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Leo Durocher: Baseball's Prodigal Son
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Lance (sportsbookguy) | 12563 comments Mod
Discussion thread for "Leo Durocher: Baseball's Prodigal Son" - one of the June Book of the Month selections


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments I took some notes as I read. I hope this makes sense.
1. Even when thrown out of communion school, he says. "that's okay father, I'll just go down the street to this other church. God goes there too."

2

. Interesting that Leo adored Miller Huggins while so many disliked him-Ruth, Meusel

3. Ruth's accusation that Leo stole his watch when he was drunk. Leo-"If I had stolen anything, it would have been his Packard. Even on his death bed, Ruth was telling Happy Chandler the watch story and the marked 100 dollar bills. Looked like a slam dunk case to me. Apparently waived despite his slick defense because in part Ruth wanted him out of the league

4. Leo-outcast on Yanks except for Huggins.

5. When with the Reds, a sports writer said, "They shoot a cannon in Cincinnati when he misses a ground ball, and they shoot two cannons when he gets a hit

6. Interesting that Leo got along so famously with Huggins and owner of Reds Sidney Weil-and Branch Rickey father and son.

7 How much would you have paid to see Stengel and Durocher fight in 1936?

8. He reminds me of Billy Martin in terms of baseball skill and temperament although Leo was more tolerant. I was impressed that in 1941, a time of isolationism, he stood up in a rally against Hitler and was a vocal exponent of integration of baseball as early as 39. Interesting that he was fired more times by Larry MacPhail than Martin was by George

9. Surprised to learn that the famous "nice guys finish last" quote was made by a reporter summarizing a rant Leo made about Mel Ott and the Giants(7th place team)

10. The suspension issue in 47-trumped up or just? It seems to me after this book and just reading Leo's memoirs that Chandler was pressured by the Catholic Church and more so by a sitting Supreme Court Justice(Murphy). Imagine that a Supreme Court Justice wrote to the baseball commissioner to get rid of Durocher without a hearing or any due process. That was distasteful.

11. The catch by Mays on a 330 foot hit by Billy Cox and the throw home for the double play

12. The nostalgic 1951 -3 game series never gets old for me.

13. The depiction of Durocher in the 1951 classic Angels in the Outfield with Paul Douglas. Ik'e favorite movie. The electronic cheating and the denials for decades

14. The 53 fight between Furillo and Leo after Rueben Gomez(who fled the stadium after he hit Joe Adcock) drilled Furillo. How would you like to see Leo in a head lock!

15. 1955 end of season and Leo takes Willie in a tunnel and tells him "you are the best I ever saw"-good enough for me.

16. Leo the rogue who was sued in 64 for alienation of affection and he admits he loved the woman's 26 year old daughter who stood up and said she's reconsider now
17. How badly he treated Ernie banks and yet Banks remained a gentleman throughout. On the other hand, Durocher felt it was time to move to a youth movement.
18. Leo knew by the end of 69 and especially in Houston that he was an anachronism.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Nice summary Harold. Good points.

I've always wondered about the Babe Ruth watch story. Any story that has quotes from Leo, of course needs to be taken with a large grain of salt. And with the Babe's impetuousness, it could have easily been misplaced or walked out with a girl, and then he put the blame on the first person he saw. So we'll never really know.

I like the comparison with Billy. I think 2 things helped Leo live a longer and slightly more stable life: 1) Leo had perfected a sort of smooth persona in which he could turn on the charm when needed, whereas Billy never gave a crap what anybody thought and rarely put away the chip on his shoulder, and 2) Leo wasn't a boozer and so didn't have the self-destructive binges. Both could light a fire under a team.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Doug wrote: "Nice summary Harold. Good points.

I've always wondered about the Babe Ruth watch story. Any story that has quotes from Leo, of course needs to be taken with a large grain of salt. And with the Ba..."
I agree on both points. Leo wasn't much of a drinker but Dickson does paint him as an addictive gambler. I just don't see Laraine Day with him but even after their divorce, he was friendly with her, and she accepted his HOF plaque.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

I didn't realize Laraine Day had accepted his plaque. As much as he had his faults, Leo was very much a lady's man and never lacked for female companionship.

I don't know if this story was included in the book, but since Noah and Amanda are off for the summer, I guess I can tell it. When Leo was with the Astros he and a young reporter were having a drink waiting for the team plane and as the conversation turned chummy, the reporter decided to broach a subject that had been bothering him.

