The liar's key belongs to Jalan and no one else.

(hide spoiler)]

[Anni]

Hey there! :) I thought about staying silent and act like I'm not lurking again... But yeah, I think it's too late to hide my crazy side :D

To my defense, I also use this as a shortcut to the Lawrence folder and the KoT Read when this one is among the newest posts. (view spoiler)[ And I'm too curious for my own good :) (hide spoiler)]

[Virginie]

Still Chapter 3 about your 'random thoughts' (view spoiler)[

1. I actually don't like to wonder about my own personal hell. I'm not a believer but the idea of a place tailored to your deepest fears and regrets really creeps me out. Part of this is because I have quite a low self-esteem and that I believe deep down that many events that happened around me are my fault. I'm a very rational person and my brain disagrees with that but I can't shake that feeling... Wow, I went dark fast :p
Did you ever watch an episode of the TV-show Lucifer? 'Hell' in that show is your very own imagination and guilt. It's an endless loop where you relive your worst mistakes, moments, regrets... The idea being that nothing is keeping you there but your own guilt and fears. You're not locked in, the door is open but you don't even see it 'cause you're too busy wallowing in your misery.... Horrible, don't you think?

2. I love how we're noticing very different aspects of this book. I didn't even give a second thought on the Biblical/mythological talk. Part of this is because, like I said, I'm an atheist. Another reason could be that, growing up in France, I was bathed in catholic culture. Then I spent two whole years in Sweden where I learned lots about nordic mythology. So I just accepted those themes in ML's books like it was normal :o

3. Ok, first... Yeah, you can call me Ginny :D :D
Second... I'd jump on a horror book by ML like my life depends on it. AND I'm really weak when it comes to horror stuff. But ML is doing it so well... He has me laughing while reading about zombies, hellhounds, spidery shadowy Aslaug and undead food.

4. The transitions were really abrupt, I threw me off a bit. It was done better in Liar's Key (with Jal's vision of the Red Queen)...
Memory is really a important theme in ML books. How events shape us and our view of the world. It's a theme that's also important to me. I think I mentioned it once or twice in this group already but I had a really rough time about a year and a half ago. I was really, really down up to the point I rewrote some of my memories. I thought I was going crazy for a little while. (Hum, please note that I'm not crazy... Also not suicidal, and never have been. I'm just too introspective for my own good). That's why I'm so fascinated by Jalan. I resemble him in his sarcasm, his tendencies to pretend problems will go away on their own and ability to lie to himself.

(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Stick arnd Anni....

[Virginie]

Already read Chapter 4 but I need to order my thoughts about it, especially about that conversation you mentioned, perhaps even re-read that bit.
Will post about it this evening of tomorrow, promise :)

[Zaara]

@Virginie...it SOOOO does belong to him and nobody else.
:-D
I'm wondering whether we will find EXTREMELY WEIRD PREDICTION (view spoiler)[ he was touched/blessed or possessed by Loki or somehow a pawn of Loki all the time. Lying comes too easy to him.
(hide spoiler)]
Thanks for the link. Will chk it out.

[Virginie]

Anni wrote: "Hey there! :) I thought about staying silent and act like I'm not lurking again... But yeah, I think it's too late to hide my crazy side :D

To my defense, I also use this as a shortcut to the Lawr..."

Hey, I'm reading the King of Thorns thread. Every single dawn spoiler. You'll get no judging from me ;)

[Zaara]

So I read the Cutting Room link...which actually makes you right and it was the Battle of the Haunt.
Which now psychs the heck outta me about how much time Jalan must've spent battling the djinn for Chapter 4 to occur (view spoiler)[with Jorg at the Mathema. I think I will have to read on in KoT to see if there is any specific mention of how many months pass between the battle and his visit.
I went bk and checked the releavnt chapter in Osheim tho'. There is a mention in the conversation with Yusuf that months have passed...but I took it to mean months passed since the INITIAL fire in the theatre...
???
Let me hold on to this for a bit. But on the first part, you got me hon.
(hide spoiler)]
By the way....look at us, Virginie...totally geeking out on timelines and edit cuts....woooooot!
Ok now i really gtg. I always forget the time when i login here and start commenting

[Virginie]

Mmmh. The way I see it, Jal passed out during his battle with the djinn and got sucked in a flashback. The 'half a year' he mentions later is probably the time he spent in the deadlands.

(Carefull Anni, spoilers KoT. Don't open :p)
(view spoiler)[
So:
- Jal & Snorri enter the Deadlands. Jal collides with the soul of Martell Hariss and witnesses bits of the battle of the Haunt. At the same time, Jorg is obviously fighting for dear life and having his men massacred.
- Roughly 6 months later, Jal leaves the deadlands on his own. He reasons that a catastrophe is about to happen here since he was able to cross to the living world. Later, he witnesses a nuclear explosion. That is the bomb Jorg buried in the sand, the one that clockwork banker (Marco?) was transporting in his big box (which Jorg filled with sand). At that exact time, Jorg has his audience with the calif and fights Marco.
- Jal arrives in Hamada. He sees Marco's corpse (well, he's not really 'dead') at the gate. The door to the Mathema has just been destroyed by Jorg. Goes drinking and meet Jorg for the second time.
- The next morning, Omar asks him what he thinks of Jorg (since our evil cupcake has just struck an alliance with his father).

Am I missing something?
(hide spoiler)]

I'm such a nerd :p

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "Ok I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. So yea. Don't worry...the next time I log in if this post doesn't pass my stringent editorial and quality stambards I will delete it."

