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Religion > knowing what you believe

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message 1: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments How is it that so few Christians (and probably followers of many other religions) have read the bible in its entirety? I've debated with many Christians and found that my knowledge of scripture is often sufficient enough to stump them, or at least get admittances of ignorance in regard to a specific topic.

Am I the only one who finds this to be ridiculous? I'm not even a Christian, let alone a theist of any kind, and I know plenty about the bible, etc. Shouldn't someone who professes to believe in the religion have committed themselves to understanding it thoroughly before making a decision on the matter?


message 2: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments We should, but we don't.


message 3: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments Aaric wrote: "We should, but we don't."

Why not, though? How can you base such a huge decision like that on only a fraction of information about what you are getting yourself into?


message 4: by Jayda (new)

Jayda Yes, if someone professes to believe in the religion I agree, they should commit themselves to understanding it thoroughly. It depends on the person/people, honestly.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

I hate how all they've ever read in the bible usually stops at what their pastor tells them to read.


message 6: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments Jayda wrote: "Yes, if someone professes to believe in the religion I agree, they should commit themselves to understanding it thoroughly. It depends on the person/people, honestly."

And so do throughly understand what the Bible and the Book Or Mormon are and represent?


message 7: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments Aaric wrote: "We should, but we don't."

Then your not a real Christian.


message 8: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments Jessi wrote: "Aaric wrote: "We should, but we don't."

Why not, though? How can you base such a huge decision like that on only a fraction of information about what you are getting yourself into?"


For me personally I just have a hard time reading things that aren't interesting to me. My mom wanted me to read a short, informational book that I had no interest in whatsoever. she offered me $25. I wasn't interested in the book so I never got past the first 15 pages. It's the same for the Bible.


message 9: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments So the book that your entire religion is based on ISN'T INTERESTING TO YOU? YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT.


message 10: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments Davis wrote: "Aaric wrote: "We should, but we don't."

Then your not a real Christian."


No it doesn't. If you think that's what makes you a Christian, you are wrong.


message 11: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments You have lost any and all right to call yourself a Christian.


message 12: by Jayda (new)

Jayda Davis wrote: "Jayda wrote: "Yes, if someone professes to believe in the religion I agree, they should commit themselves to understanding it thoroughly. It depends on the person/people, honestly."

And so do th..."


Religiously, yes.


message 13: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments I highly doubt that. I bet you don't know who wrote the Bible, where they wrote it, or why they wrote it.

To believe in the book of Mormon is the same thing as reading Harry Potter as a religious text.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Davis wrote: "So the book that your entire religion is based on ISN'T INTERESTING TO YOU? YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT."

Seriously.


message 15: by Jayda (new)

Jayda I've studied the Bible thoroughly for the past two years, let alone my entire life. The Book of Mormon is the same way.

And you can think whatever you want, Davis. You'll never convince me.


message 16: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments Davis wrote: "So the book that your entire religion is based on ISN'T INTERESTING TO YOU? YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT."

Just because I don't find something interesting doesn't mean anything. If I don't find you interesting, but you are telling the truth that doesn't change the fact that you are speaking the truth. And, who created the wounds for you to put salt on? I don't have any.


message 17: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments "Just because I don't find something interesting doesn't mean anything. If I don't find you interesting, but you are telling the truth that doesn't change the fact that you are speaking the truth. And, who created the wounds for you to put salt on? I don't have any."

Your saying that the very principles that you base your life on are boring. You no longer can argue from a Christian perspective, so please shut up.


message 18: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments Jayda wrote: "I've studied the Bible thoroughly for the past two years, let alone my entire life. The Book of Mormon is the same way.

And you can think whatever you want, Davis. You'll never convince me."



So you studied the Bible? Then where was it written and when?



message 19: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments Aaric wrote: "Jessi wrote: "Aaric wrote: "We should, but we don't."

Why not, though? How can you base such a huge decision like that on only a fraction of information about what you are getting yourself into?"
..."


The bible doesn't interest you, do you didn't read it all. You merely accepted what you are not even fully aware of. That makes no sense whatsoever. When I asked how one could make that kind of decision without understanding the implications thoroughly, I meant why not, but I also literally meant HOW. It doesn't even make sense how you can call yourself a follower of a religion that you are semi-ignorant of.


message 20: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments Jayda wrote: "I've studied the Bible thoroughly for the past two years, let alone my entire life. The Book of Mormon is the same way.

And you can think whatever you want, Davis. You'll never convince me."


The Book of Mormon is a joke. The only religion more asinine than Mormonism is Scientology, although I don't think it really counts as a religion, even though the United States government recognizes it as one.


message 21: by Aaric (last edited Aug 05, 2009 12:20PM) (new)

Aaric | 141 comments Davis wrote: "Your saying that the very principles that you base your life on are boring. You no longer can argue from a Christian perspective, so please shut up."

You're*

Yeah you are boring too, so that means you aren't speaking the truth either. So, I'm wrong and you're wrong. Who's right?


message 22: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments And if you're wrong that means God exists. So if you would kindly shut your boring mouth up that would be great.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

He's not talking about if it changes the truth or not. He's saying that the book you BASE YOUR LIFE ON is not interesting to you. How is that even possible? If anything, it's a little pathetic.


message 24: by Aaric (new)

Aaric | 141 comments I never said I knew nothing about it. I have read a lot of the Bible, it not being interesting changes nothing.


message 25: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments Aaric wrote: "I never said I knew nothing about it. I have read a lot of the Bible, it not being interesting changes nothing."