He said, "Leo, I've been following the team all summer and I've noticed that even though you're pushing 70 and bald, when we're on the road you get laid more than any guy on the team. What's your secret?"

Leo leaned back and imparted this fatherly advice to the young reporter: "Here's what ya do kid. You make a date with a dame at a restaurant for 8 PM. At exactly 8:10 you put your hand under the table and grab her [in deference to Brina I will omit the word Leo used but it was not nice]. Now when you do that, one of two things is going to happen. And what you need to remember is that if she slaps you and leaves, it's still only 8:10 and you've got plenty of time to find another one."


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Doug wrote: "I didn't realize Laraine Day had accepted his plaque. As much as he had his faults, Leo was very much a lady's man and never lacked for female companionship.

I don't know if this story was includ..."
No it's not in the book, but offshoots of that story have been told for years now; well at least up until 1980


Mike (mike9) | 6338 comments Great review H man. Your better then cliff notes.


Mike (mike9) | 6338 comments When you mentioned Leo and Billy having some things in common, the first thing I thought of was that their managers saw them as leaders on the field despite limited talent.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Mike wrote: "Great review H man. Your better then cliff notes." Thank you Mike.


message 10: by Bob (new)

Bob D'Angelo | 83 comments Doug wrote: "I didn't realize Laraine Day had accepted his plaque. As much as he had his faults, Leo was very much a lady's man and never lacked for female companionship.

I don't know if this story was includ..."


The story has been told many times, Leo supposedly said (in one of the many incarnations). I am paraphrasing here for the most part: "If you pick up a woman at 7 p.m., you make your move at 7:05. No go? Hell, it's early yet, there are other women around. But if she says yes, then hello, dear. Some pretty damned famous broads say yes awfully quick."


message 11: by Bob (new)

Bob D'Angelo | 83 comments Harold wrote: "I took some notes as I read. I hope this makes sense.

I like the way Paul Dickson has written this biography. He gives credit to Gerald Ezkenazi's biography 20-some years ago, and also addresses many of the statements Durocher made in his autobiography, "Nice Guys Finish Last." Research is key when writing about Leo, and Paul does a marvelous job with it. I wish somehow those records about Durocher's suspension could be unsealed. I still find it hard to believe that Chandler, a good ol' boy from Kentucky, would be swayed by the objections of the Brooklyn CYO over Durocher's womanizing and jump-the-gun marriage to Laraine Day. It can't be proven, and Paul says as much by calling it baseless, but he brings it up: Gambling could have been the bigger issue, particularly in the three-game playoff with the Cardinals. Some of Durocher's moves down the stretch and in the playoff could be viewed as either failed hunches or slippery ways to lose games. Not sure which is correct. But Paul researched it thoroughly before concluding that the rumor was unfounded. As much as Leo might have been in debt, losing was abhorrent to him.

Here's my review on the book in my blog, for anyone interested in having a look:

http://bobdangelobooks.weebly.com/the...

Bob


message 12: by Michael Linn (new)

Michael Linn | 10835 comments I wish I can remember in which Brooklyn Dodger related book I read it in, but there was this story about gamblers in McPhail`s box associated with Leo or something along those lines. As for the possibility of dumping games, it just doesn`t seem to me that was in Leo`s DNA. Cheating, yes- dumping, no. I wish I had something more concrete. Great review as usual Bob
Mike Linn


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Bob wrote: "Doug wrote: "I didn't realize Laraine Day had accepted his plaque. As much as he had his faults, Leo was very much a lady's man and never lacked for female companionship.

I don't know if this sto..."
That was in the book.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Michael wrote: "I wish I can remember in which Brooklyn Dodger related book I read it in, but there was this story about gamblers in McPhail`s box associated with Leo or something along those lines. As for the pos..." Yes it is in Durocher's book and Dickson's book about MCPhail leaving 4 tickets to his box for known gamblers/ quasi mobsters.


