Islam discussion

The peaceful verses of the Quran outlaw the murder of innocent people, women,children

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Yusra Zainab Laghari (yusrazainab) | 5 comments Thank you Sina for sharing such wonderful verses from Holy Quran. Thnak you again.

message 2: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments It would seem there is a disconnect between the written word and its practice. A huge disconnect.

message 3: by Femmy (new)

Femmy | 120 comments Well, the majority of Muslims are peaceful people, who live by these verses. The disconnect you mention applies only a very small minority, who resorts to violence to achieve their purpose. For example, in Indonesia alone, there are over 200 million Muslims. And how many of those are militants? A drop in the ocean. Unfortunately, some people stubbornly consider the acts of these militants as correctly representing Islam, instead of the acts of the 200 million Muslims.

Yusra Zainab Laghari (yusrazainab) | 5 comments Another fact is that the International media pick up the blacksheep of the community and portray them as Examplary muslims.

message 5: by Not Bill (last edited Aug 28, 2009 10:20AM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments Agreed, it's a small minority. Unfortunately, they make up the power structure, most notably in Saudi. The only reason the media picks up on it is that is practically unavoidable - they can't ignore it. What needs to happen is an ezpansion of the internal dialogue within Islam. It is there, no doubt about it, I've spoken with many individuals who put themselves on the frontline but it needs to be cinched up. There are concerns that there simply isn't the stomach for such a confrontation.

message 6: by Maria (last edited Aug 28, 2009 01:41PM) (new)

Maria (mriakhn) Not Bill wrote: "... The only reason the media picks up on it is that is practically unavoidable..."
the only reason the media picks up on it is because they want to show that Muslims are bad. There are so many things that are done for Christians/Catholics that are among the same line as what comes in the news for Muslims, but obviously if it's done for Christian reasons they don't publicize it. I wouldn't make a statement by just listening to what the media said. (and this is to everyone)

message 7: by Maria (new)

Maria (mriakhn) and i have to say- majority of muslims are very good followers of what the Quran says. the few that aren't are publicized so much it seems to be a lot. But if u compare with the other religions, i'm sure there are just as much "bad" Christians/Jews who do stuff that is totally against their religion. Because everday when i watch the news, i see that people are murdered/harrassed/etc...and i'm almost 99% sure that all those people are Christians/Jewish/etc., just not very religious. (because obviously if they were Muslim it would be mentioned in the news report)

message 8: by Not Bill (last edited Sep 01, 2009 01:45AM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments Really Cecily? That was perhaps one of the biggest, steaming piles of crap passed as "logic" that I've seen in quite some time. However, let's explore your thesis that the media is biased against Islam in favor of other religions (namely Christianity and Judaism). Please provide specific examples of this bias, because after all - I just may have missed it.

Update: And now it is Tuesday, 9/1/09, the 5 year anniversary of Beslan.

message 9: by Maria (new)

Maria (mriakhn) i have no time to go research millions of specific events to a person who is such a cultural egoist, he can't even stand to hear the slightest thing about his own media. And that media is the same thing that made u that person...had it not been the media showing everyone ONLY the bad parts of Islam, u wouldn't be so stingy today.

message 10: by Not Bill (last edited Sep 19, 2009 08:43PM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments Of course you don't have time. How convenient. On the other hand, there are Muslims around the world who do have time, and are putting their lives on the line.

It's not my ego. and it's sure as hell not my media. I make it a point to be engaged and informed. It's no small shame as an American that I get the majority of my news from foreign sources as our own are so politicized. But that's how it is. I'm sure we both can agree and praise the beauty of the internet. Neither of us need be enslaved to a state-run media.

message 11: by Isfand (new)

Isfand  (isfand) | 11 comments Thanks Sina

message 12: by Not Bill (last edited Sep 27, 2009 03:53PM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments since the multiple arrests of homegrown Al-Qaeda terrosists in the US, and the uncovering of multiple terrorist plots with at least involving WMDs, where's the Muslim outrage? Where are the good, peace loving Muslims demanding that these soundrels be taken to the woodshed and justly punished for smearing the good name of Islam?

There's been a few outcris, but THAT IS THE PROBLEM! Other than that, there's silence. People, if you are not going to be part of the solution, then you will surely go down as part of the problem. Care to guess where you are now? We can all work together on this. We can do this, but you NEED TO STEP UP! Flush the platitudes and hopey/changey talk. Take action. DEMAND that your voice get heard. Don't let any media shape your argument because together WE ARE THE VOICE!. Many are waiting, time to own your share. Make no mistake. This time, an Imam has been directly implicated, though there are other cases that have gotten less attention. Those will resurface as the press suddenly awakens ands sees a chance to make some money. Now is the time to act. Step up!

message 13: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments Yes...silence. This is the problem. It's always this way.

message 14: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments's that "peaceful verses" bullshit workin' out for ya? Nice eh?

