Lord of Shadows (The Dark Artifices, #2) Lord of Shadows question

(This discussion is closed. Thanks for sharing your opinions!)
deleted member (last edited Apr 18, 2018 06:13PM ) Oct 08, 2017 09:27PM
(WARNING: this discussion may contain spoilers + controversial opinions.)

I'm currently reading Lord of Shadows by Cassandra Clare. It's really great so far, but as I've been reading, I've had a few questions come to mind and I'm wondering if anyone else has had the same ones.

This is going to sound controversial, but given how unaccepting the Shadowhunting world seems to be of LGBT+ people, doesn't it seem a little odd that there's five (Helen, Mark, Aline, Diana, Alec and in the future Ty and Kit as had been confirmed by Cassie) currently?

Also, how many LGBT+ characters do you think is too much in one book? Is it really realistic to have eight people from the community in a single book (including Kieran) regardless of the world?

Has anyone else thought the same thing, or is it just me? How much diversity in books do you think is *too much*, and at which point to you think it detracts from the story/becomes overbearing?

Note: Since all fearies are bisexual, I excluded any who were not in a relationship, and Mark Blackthorn is only included since he was at one point in a relationship with Kieran. It seemed unfair to Clare to include them unless their sexuality was expressed, as it would be inflating the number of LGBTQ people I have already listed above.

Note on the note: A portion of the note was edited out due to the fact that it caused some confusion, and truth be told was kind of unnecessary in the first place.

Lord of Shadows

heads up - this person believes that lgbt people don't exist. there HAS to be a limit I mean it's too much to have more than 1 lgbt side character with no development right? straight people rule the world and there are no lgbt lol who needs representation!!11!!


you know what's distracting from a plot? straight people who think they're siblings shoving their tongues down each others throats. (no offence cassie i'm just using a sarcastic example here).

fuck you. if you think people being who they are """distracts""""" from the plot, go and read something so white and het it blinds you, like tog or whatever.

Speaking as someone who is part of the LGBT+ community, I love that there are so many LGBT+ characters in the Shadowhunter Chronicles. When it comes to diversity, I really don't care about realism, I care about if someone's interesting or not, and absolutely all of them are.

I'm loving this trend towards increasing numbers of LGBT+ characters in books, especially now that mainstream books are starting to have non-straight main characters (obviously not the case in TDA, but it will be in The Wicked Powers).

As someone who nigh-exclusively writes about LGBT+ characters, I'm perfectly happy with the amount of LGBT+ characters in these books because it means I don't need to change my work to get published.

It's also worth noting that although to straight/cis people, this number of LGBT+ characters seems unrealistic, often in real life, for some bizarre reason, groups of LGBT+ friends do form. Only one of my closest friends is straight and we all knew each other before we'd worked any of that stuff out.

I loved having so many diverse characters from the LGBTQ+ community. I think this had to do with how Clare wove them into the story. She didn't just pop these characters and sexuality out of nowhere. She set the stage and built them up so that when they "came out the closet to the reader" it was a surprise but also a sense of relief to finally understand that character. That's how I felt with Diana and how I'm feeling with Kit.

Yes, I am also overwhelmed by all the LGBTQ+ characters in Cassie's books. I am not saying that I do not like these characters or them being LGBTQ+, but it seems a bit too much.

I get that maybe having that many LGBTQ+ characters in a book can seem a little bit unrealistic. But I think Casandra Clare tells the story of the outcasts, of the people who are ignored by vast public, who have to strive and work hard to make even a dent of change. Unfortunately(or quite fortunately....for us, as readers anyway) people who identify as any other sexuality other than straight or any other gender other than the ones they were assigned at birth, are by default treated as or categorized as outcasts. And outcasts tend to stick together. And that may be why there are so many of such characters in Cassie's books.

The story isnt about outcasts though. Its about the warriors that keep the balance between good and evil, that protect mankind from the weight of that knowledge. I loved TID and TMI series so much. This last trilogy just was too much for me. I finally just read the ending of QAD and was done with it. There was no balance in the characters. I dont search out gay literature because i cant identify with the characters. I loved Jace/Clary and Jem/Tessa storylines. Im a traditionalist in my reading.