message 15: by Mike (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mike (mike9) | 6338 comments I've read that too Mike. MacPhail should've gotten booted also.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments UPDATE ON WILLIAMS TRIAL
The first witness called by Mitch Williams was an adverse party; namely former President of the MLB Network Anthony Petitti, who is currently the COO of Major League Baseball. (The Network is a subsidiary of Major League Baseball). Mr. Petitti, who succeeded Rob Manfred in the COO position, was the man who hired Williams in 2009 and who also terminated him on June 26th, 2014. Williams' lawyer successfully endeavored to narrow down the specific provision of the morals clause that was deemed worthy of termination of the contract. That provision allowed for termination if the artist(Williams):" committed an act(s)
that brought Williams into public disrepute, scandal, or offended a substantial group of the community, or reflected unfavorably on any party to the agreement." Then counsel for Williams went through the allegations individually with Petitti and suggested that they were based on hearsay, unnamed sources, and not reliable factual accounts of the events of the May 10 and 11 ball games in the tournament for 10 year old youngsters. Counsel also got Pettiti to admit that he had not waited for Williams to produce statements of individuals in his defense.
But Petitti retorted in a soft and barely audible tones that he had seen a photograph, which was also shown to the jury, of Williams chin to chin with an umpire. That he had thereafter been given a video of the games on Saturday and Sunday by Billy Ripken(current MLB Network analyst and former player) which confirmed that Williams had been ejected and that he had continued to argue with the umpires for seven minutes, including an alleged profanity filled rant, before he left the game. Pettiti admitted he had no direct knowledge of the "acts" but that he had spoken to Williams by phone after the first incident and yet again after Sunday's incident. He said he found Williams' explanation "not credible" when compared with the video and accounts from Deadspin(a sports website that published two articles about the "acts" alleged. Williams told him he had his back turned to the umpire and yelled into the crowd with a shrug that we will just have to get us some new umpires which resulted in his ejection. (The attorney for MLB Network had argued in his opening that turning one's back to an umpire and pretending to talk to the crowd was a ruse used to avoid ejection.) Testimony also revealed that one umpire had challenged Williams to a fight in the future during the episode. Pettiti also said he disbelieved Williams' account of the alleged instruction by Williams to his team's catcher(the catcher is the son of Williams) to tell his own pitcher to bean the opposing batter. (the other team's pitcher) The video which Petitti saw after the Sunday game show Williams talking to his son between innings. Then the son(catcher) is seen walking to the mound and talks to the pitcher. On the very first pitch the batter is struck with the pitched ball. Petitti quotes Williams' as saying that he merely told the catcher to tell the pitcher to "knock the batter off the plate" and not to throw at his head or hit him. Petitti said he felt even by his own admission Williams acted at least recklessly for telling a 10 year old to "knock him off the plate" because such tender years children don't have the necessary control to pin point where the ball will go.
Petitti said he felt Williams did not display in that conversation an understanding of the quality and nature of his inappropriate acts. Those acts also included an allegation by the child who was hit by the pitch that he was called "pussy" by Williams in hearing of many players.
Counsel for Williams primary examination was to suggest that Petitti had no real proof upon which to fire her client and that he had fired Williams in retaliation when Williams retained a lawyer. The examination revealed that Petitti had been willing, even after a commercial sponsor cancelled a Dove television spot with Williams, to try and save Williams' job based on the above conditions. Pettiti said he had been negotiating with Williams' agent Russ Spielman from May 16th, when Williams began his suspension, for an amended contract for several weeks about conditions which also included anger management and an admission of wrong doing. Spielman, according to MLB Network's lawyer, urged Williams to accept the offer and told Williams that if he didn't, he was looking at "scorched earth".
Negotiations continued until Williams retained a lawyer who wrote to Pettiti and said that MLB Network had breached the contract by not paying, that Williams denied any wrong doing, and that counsel wanted to negotiate a settlement. The next day Pettiti fired Willimas. Counsel for Williams suggested by her questioning that Petitti fired her client not because of any proof of wrong doing, but rather because he had hired a lawyer to defend his contractual rights. Pettiti denied that and said he fired Williams at that point because he had tried to reach out to Spielman and got no response for three weeks. When he got a letter from a different lawyer( not one who had negotiated the original contract) which denied any wrong doing, Pettiti felt he had no recourse but to terminate Williams. He also said another incident bolstered his opinion that Williams was unrepentant. During that interim, Williams had been in the office of a female publicity relations staffer and Williams had brought the woman to tears in the public office by cursing and pounding his hand on her desk. Testimony ended as the video of the games were about to be shown. Earlier Judge Kassel had ruled that MLB Network was not permitted to argue that the umpires had smelled alcohol on Williams' breath and that his eyes were red and his speech slurred. The basis was a discovery violation in that MLB Network did not specify that as a factor


message 17: by Mike (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mike (mike9) | 6338 comments Fascinating, I feel like I was there.