But you haven't read the whole thing, which is saying you believe in something you know nothing about.


message 26: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments Aaric wrote: "I never said I knew nothing about it. I have read a lot of the Bible, it not being interesting changes nothing."

But you adhering to a belief system that you do not fully understand has some serious implications.


message 27: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments And this is exactly what I was getting at. Not only is this semi-ignorance common among Christians, but oftentimes it is not even viewed by those who are guilty as a serious issue.

When people have opinions on matters of which they have little to no knowledge of, people will usually call them out on it because, after all, it's hard to have a say on something that you are ignorant of. Isn't this the same thing?

So many people are completely oblivious to so many of the terrible atrocities in the bible, and yet they claim to believe wholeheartedly that it is the model by which we should live our lives. And when these things are pointed out to them, instead of reconsidering their position (or considering the matter in a remotely unbiased way), they make excuses for those things because they have already committed to believing these things in the first place, before they were even aware.


message 28: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) | 7365 comments Mod
"To believe in the book of Mormon is the same thing as reading Harry Potter as a religious text. "

It'll catch on. Give it time.


message 29: by Liz (new)

Liz (lizgore) | 3163 comments i hope so lauren


message 30: by Dan (new)

Dan If you think that's what makes you a Christian, you are wrong.

How can you possibly know what makes you a Christian if you haven't read the Bible? You just declare yourself a Christian, and that gives you the right to decide what makes someone a "true" Christian?


message 31: by Liz (new)

Liz (lizgore) | 3163 comments you are blindly following lies


message 32: by Dan (new)

Dan Not only is this semi-ignorance common among Christians, but oftentimes it is not even viewed by those who are guilty as a serious issue.

Exactly. The attitude of a lot of Christians is, "Whatever the Bible says, I'm sure it's true."

For a lot of Christians, all the Bible is is something to give their opinions heft, even if those opinions have nothing to do with the Bible.


message 33: by Lee (new)

Lee For a lot of Christians, all the Bible is is something to give their opinions heft, even if those opinions have nothing to do with the Bible.

The only thing giving the Bible more weight than any other book is how many people believe it be true.

It's a cycle.


message 34: by Dan (new)

Dan Totally. And the fact that no one reads it but just holds it to be somehow "special" gives it heft. In reality, it should add no heft. It has no credibility. Citing the Bible as evidence should weaken your argument.


message 35: by Lorna (new)

Lorna | 1273 comments Pronouncing the Bible as non-evidence doesn't leave the christians much to fight with. Or anything to fight with.


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

And so they whine and say it's unfair we don't let them use the Bible as evidence because it's so obviously been proven true.


message 37: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) | 7365 comments Mod
"Pronouncing the Bible as non-evidence doesn't leave the christians much to fight with. Or anything to fight with. "

That's the point. Everything they believe is part of an unverifiable book.


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)

Everything we believe? I believe in tons of things that I have never read in the bible. I am christian, but I still have some different views. That does not mean that I am not a christian. I have been told so and it is a lie. I believe in God and I love him.

BUT, there are things that I have learned in church and from the bible that I don't think are correct.


message 39: by Davis (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 3837 comments Such as?


message 40: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) | 7365 comments Mod
If you don't fit the definition of a Christian, then it's misleading to call yourself one.


message 41: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments well there are a plethora of things (sorry to answer for you) that can be taught in church and in the bible that are a) just plain ignorant b) immoral or c) hypocritical


In fact, I think that most of it is like that.


message 42: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) | 7365 comments Mod
Take the quiz in the What Are You thread.


message 43: by Ruchi (new)

Ruchi (ohlookitsruchi) God condemned Adam and Eve to eternal damnation because they ate the fruit of knowledge. According to this, maybe God doesn't care whether you know what you believe or not, as long as you worship him and give the church more money and such things.


message 44: by Jayda (new)

Jayda I don't recall Him ever saying that he condemned them to eternal damnation?


message 45: by Ruchi (new)

Ruchi (ohlookitsruchi) Kicked them out of the garden of Eden and made them lead a painful mortal life thereafter. This also applies to their kids, and their kids, and their kids...

Alright, maybe not eternal damnation, but it wasn't pleasant, either.


message 46: by Jayda (last edited Sep 04, 2009 08:38AM) (new)

Jayda Yeah, eternal damnation would imply eternity in hell in the after life :)


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

Jessi wrote: "How is it that so few Christians (and probably followers of many other religions) have read the bible in its entirety? I've debated with many Christians and found that my knowledge of scripture is ..."

I'm only thirteen and I've had tons of awesome debates with people which squished their thoughts... and I don't have the bible memorized.


message 48: by Cheryl (new)

Cheryl Turner | 8 comments I am a Buddist and I believe in god but god has given us free will, that is what the Adam and Eve story is about I believe that it attempts to show the theory of cause and effect. I think some people follow religion so they do not have to take responsiblity of their own lives!


message 49: by jessi (new)

jessi (infinitevantage) | 437 comments ~*I love Deidara-sempai!!*~(Ally) wrote: "I'm only thirteen and I've had tons of awesome debates with people which squished their thoughts... and I don't have the bible memorized."

I am guessing you are a Christian? In which case, first of all, I would love to debate with you myself lol. Additionally, I am sure you have also noticed this pattern, even if you are an exception to the rule.


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