I think it shouldve stopped at mark and kieran and diana with the lgbt characters my god now making ty and kit gay main characters is just feeling like shes shoving it in my face to accept these characters and its frustrating for me because i dont read about lbgt as a norm but i fell in love with jace and clary and wouldve at least liked to see the series end with them and not YET another lgbt character jeeze.

U 25x33
Shriya "i dont read about lgbt as a norm" lgbt characters are normal. having them in books is normal. Books with a distinct lack of LGBT characters are unrea ...more
Aug 06, 2019 09:37PM · flag

(disclaimer as this discussion is getting heated: if you enjoyed the book, good for you; we can all have opinions)

Personally it's the sheer amount of romance in general that bothers me. Cassandra Clare seems to have gone from creating engaging, well-thought-out romantic subplots (Alec and Magnus for example) to just shipping characters whenever she can with whoever happens to be in the way. It's a shame because it honestly feels like she's writing fanfiction of her own books. I get that it is a fantasy romance franchise, but considering the number of pretty much pointless background characters Clare has running around, do they all /have/ to be in relationships?

Sweetie, do you think existence of several LGBT+ characters gets unrealistic for you after a point because you do not know a lot of LGBT+ people in real life? Do you either have no friends or social life or are you just casually homophobic enough that people just don't want to come out to you. Do you think its maybe because you think existence of several LGBT+ characters becomes unrealistic after a point???????

Also, uff uff, I'm openly bisexual and most of my closest friends are LGBT+. Its not unrealistic at all. Straight people often assume everyone around them is straight unless they come out as LGBT+, which is why they do not know a lot of LGBT people and end up thinking that 5/13 LGBT+ characters with major roles is a bit too many.

I actually don't have a problem with it at all. I think Cassie is picking up on the fact that as our society becomes more accepting of LGBTQ persons, she should be ensuring that they are well represented in her books.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I honestly don't think there can ever have enough diversity in books. As an interesting point, although there are many diverse characters in this series, the *main* characters (aka Emma and Julian) are white....so we're still in the habit of having white protagonists, while the LGBTQ characters are really secondary characters at this point.

I do agree with Lauren's comment from above. I don't think it's an issue of too many LGBTQ characters, but there are just WAY to many characters in this series. I don't feel like I'm really connecting with any of them because we barely get the chance to know any of them.

I can't believe we're in the second book and I feel like I don't even know most of the Blackthorns, let along the slew of new characters (heroes and villains) that we're now meeting!

PoppyRedbones wrote: "(WARNING: this discussion may contain spoilers + controversial opinions.)

I'm currently reading Lord of Shadows by Cassandra Clare. It's really great so far, but as I've been reading, I've had a f..."

I once read a statistic years ago that one in every 4 people are not heterosexual. I honestly think the numbers are higher, but I I think it's a pretty good rule of thumb when creating a fictional world.

i dont mind the lgbt pairings in this series. i ship kit and ty, mark and keiran, helen and aline and of course magnus and alec.

I think it really shouldn't matter if every one of the characters is lgbt, it doesn't change the over all aspect of the character, I mean there still the same person.

In the original series, TMI, I didn't mind the pairing so much. Alec and Magnus were a nice addition. Their personal story made up a small part of the overall series but their characters were very important to the ending of the series overall. In this current series, I feel that Clare has reduced Alec's role in the Shadowhunter Universe to that of a nursemaid. He is no longer the badass shadowhunter as he is always staying behind to take care of his and Magnus' adopted kids. I'm not a member of the LGBTQ community so I don't identify with these characters at all. I'm not offended by them as they are part of Clare's story, but there is just so many of them that it is beginning to come off as dysfunctional to me.

U 25x33
Shriya OK. So 6/10 close friends are LGBT+ and i live in India, which is still quite regressive about such stuff. What I'm trying to say is that LGBT+ only c ...more
Aug 06, 2019 09:32PM · flag

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