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Rants / Debates (Serious) > Does "under God" belong in the pledge of allegiance?

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message 1: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments This whole "under God" phrase in the pledge of allegiance issue seems to recur every couple of years and recently made some local news.

What do you think? Does the phrase "under God" as in "one nation under God" belong in the pledge? Wikipedia has a decent outline of how the phrase was added.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_o...

My gut reaction is "no" but we've got better things to do than worry too much about removing a prepositional phrase from a recitation that well, hardly anyone recites outside of elementary school and county board meetings or whatever. What do you think?




message 2: by Gus (new)

Gus Sanchez (gussanchez) As much as this would go against my better instincts, the whole "one nation under God" thing really doesn't bother me. I see the phrase as a catch-all for those who see America as a nation under God, whoever that God may be.

Like you, I think this is much ado about nothing.


message 3: by Donitello (new)

Donitello | 148 comments Do any other democratic nations have their citizens do a "pledge of allegiance"?


message 4: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
Do kids still say the pledge of allegiance?

I don't see anything wrong with having some allegiance to one's own country. And I agree, "under God" could mean a variety of deities, not just the white bearded man on the cloud, right?


message 5: by Lori (last edited Aug 03, 2009 08:59AM) (new)

Lori As far as I know, kids no longer say the pledge at public schools. At least in Seattle they don't! For me, it was a great tool for learning which was my right arm, ha. As a matter of fact, for a very long time I'd kinesthetically do the pledge in my head to isolate my right side!

I don't really mind the under God thing because as many have previously stated, there's a ton of other battles to get riled up about. And as Sally says, the god part just incorporates so many spiritual notions, not the white bearded man.

But I can see how it bothers some people in this day and age of fundamentalist Christians trying to turn this nation into one of their God with a capital G. THAT I have a problem with.


message 6: by Donitello (new)

Donitello | 148 comments Lori wrote: "For me, it was a great tool for learning which was my right arm, ha...."

Hey Lori, if the cops asked you to recite the alphabet in a field sobriety test, would you sing it? Apparently many do. Ho ho ho!

They recite the pledge every morning at my husband's public high school. (New Jersey, in case you're curious.)




message 7: by Lori (new)

Lori Doni - I probably would, at least in my head. But now I do know that LMNOP are separate letters and not just a jumble of elememopee.

I STILL do the rhyme, 30 days hath September to figure out the length of months.... Oh dear.


message 8: by Matthieu (new)

Matthieu | 1009 comments We still had to say it, Lori.

I don't think Seattle accurately reflects the rest of the country...


message 9: by Lori (last edited Aug 03, 2009 09:20AM) (new)

Lori Yeah, Matt, Seattle is disgustingly PC. Did you have to pledge past elementary school?


message 10: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
Lori: I never figured out that rhyme. I just figure the months I know, and then count forward or back from there.


message 11: by TxLadyForever (last edited Aug 03, 2009 12:50PM) (new)

TxLadyForever | 190 comments the kids around here have a pledge to everything - 4-H, FFA, Scouts, School * everthing!

Gotta stand for something or fall of anything!


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments The kids say the pledge in the schools here in Olympia. Personally, I don't think "under God" belongs in the pledge.
I agree with this paragraph from Wikipedia:

Other objections have been raised since the addition of the phrase "under God" to the Pledge in 1954. Many critics contend that a government requiring or promoting this phrase violates protections against establishment of religion guaranteed in the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

However, as it is not compulsory to say the pledge, I'm okay about leaving it as it is.


message 13: by Lori (new)

Lori Jax - do they say it everyday?


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments Yep, every day, Lori. In the elementary schools, they have a kid lead everyone in the pledge over the loudspeakers, piped into every classroom.


message 15: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
Seriously?


message 16: by Lori (new)

Lori Huh. Well I just checked with Jake, and he doesn't even know it!


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments Seriously.


message 18: by Lori (new)

Lori I'm really not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, I hate so much about our govt, and yet this is still a great country and I do believe in allegiance to it, and making it better.

Yet his schools do community outreach stuff so there is that.


message 19: by Donitello (new)

Donitello | 148 comments Stating the obvious here, but one can easily feel allegiance to their country without daily rote recitations.


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments Agreed, Doni. I'm just glad the salute was changed from the Bellamy salute to the hand over the heart.

Bellamy salute:
[image error]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ple...


message 21: by Donitello (new)

Donitello | 148 comments !!!!!
How did you get inside my head like that??


message 22: by TxLadyForever (new)

TxLadyForever | 190 comments Doni wrote: "Stating the obvious here, but one can easily feel allegiance to their country without daily rote recitations. "

Absolutely!!!!!


message 23: by Heather (new)

Heather (heatherjoy) | 384 comments Nope, I'm a huge believer in separation between church and state.


message 24: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments look on coins


message 25: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash?


message 26: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
"less awkward" is a delicate balance.


message 27: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments people rarely take oaths or pledges seriously anyway. it could say something about the Mayor Of Who-Ville and no one would bat an eye one way or another in most cases


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments Let's all repeat the Non-Conformist's Oath!


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

I can't conform to that request Jackie.



message 30: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments i pledge not to conform


message 31: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) I don't wanna.


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

It appears that we are starting to conform to the non conformity, can anyone confirm that?



message 33: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) I refuse, Jim.


message 34: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments i just took an oath not to pledge to anything


message 35: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) *trips circuit breaker*


message 36: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments is that a conference with a congregation? i am confuddled


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

Can you confirm your confuddleness to either the confirmation, the conference or the congregation?



message 38: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments this conversation is not conducive for concentration "con mi trabajo"


message 39: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) chili con carne


message 40: by [deleted user] (new)

Larry wrote: "chili con carne"

with cheese


message 41: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) via con dios nacho


message 42: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
And, the thread has arrived at cheese.





message 43: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) It was Jim's fault.


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

I'll take the blame :-D.



message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

It seemed better with chili than the other alternative.


message 46: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments we should start a thread called "seven degrees to cheese" where we take anything and make seven steps to cheese


message 47: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17320 comments Mod
that's what every thread already is! :P


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments Don't thank me, KD. Thank Mr. Steve Martin. :)


message 49: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) That wild and crazy guy.


message 50: by Michelle (new)

Michelle (luvrdn) | 501 comments
I believe that putting God in the pledge has blessed our country. Until recently our country as a whole projected a faith based society.


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