Yer all a bunch of cowards. COWARDS. I call each and everyone of you out for not coming to terms with what is going on. I've given you all plenty of opportunity to engage thoughtfully but I get the same ol bullshit that the rest of the world does. SILENCE.

Well guess what... you'll go the way of silence, and noone will give a rat's ass. Happy? Didn't think so, so what ya gonna do to turn things around?

message 15: by Femmy (last edited Nov 21, 2009 08:29PM) (new)

Femmy | 120 comments Not Bill, I think action is more important than words, don't you think? A couple of months ago, the Indonesian police raided a terrorist complex and one of the leaders behind several bombings in Indonesia (in Bali and Jakarta) was killed. Other people behind these bombings have also been captured and executed. So we do our own share. I wonder if things like this make the news over there.

Don't take the "silence" here the wrong way. Probably people just have other things in their lives that need their attention.

message 16: by Not Bill (last edited Nov 25, 2009 12:10AM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments Thanks Femmy, but it's well known that the Pakistani ISI is neck deep in what's going on in Islamist circles in Pakistan and the NWFP. They will only give up what is felt to be expendable.

My point was more to what is taking place here in the USA. Recent events over the past 2 months point to a massive disconnect. And that having been said, a very good portion of that is the result of any serious critique by the MSM in this country. We've seen the beginnings of that, but is a crime that it took the murder of 13 people and a unborn child to begin that discussion. My conclusion is that without credible outstide pressure, the US Muslim community seems unwilling or unable to confront the the issues that continue to put it at odds with mainstream US society. Am I wrong? I could be... please someone, anyone comment on that.

message 17: by Wendy (new)

Wendy (wendywins) | 78 comments And, what IS the "mainstream US Community"? Do you characterize it as Christian evangelical? Catholic? Non-church going Americans of whatever heritage or religious background? Describe it because a lot of us are probably NOT in it.
I have friends who are not Christians and I do not consider them as somehow in a separate community from me.

message 18: by Wendy (new)

Wendy (wendywins) | 78 comments Religious killings are absolutely insane. It is likely the killers in this case did it for religion. Any comments?

Attack on Egyptian Coptics kills six
January 6, 2010 10:18 p.m. EST

* Security forces search for the shooter, government says
* Coptics observe Christmas Day on Thursday

* Egypt

(CNN) -- Shooters opened fire at a gathering outside an eastern Egyptian church, killing six during the celebration of a Christian sect's Christmas Eve, Egypt's Interior Ministry reported.

Coptics -- adherents of an Egyptian sect of Christianity that observes Christmas Day on January 7 -- were leaving mass at 11:30 p.m. (9:30 p.m. GMT) Wednesday in Naga Hammadi City when they were attacked, the government told CNN.

One of the dead in the drive-by shooting was a police officer, and the five civilians were all Coptic Christians, the ministry said. Seven others were injured in the shooting in the Nile River coastal city.

Security forces were searching for the shooter, who was accompanied by other individuals in the car, the government said.

About 9 percent of Egyptians are Coptic, according to the Central Intelligence Agency World Fact Book. Ninety percent of Egyptians are Muslim.

message 19: by Not Bill (last edited Jan 08, 2010 12:36AM) (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments There was a time when North Africa, including Egypt, was the cultural center for all of Christianity.

Wendy, because you asked I will answer. A vast majority of the US population identifies themselves as Christian. Over 70%. I'm not going into whether Prot or Cath...or whatever. That number speaks for itself. I would not count all of that 70% perdent of being in the mainstream - there is always a certain percentage of nutjobs. Likewise, most Muslims in the US are not jihadists. The point is, mainstream US/Christian culture knows not to coddle the idiots. When the idiots act up, they get slapped down HARD. Hello...Waco Texas for starters. Get the picture?

message 20: by Emma (last edited Feb 01, 2010 04:16AM) (new)

Emma (emmauk007) I remember years ago reading an article on World War 2, in the article they had a picture of the both ends of the frontlines were Catholic priests were blessing their troops, German Catholics at one end, and English Catholics on the other, both belonging to the same religion. I wondered to myself, do they really think that God will take sides. My point is that many religions throughout history have either participated or by their silence agreed to violence and many other attrocities. The Catholic Church as only recently condemned and admitted that many of their priests are pedophiles, and at a time when they should have ex communicated these monsters, they were sent to another parish to continue their abhorrent acts on children.

