Outlander Series discussion

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Outlander on Starz S3 > E5 - "Freedom & Whisky"

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message 1: by Liza (last edited Oct 07, 2017 08:13PM) (new)

Liza (lizaburgos) I took the liberty and opened a discussion for episode 5. :)


message 2: by Liza (last edited Oct 07, 2017 10:34PM) (new)

Liza (lizaburgos) Ending: Emotional yet funny....

They did change quite a few things: How Claire got her 18th cent dress or how Jamie and Claire meet..... I was prepared to cry like i did when i read the book BUT I didn't ( i lied, i did cry but nothing like the book). I think it should give you a glimpse of what's ahead - ADVENTURES!


message 3: by April (new)

April (scotiaphile) | 9 comments They didn't chare how Jamie & Claire met....what are you talking about?


message 4: by April (new)

April (scotiaphile) | 9 comments I absolutely hated the addition of scenes with the adaptation's fabricated character of "Sandy," Frank's mistress. Totally unnecessary to the plot line.

The print shop scene was well done and they ended it just in the right place... great faint by Sam Heughan!

I really loved how they did the time travel scene while Claire's narration gave us the starting passage in Voyager about Claire's fear of falling through puddles into a different dimension. We didn't need to see another trip through the stones...and this pushed the story forward at a quicker pace...it worked well in my eyes.

I still cringe every time I see Glasgow portrayed as Boston. Though I love Glasgow and think it is a beautiful city...it doesn't look at all like Boston...and Glasgow University doesn't look a thing like Harvard University. It's a shame they couldn't have actually shot the scenes here in Boston. I'm very proud of my city.


message 5: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments The reuniting of Claire and Jamie at the print shop is maybe my favorite scene in the book series. I just didn't feel it here in the show. It was fine but didn't grab my heart like the book did. I did love the time shift and the narration of the puddle though.

I actually didn't mind the part with Sandy in this episode ( I don't like the whole change from Frank's many affairs to a single long term one though) I think her line about waiting 20 years in love with Frank and now would give anything for just one more day is a catalyst to Claire making the decision to leave Bree and go to Jamie. "He was the love of my life and now I would give anything for just one more day with him" and now Claire is willing to give up Bree for the chance of one more day with Jamie after waiting 20 years. I think it suites the story. I cannot wait (as usual) for the next episode!


message 6: by Cindy (new)

Cindy (bkind2books) | 8 comments That wasn’t the moon landing. It was Jim Lovell reading from the Book of Genesis and it DID happen Christmas 1968.


message 7: by Cindy (new)

Cindy (bkind2books) | 8 comments Trivia bit - Jim Lovell was the only man to travel to the moon twice but never walked upon it. He went on Apollo 8 and the fateful Apollo 13 (of “Houston, we have a problem “ fame)


message 8: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 59 comments I was disappointed in this episode...... ONLY because I was waiting for the print shop the entire time!!!!!

I was surprised to see her making her own dress. It worked though since she got to make her own special pockets and "utility belt"! Weird to have the Batman song though. I understand why, but..Just weird.

Bree <3 Roger! Will Roger stay in Boston a while? In the books don't they end in Scotland and then Bree flies home? If someone can remind me that would be awesome. I can't remember the details. I am wondering how often we will check in with them now that Claire is in a different time.

The bones: (Another clarification I need from recent book readers) (view spoiler)


message 9: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Caroline wrote:








(view spoiler)


message 10: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Maureen wrote: "I was disappointed in this episode...... ONLY because I was waiting for the print shop the entire time!!!!!

I was surprised to see her making her own dress. It worked though since she got to make ..."


Yes Claire can sense things by touch. It is part of the reason she is such a great healer and it is one of the gifts she has. If you are disappointed in the Print Shop you have not see the entire print shop scene yet...it will be 22 Oct when A. Malcolm is the Episode we were left with a tantalizing cliffhanger.


message 11: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Diane wrote: "Caroline wrote:



This scene was one of the closing scene of Season 2 Episode 13. You may want to rewatch it and in the book it occurs in Dragonfly in Amber not Voyager.




[spoilers removed]"



message 12: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Maureen wrote: "I was disappointed in this episode...... ONLY because I was waiting for the print shop the entire time!!!!!

I was surprised to see her making her own dress. It worked though since she got to make ..."


