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message 1: by Ilyn (last edited Aug 05, 2009 02:02AM) (new)

Ilyn Ross (Ilyn_Ross) | 1071 comments Mod
Please check out this group about politics: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...

message 2: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 05, 2009 03:21PM) (new)

Caution to all thinking persons, the group mentioned will lash out at you personally if you deviate at all from the proscribed doctrine, particularly where you support reason and liberty and oppose the use of coercion, violence, and special privilege.

This experience is not a one off instance but rather a pattern of behavior confirmed repeatedly through several people unknown to each other until the vicious attacks began. Even simple requests for civility and honesty will get you targeted by those celebrating and seeking power over innocent others.

Reader beware..

message 3: by Ilyn (last edited Aug 05, 2009 05:04PM) (new)

Ilyn Ross (Ilyn_Ross) | 1071 comments Mod
Brian quotations from his Goodreads Tea Party posts: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... - Message 5: “…The military initiates violence here and abroad… thugs paid for through coercion and theft…”

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... -

Message 131: "... it is pure myth that the military protects freedom. The only threat to our freedom comes from government, the same government which determines how to employ those troops to ensure obedience."

Message 149: "... the US government does support the second most active terrorist state in the world: Israel...."

message 4: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 05, 2009 06:10PM) (new)

Yes indeed I stated those facts, and unlike yourself, I always conducted myself civilly, honestly, and always using sound reason.

Even the fact that here you would try clear ad hominem speaks volumes as to not only the nature of the group but also your own character, yet nothing of the actual issue.

What you leave off, because it gives lie to your implication, is that I asked repeatedly for even a single example of any instance where the military ACTUALLY protected freedom, where it prevented the government from seizing our liberty. Never could you or anyone else offer even one such example. One would think that given that you were making universal claims, that you would at least be able or willing to support such claims rather than lash out at the person asking questions. Where I and others have been perfectly willing to discuss actual issues, present evidence and sound argument, and allow that it is reality, not Ilyn, that determines truth, such was not the path that you and a few other bullies chose to adopt. Instead you always lashed out in a hateful manner at the person when you had nothing whatsoever to offer in response to the evidence or well reasoned arguments presented.

Why not drop your trademark usage of ad hominem and instead embrace reason, evidence, and liberty? Or at the very least simply adopt basic civility? For those who seek knowledge and truth allowing reality to determine what is true is absolutely necessary. Or to put it another way, you have to be willing to allow that in fact you might be mistaken and that sound reasonind and evidence can indeed demonstrate this. Truth does not begin and end with you and your desires. Objectivity requires dropping this assumption that "true" means "agrees with Ilyn." Where you do not like the truth, basic honesty and civility require refraining from name calling and personal attacks.

I do thank you for making it perfectly clear that the warning is definitely warranted.

message 5: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 05, 2009 06:18PM) (new)

And I notice that you still have not apologized for calling me a liar, even after I cited irrefutable evidence that in fact the US does imprison more people for non-crimes than ALL other industrial nations..

Instead you merely later changed your claim to one that my accurate statement was inaccurate merely because you do not want it to be true. The facts are clear and unlike ANY of your own claims they are fully supported by the evidence provided. Your choice to adopt ad hominem in response speaks volumes..

Readers beware this group..

message 6: by Ilyn (new)

Ilyn Ross (Ilyn_Ross) | 1071 comments Mod
Why don't you form your own group?

message 7: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 05, 2009 06:24PM) (new)

I do with every voluntary peaceful civil association I have in life. But then here again you are employing red herrings to distract from the issues..

What is so terrifying about reason and reality that you choose to avoid it and engage in personal attacks? Why not accept that reality determines what is true, and that this means that not everything you wish to be true is actually true? Reality is really great once you get to know it.. And civility is a fine tool for gaining new perspectives and ideas, and (here is the really scary part) learning new things! :)

message 8: by [deleted user] (new)


Please change your nature and show a modicum of respect for others by removing my name from the category as it implies that I created it or am responsible for it, when in fact I am not as we both know is not true. Here again of course I am using "true" to mean "corresponds with reality" as is the common usage amongst thinking persons.

Call it Ilyn's red herrings, or Distraction Inc. or whatever, but please recognize that I did not create it, nor am I responsible for it so to put my name on it is dishonest on your part.

message 9: by Ilyn (new)

Ilyn Ross (Ilyn_Ross) | 1071 comments Mod
The first poster created the topic. This is self-evident.

I've deleted your post in the other topic of the same title. You can post all you want here, or you can create your own group.

message 10: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 06, 2009 06:57AM) (new)

Nothing quite like failure to respect individuals because they support reason, evidence, and civility.

Clearly your answer is "no" you won't show even a modicum of respect for others.

I am quite surprised you are admitting this time to the deletion of posts. Any chance you will also admit to the changes in the posts on the "tea party" threads as well which remove many of the direct insults from you and others to not merely myself, but several others as well? Those insults as you will recall all stemmed from instances where myself and others were supporting freedom and responsibility, against your arguing for massive state control over the lives of innocent individuals... Not really even remotely similar to the ideas of the original tea party...

Any chance of the apologies you clearly owe myself and many others for acusations ranging from calling us liars (your claims were proved false as you recall) to members of the KKK, to supporters of mob rule, to "assholes" and the like?

Why all of the games Ilyn? What is so frightening about honesty and civility that you will go to such lengths to avoid it, to avoid treating others with basic respect for persons?

I will ask again that you show some small modicum of the basic respect for others and remove my name from this title of this thread as it is not my creation and I do not deserve to have my name slandered in association with your tea party group which has engaged in hateful dishonest behavior, as has already been noted.

The question is one of integrity. Either you have it or not. As long as you continue this charade the answer must be in the negative.

message 11: by Fenixbird (new)

Fenixbird SandS | 4 comments Well, now that has been expressed! And now for something completely different??

Tea Party? Makes me think of Boston Tea Party....and America's independence from Great Britain admist the mid-1700's?

We ladies love a social get together & formed our coffee clutches I do not doubt since the beginnings of time and Cave Women!

So, tell me, Betsy Ross, how DID we go about still getting our independence and drinking our Earl Grey too?

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