We know the famous saying of Edmund Burke " "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

I did find an article that was rather interesting and I quote " heaping an expectation on Muslims - to call out "their" criminals - is absurd when no similar expectation is placed on any other religious, ethnic, or ideological group. Is it appropriate for a white man to tell "the hispanics" to make proclamations against the drug trade? Why should a hispanic who has never even touched drugs speak out against drug lords? His abstention from engaging in the drug trade is condemnation enough. The same goes for Muslims and terrorism. If you want a Muslim to condemn terrorism, realize that he has done so by not engaging in it. Life becomes quite insufferable for Muslims if before speaking about any subject a Muslim is required to first "demonstrate" that he is not "on the side of the enemy."

I will give you the link:

I am not a muslim by the way, and before reading your posts I would have tebded to agree with you on the whole as I personally have never known or seen on TV muslims condemn these attacks. It is always good to inform ourselves of these matters and therefore be in a position to discuss thigns rationally without predjudice but with an open mind.

message 21: by Wendy (new)

Wendy (wendywins) | 78 comments I thought I would share with you some results of a Pew poll which shows that most American Muslims do not support extremism and are concerned about its rise throughout the world. Also, they believe the quality of life for women is better in America than in most Muslim countries, not supporting the restrictions and treatment of women in those countries.

Roughly six-in-ten Muslim Americans (62%) say that the quality of life for Muslim women in the U.S. is better than the quality of life for women in most Muslim countries, while 7% say it is worse, and 23% believe it is about the same. French Muslims are equally likely to think that life is better for Muslim women in their country, while in Britain, Germany and Spain, Muslims are somewhat less likely to hold this view.

Many Muslim Americans share the concerns of the broader population about Islamic extremism. Roughly three-quarters (76%) are very or somewhat concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism around the world, compared with 81% of the U.S. general population.2 About six-in-ten Muslim Americans (61%) are also worried about the potential rise of Islamic extremism in the U.S., although this is lower than the level of concern among the general public (78%).3

message 22: by Wendy (new)

Wendy (wendywins) | 78 comments Muslim scholar issues fatwa condemning terrorism and says suicide bombers are destined for Hell.

Check out the link.

message 23: by Not Bill (new)

Not Bill | 32 comments I saw that Wendy, and apparently this scholar has a very large following in the UK. Very good, it's a start, and I would pray for his safety as his position is not currently held in the "majority".

message 24: by Jim (new)

Jim Syler (calion) I'm sorry, where are the quotes referenced above? I'm arguing with some Christians who say that the Quran is much more violent than the Bible.

message 25: by Ann (new)

Ann Chamberlin | 3 comments Hi Jim,

Here's one:

And say, “O Lord, these are people who do not believe.” Bear with them and wish them “Peace.” In the end they shall know their folly.
—The Holy Quran 43:88–-89

Countered by:

When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
—--The Holy Quran 47:4

But people who say the Bible's not violent are reading very selectively:

1 Samuel 25:22
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

All males, gone. And the women:

Numbers 31:17-18 New International Version

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

is something you might share with your "peaceful" Christians. They preach a lot about peace not wantng trouble themselves, but what about "go and sell all thou hast and give to the poor"? Hhhm.

Written by one who's written books about Khalid ibn al-Walid.

Ma'a Salaama,

Ann Chamberlin

message 26: by Emily Iliani (new)

Emily Iliani (emilyiliani) | 44 comments This is intriguing. From arguing on the hypothesis that Islam is a peaceful religion now we are moving towards arguments for Christianity is a warrior religion too.

I believe all monotheistic religions (for that matter almost every other faith and belief) are peaceful. We must all read the verses and chapters in hand with the historical background of it. On this point, I will not point out any biblical verse, since I am very unfamiliar with it (having read Bible and Talmud doesnt give me the knowledge enough to condemn or to support the scriptures). But certainly when reading Quran (which was revealed at intervals. Read: al-Israa 17: 106) one must understand the historical facts that supports the need for the revelation of any specific verse.

On the loopsided, bias, bigoted media functions, I assume we have all watched John Pilger's The War You Dont See. Lets also assume that all religions in some other parts of the world are being portrayed negatively to suit some people's hidden agenda. And because this is an online (read: international) community, lets not assume all those who take offence to Islam are from the USA.

I think Hassan Mehdi made a good point in this vid

And I think Wendy's link to the scholars' take on terrorism is spot on. Thank you.

As Muslim, I must say the Muslims are giving Islam a bad name. True. But does this really make Quran and Islam non-peaceful?

message 27: by Ann (new)

Ann Chamberlin | 3 comments Wonderful link, Emily. I've listened to it twice.

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