Since they changed the fact the Bree stayed with Roger in Scotland and continued to search while her mom returned toBoston to decide on what to do and tie up loose end...they changed how and when Claire travels. So instead of buying a Gunny Sack dress (and yes this was a real company that made old fashion floor length dresses as worn in the 18th and 19th. Centuries) in Scotland Claire designed and made the dress with all the secret pockets she would need. Roger and Bree give her Christmas presents for the other items she would need like 18thcentury Scottish coins..and the semi precious stone needed for safe travel. changed her date of travel from 1 Nov SamhAin to a date close to Winter solistce....which would be 21 December... when Claire returned to 20th century she came through on a date close to Beltane1 May....Claire went through on 16 April Which was 2 weeks prior to Beltane.


message 13: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments I personally don't feel the changes they made disrupt the plot line and they provide the important details to the story like the medicune, money and costuming. I liked how she stepped into the taxi - narrated memories from her childhood and then stepped out of the carriage into the puddle. That was a wonderful juxtoposition.


message 14: by Ann (new)

Ann | 19 comments I just read the book this summer and if the book said anything about (view spoiler)
I have only read the first 3 books so maybe this is something that is clarified in later books? Don’t answer that! I don’t want to know!


message 15: by MissSusie (new)

MissSusie | 146 comments Ann wrote: "I just read the book this summer and if the book said anything about [spoilers removed]
I have only read the first 3 books so maybe this is something that is clarified in later books? Don’t answer ..."


You will understand that bones scene by the end of this season.


message 16: by Maureen (new)

Maureen | 59 comments Mary wrote: "Maureen wrote: "I was disappointed in this episode...... ONLY because I was waiting for the print shop the entire time!!!!!

I was surprised to see her making her own dress. It worked though since ..."


I was being a bit sarcastic Mary :) I was anticipating the Print Shop to be the bulk of episode 5 but I ::sigh:: have to wait for episode 6. Haha I'm just being impatient! I saw the previews though and I don't think I'll be disappointed in 2 weeks!

And thanks for the clarification about Claire sensing things through her touch. That does make that scene make a bit more sense. She seemed almost uncomfortable and I couldn't recall that happening in the books as clearly as it happened on screen.

Excited for an "extended" episode next! A little extra Claire & Jaime never hurt anyone!


message 17: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Ann wrote: "I just read the book this summer and if the book said anything about [spoilers removed]
I have only read the first 3 books so maybe this is something that is clarified in later books? Don’t answer ..."


This is percisely why everybody needs to be careful with spoilers. (view spoiler)


message 18: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments The reason why they change the dates for the tv show is because of the seasons. It's really hard to make Scotland in winter look like Scotland in the summer.


message 19: by Liza (last edited Oct 10, 2017 09:41PM) (new)

Liza (lizaburgos) April wrote: "They didn't chare how Jamie & Claire met....what are you talking about?"

don't be rude. if you disagree, try to be nice and explain why you disagree with others or my post and we can have a decent conversation where we can all learn from each other's points of view.


message 20: by Liza (new)

Liza (lizaburgos) Maureen wrote: "I was disappointed in this episode...... ONLY because I was waiting for the print shop the entire time!!!!!

I was surprised to see her making her own dress. It worked though since she got to make ..."


I agree with your comment about Claire making her dress and i also wanted to see her trip to Edinburgh from Inverness..... or her first reaction returning to the past....


message 21: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Liza wrote: "April wrote: "They didn't chare how Jamie & Claire met....what are you talking about?"

don't be rude. if you disagree, try to be nice and explain why you disagree with others or my post and we can..."


I didn't read that as rude... She said that they didn't change how Jamie and Claire met then asked what you were talking about. I take it as asking for specifics because she didn't understand why you said that.

In contrast, your response to April did come off as rude. I agree that we should all strive for an open conversation even when we disagree. Maybe responding to April with specific details to support your point of view, that they changed the way Jamie and Claire met, would have started that decent conversation that we all can learn from.


message 22: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cherirnhealer) | 157 comments I was disappointed with how this episode was written except for the meeting of Claire and Jamie and his faint. While I understand the producers ended the show with Claire stepping from the taxi into Edinburgh for convenience sake, I did feel bad that they didn't bring her through the stones. Roger did come to Boston in the book, but they all went back to Invernness. All the time devoted to honoring Frank, his mistress and Brianna failing Harvard could have been skipped. I had expected the episode quickly winding up Claire's business in Boston and the rest in Scotland. We will all be rewarded with an extended reunion with our Claire and Jamie though.


message 23: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Cheri wrote: "I was disappointed with how this episode was written except for the meeting of Claire and Jamie and his faint. While I understand the producers ended the show with Claire stepping from the taxi int..."
In the book Roger stays in Inverness with Bree...they continue searching Claire has to go back because she needed to answer for something that she was suspected of doing. While there she had decisions to make...She returns in September she gets a telegram from Roger stating they found Jamie...Claire sets up deed and banks in Brees name...she closes down the house, she resigns from the hospital and goes to Scotland she travels through the stones on Samhain (1 November 1968 and ends up 1 November 1766)...Roger goes to Boston when Claire is back in the 18th century for a Summer seminar and he has to sing in order to pay his room and board while there. That is the first time Roger goes to Boston.


message 24: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments Mary wrote: "Cheri wrote: "I was disappointed with how this episode was written except for the meeting of Claire and Jamie and his faint. While I understand the producers ended the show with Claire stepping fro..."
I really hope that the writers keep the part of Drums where Roger visits Bree during what will be the following summer.


message 25: by Liza (last edited Oct 14, 2017 07:28PM) (new)

Liza (lizaburgos) Diane wrote: "Liza wrote: "April wrote: "They didn't chare how Jamie & Claire met....what are you talking about?"

don't be rude. if you disagree, try to be nice and explain why you disagree with others or my po..."