Too late! Already read it! 😈

I'm too tired to properly answer AND post my thoughts about Chapter 4. Will do that tomorrow.

I read the entire Broken Empire trilogy in September/October 2017. So roughly 6 months ago...
I actually HAD TO construct that timeline in my head 'cause it was driving me crazy. I'm one of those persons that has to fit everything in neat little boxes in their head ^_^

[Virginie]

Chapter 4: Jorg & Jalan (view spoiler)[

I really love how ML showed the similarities between his two protagonists. You’re right, I didn’t notice all those parallels until pointed out.

‘That sibling I mentioned, killed when I saw my mother killed…’
He looked up at me, again just the one eye glittering above his burn scar, the other hidden. ‘Yes?’
Well she’s not properly dead. She’s in Hell plotting her return and planning revenge.’
‘On who?’
‘Me, you.’ I shrugged. ‘The living. Mostly me I think.’
‘Ah.’ He leaned back into the cushions. ‘Well there you’ve got me beat.’
‘Good.’ I drank again. ‘I was starting to think we were the same person.’

Oh the irony… Jorg’s brother is not just a powerful Unborn. He’s the fecking Dead King! ML shows us that his protagonists, with similar stories, are completely opposed.
I like how you can really see the differences between their personalities in this conversation. Jorg is dark, intense and confident. Jalan is all bluster and need to show off.

I just realized… Jorg helped Jalan with his problem (although Jal was too drunk to remember the solution Jorg gave) but… Jalan could have solved Jorg’s problems as well! He had ALL the clues but didn’t notice it. When Jorg says his brother was killed and shows his scars, Jalan could have said: “Oh by the way, I saw a little boy in Hel. He was looking for his brother in a hook-briar bush. I also saw him by a bloody milestone in company of a huge dog on fire named Justice. Ring any bell? Oh, it really is your brother? You want to talk to him? No, no, no… You don’t have to die to do that. Let’s go find a place of death and I’ll open the door for you. Got any nuclear weapon nearby?”

While I'm talking about William... Jal's flackback, where he sees William searching for his brother in the thorns.... That just broke my heart. Both his and Jorg's actions are only dictated by their love for each other and their anger. They just got twisted by the 'unseen players' so that they opposed each other...

(hide spoiler)]

[Virginie]

Big-ass post about the conversation with Yusuf coming...

[Zaara]

Virginie wrote: "Big-ass post about the conversation with Yusuf coming..."

I'm waiting....and believe me I will enjoy every word....
I just posted a motha on King of Thorns...
I'd been ignoring that thred bébé for way too long....😂

[Virginie]

Zaara wrote: "Virginie wrote: "Big-ass post about the conversation with Yusuf coming..."

I'm waiting....and believe me I will enjoy every word....
I just posted a motha on King of Thorns...
I'd been ignoring th..."

:)
I'm at work and writing bits and pieces of it during my breaks. It's quite fun :D

[Virginie]

I took a long time thinking about it and writing it in a way that makes sense. If I’m saying obvious things that you already know, please don’t think I’m being condescendant or patronizing. I really need to write this ‘explanation’ from the start so I don’t get confused. Also, it’s only my interpretation of Broken Empire and Red Queen’s War. I could be dead wrong :) I just like making theories and connections haha. Ok, here goes.

The setting of the book: (view spoiler)[

All the books are situated in a distant future where civilization went back to medieval times. The Builders (us in a few centuries I would say) destroyed the world in a huge nuclear BOOM leaving only a few advanced technologies no one knows how to use. At the same time, the Builders ‘sent the Wheel spinning’ and somehow fissured the fabric of our world. You mentioned a great quote for that in KoT thread about the ‘boundaries thinning’.
The way I see it, advanced technologies cracked the boundaries between this world, the physical world, and some metaphysical world. Whether this was caused by the nuclear apocalypse or the ‘Wheel’ (I’ll post my ideas about that later), magic started pouring into the physical world. There’s mentions of quantum physics and nuclear physics in the books. From what I remember from my studies, the core of that is that the observer has an influence on an event. (I don’t know if you’re familiar with Schrödinger's cat but that’s the simplest explanation I can think of).
In my opinion, there’s a world out there, (let’s call it the Metaphysical World) where every possibility is a fact. If you can imagine it, then it exists in the Metaphysical World. The more you believe in something, the stronger that idea manifests there. So when rips to the Metaphysical World appeared, magic became possible. Fire-sworn, rock-sworn, necromancy (death-sworn), etc.
To use magic, you’re actually reaching into the Metaphysical World, therefore widening the cracks. And that makes magic easier and easier to use. That’s the Lady Blue’s goal: widening the cracks so much the Metaphysical World swallows the physical one. I think that’s why she’s encouraging and driving the Dead King. Since the Deadlands are a part of the Metaphysical world, every zombie he creates just makes a bigger crack in the boundary. Should he come back to life, a big-ass hole would open.

When those cracks first appeared, the Builders were facing total annihilation through A-bombs/radiation. And because they’re humans, they tried to cheat death. That’s where Yusuf’s talk comes in:

‘The Builders went into the spirit world…’
‘Some of them did,’ Yusuf said. ‘A small number. They used the changes they wrought in the world when they turned the Wheel. They escaped into other forms when their flesh betrayed them. Others were copied into the Builders’ machines and exist there now as echoes of men and women long since dead.

[To be continued…]
(Seriously, I have to work)

(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Listening...don't want to interrupt...go on...won't post again until you specify that you're done.
Familiar with the cat so feel free to take it as far as you wish in any or all of those directions...
Xtremely happy to let you take point on this...