There are other ways to say what she said in a nice and cordial tone so we can all have a nice discussion. remember the internet is quite impersonal, therefore, we shall try to direct a message in a correct tone for others not to misinterpret . "I disagree with you ,please explain why you think Jamie and Claire....etc etc"


message 26: by Diane (last edited Oct 15, 2017 09:38AM) (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Liza wrote: "Diane wrote: "Liza wrote: "April wrote: "They didn't chare how Jamie & Claire met....what are you talking about?"

don't be rude. if you disagree, try to be nice and explain why you disagree with o..."


That is great advice Liza - maybe you should consider it when sending a response to people.


message 27: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader | 169 comments I feel like they made Brianna, seems a little off. I think she appeared to have it more together in the books. I guess we will see how all that plays out going forward. It seems like they made her more angsty, with the school issues etc., I mean she still comes across as a strong person but seemed less Independent In the shows portrayal. After all isn't it that love of history, which will get her checking on her Mom later. Perhaps I have this feeling because I've read beyond it. Also not having an episode to watch has me rehashing it more critically.


message 28: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments I think Brianna's character did evolve in the book quite a lot. I remember thinking that she was a spoiled, entitled, immature, brat in the beginning and then growing to love her character as the series wen on. I am not sure when that change started to occur though because the books have become one huge story for me and since I read most of them back to back I don't remember where one left off and the other begins.


message 29: by Silverblades (last edited Oct 16, 2017 09:32AM) (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments I like Sophie as Brianna just fine, but that is mostly due to my general acceptance of the fact that no matter what, the way the show looks and sounds is never going to match up to the movie that played in my head as I was reading the books. It does generally take me about one whole episode to get used to a change after which point I have simply added the change to my mental image of the show, which remains separate from the one I have of the books. I know I've gotten used to the casting of a character when I can picture him or her in future scenes from the book.

It helps to know that the entire team of writers and producers have read the books, love them and will fight for the scenes and character aspects that they most love from them. I've also found that it helps to listen to the freely accessible podcasts done by the producers in which they talk about production and the process that led them from book to screen. You play the episode and the podcast at the same time and they line up. Each podcast goes up a couple of days after the corresponding episode airs.



message 30: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments I don't mind Brianna in the show at all. I know that the tv series is never going to match up to the movie that played in my head as I was reading the books, but it also usually takes me only until about the end of the episode to add the casting choice of a new character or the layout of a new location to my mental image of the show (which remains separate from what I "see" when I read the books.) I know I've truly accepted a casting choice when I can picture the actor in a future scene from the books. There have been a couple of differences from show to books this season that were hard to wrap my head around. The actor who plays John Grey really took some getting used to, though it helped that almost every line he has had was taken straight off the page. Another thing that threw me for a loop was the layout of the printshop, which was incredibly different from my mental image of it.


message 31: by Teresa (last edited Oct 16, 2017 11:36AM) (new)

Teresa Mader | 169 comments Silverblades wrote: "I don't mind Brianna in the show at all. I know that the tv series is never going to match up to the movie that played in my head as I was reading the books, but it also usually takes me only until..."

I think the actress was well picked and is portraying the character well. I just think they have interpreted her to be less strong in the shows scripted version, less bold and independent. They are doing stuff several books behind where I am currently reading though, and that probably colors my judgement of it. I love the John Grey character, he does appear more studley than what I pictured.. I agree with you on the print shop. I pictured it as two levels but more of a standalone building, and I pictured her standing much more closely to him when they saw each other for the first time. Cannot wait until next weekend.


message 32: by Gidget (new)

Gidget | 8 comments Ann wrote: "I just read the book this summer and if the book said anything about ...

I missed it, too. I think lots of readers did. I only know what everyone is talking about because I've read online boards like this one and read others mentioning it. I've read all 8 books, and didn't notice anything on my own. I'm currently rereading Voyager, so I'll be sure to pay closer attention this time. I suspect the show will make it much more clear.



message 33: by Carol (new)

Carol | 193 comments Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that then segued into Claire stepping into the puddle in Edinburgh. I thought it was a very clever use of one of my favorite prologues of any of the books (except Outlander, of course!). I do wonder if we will ever hear Roger sing, however. That was such a big part of his character in the books.


message 34: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that then segued into Claire stepping into the puddle in ..."

We have, a little bit, in the season 2 finale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYDK2...


message 35: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Gidget wrote: "Ann wrote: "I just read the book this summer and if the book said anything about ...

I missed it, too. I think lots of readers did. I only know what everyone is talking about because I've read onl..."

I don't think it was specifically said, I think it was implied because (view spoiler)


message 36: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that then segued into Claire stepping into the puddle in ..."
i've wondered that about Roger also especially since there was a scene wher he sings in the show and his voice was just average at best.


message 37: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments Diane wrote: "Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that then segued into Claire stepping into ..."
I don't know about average so much as downplayed. Remember how back when we read the books, both we and Brianna were surprised at his singing abilities in Drums. Besides, Sam is a relatively good singer, and will have to pretend to be completely tone deaf if ever we hear Jamie sing.


message 38: by Ann (new)

Ann | 19 comments Silverblades, thanks so much for mentioning the podcast! I’m listening to it for the first episode of this season and not even watching the show at the same time but remembering it well enough to know what he’s talking about. It’s fun to get that inside info!


message 39: by Lori (last edited Oct 18, 2017 06:03AM) (new)

Lori Siska | 15 comments Silverblades wrote: "Diane wrote: "Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that then segued into Claire ..."
Do you mind adding a link for that podcast please? And on that note, I happened to watch the director talking about the puddle and how it tied in things at the end of the episode. Is it just me, but have I been missing others that I just erased after the episode was over?


message 40: by Silverblades (new)

Silverblades | 265 comments Lori wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "Diane wrote: "Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voyager that the..."
I meant to, I was having trouble with my computer that night. (Hence the two similar posts.) They are best listened to if you turn the volume very low on the corresponding episode and watch it while you listen.
https://www.starz.com/series/outlande...


message 41: by Lori (new)

Lori Siska | 15 comments Thanks a mint!


message 42: by Ann (new)

Ann | 19 comments Lori, if you’re watching on the Starz app, there is always a short segment with the director and a couple of others (producers or writers??) at the end of the show. You have to keep watching through the credits.


message 43: by Parker (new)

Parker | 105 comments Diane, singing around the house and singing for an audience are two totally different things (I speak from experience, as I'm a folksinger & do Roger's entire repertoire ;-) ). When you sing for an audience, you've had time to warm up your voice, so it's more open. Also, there's a special sort of something that happens with an audience (at least a good one!) and you sort of get lost in the experience. It's hard to describe, but I know it when it's happening. They just lift you up to something glorious.


message 44: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1356 comments Yeah I can understand that. For me, I imagined his voice being something that just transported people to what he was singing. I am hoping they can show some of that in the show (view spoiler)


message 45: by Lori (new)

Lori Siska | 15 comments Silverblades wrote: "Lori wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "Diane wrote: "Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of the prologue from Voy..."

Perhaps I missed a step but I can definitely hear the director and producers talking on the Culloden segment, but I cannot see the video behind it. They do mention you have to hit pause to wait until you see the video but that doesn't happen. Any tips? Thanks again.


message 46: by Lori (new)

Lori Siska | 15 comments Ann wrote: "Lori, if you’re watching on the Starz app, there is always a short segment with the director and a couple of others (producers or writers??) at the end of the show. You have to keep watching throug..."
Darn, well now I now. I imagine it should be very interesting with Sunday's extra long show.


message 47: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn | 9 comments Lori wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "Lori wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "Diane wrote: "Carol wrote: "Knowing that we can NEVER have the depth in the show that exists in the books. I actually loved the voice-over of ..."

Are you watching the very short Starz Inside the Segment or listening to the Starz podcast? I only get the podcast as audio, I'm not aware of there being video; it is designed for you to listen to it as you are watching the episode. In Season 2 the podcasts had the sound of the show in the background which made it a challenge to listen and watch at the same time (I can never get it synced perfectly). If there is a video podcast with Ron & Co., I look forward to something correcting me!


message 48: by Parker (new)

Parker | 105 comments Kathryn, I own all three of the DVDs and one of the extras is the podcasts. They're synced perfectly.


message 49: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn | 9 comments Parker wrote: "Kathryn, I own all three of the DVDs and one of the extras is the podcasts. They're synced perfectly."

I'd forgotten about the DVDs! I think my Season 2 had the podcasts but not my Season 1 (2 different volumes) - however, I've loaned those out so I can't even check.


message 50: by Ann (new)

Ann | 19 comments I have the DVD’s for season 2 but don’t remember seeing podcasts. I’ll have to pull mine out to look for that.


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