message 18: by Harold (last edited Jun 07, 2017 05:03PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Mike wrote: "Fascinating, I feel like I was there." It was so cool and very few spectators except a few lawyers. I talked to Anthony Petitti during a break-really nice humble man. Of course I gave him my card for my book(:)
I also walked out of court for the day in the elevator with just Mitch and Irene his wife. I told him "for what it's worth, I though you were excellent when you were on the MLB netwrork. He appreciated that


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Michael wrote: "I wish I can remember in which Brooklyn Dodger related book I read it in, but there was this story about gamblers in McPhail`s box associated with Leo or something along those lines. As for the pos..."

I agree--Leo and Pete Rose are very much alike in that matter. Sure they gambled their butts off, but there is no way either would ever do anything to make their team lose.

I always thought it was common knowledge that the real reason Leo was suspended was because he had grown too chummy with underworld figures and gamblers; sort of a preemptive strike if not for actual gambling wrong-doings.

We've discussed this before, but there is no way you can believe that since 1930 only Pete Rose has gambled on baseball. For years a large class of players virtually lived at the dog and horse tracks; gambling was a way of life. They had to have rubbed a lot of elbows with gamblers and some probably lost more than they should.

But each commissioner has gone out of their way to show that there is no hint of gambling in baseball. It is vital to the game to show that it is lilly white.

So they make up other charges when they need to deal with someone. Like when Denny McLain, who I'm convinced has very, very sound evidence that he may have thrown the 1967 pennant, needed to be disciplined, Bowie Kuhn suspended him for a little bit of 1970, while clearly stating that there was no evidence of gambling, and after he came back he was suspended the rest of the year for throwing water on a reporter (in a joke) and for carrying a gun (even though no one could be found who actually saw the gun). It was a clear attempt to get him out of the game for gambling without ever saying the dirty G-word publicly.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Doug wrote: "Michael wrote: "I wish I can remember in which Brooklyn Dodger related book I read it in, but there was this story about gamblers in McPhail`s box associated with Leo or something along those lines..." That's interesting and alarming that he may have thrown the pennant race. In view of his later life of crime, I'd be inclined to believe it.
But what is shocking to me about Leo's suspension is that a sitting Justice of the Supreme Court(Murphy) wrote to happy Chandler asking him to suspend or ban Leo. That's a disgrace.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

I hadn't heard that about the Supreme Court Justice. But, I agree. And you of all people know enough to know a legal disgrace when you see one.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Doug wrote: "I hadn't heard that about the Supreme Court Justice. But, I agree. And you of all people know enough to know a legal disgrace when you see one." Yes, it's chronicled in Prodigal Son.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 12563 comments Mod
Following all of this is fascinating. I admit to knowing very little about Durocher - even before I pick up this book, learning a lot from all of you. Thank you.


message 24: by Alex (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Decker So this is my first time posting. I'm really excited to join this conversation. I have been a lifelong baseball fan and I'll admit I really didn't know much if anything about Durocher. I knew he was, and was aware of a few of his accomplishments. But, he was always kind of a shadow on the fringe of whatever I was reading at the time if it was about his time period.

After reading this book, I kinda was mad at myself for not getting to know him sooner. In general the writing was fine. Dickson is a good writer and does a great job of explaining the events in a clear manner without making it personal. My only real issue was that his transitions from topic to topic were pretty much non existent which was jarring. We could be talking about the ending of a season and all the sudden we are in May of the next season. It always made me think that I was skipping something.

The impression that I was left with and almost immediately had while reading the book was that Durocher could thrive in any era of baseball. I'm a firm believer that a player in any era could find a way to play in any era. But Durocher seemed blessed with that innate self awareness that allowed him to do wrong and still wind up on his feet. That innateness allowed him to never, ever learn his lesson and just push right through again which is why I think that he would be an unstoppable force at any time.

That being said, for me, the most maddening part of the book was his HOF candidacy. Every single time the author wrote something along the lines of Durocher being left out again, I became more exasperated. To me putting together all that I read, he was a first ballot guy, second very maybe. His contributions to the sport were numerous and long lasting. The pettiness that saturated the voting during his candidacy was disgusting.

I enjoyed the book and learning experience so thank you to whoever recommended it. Definitely a good read for anyone who is a fan of baseball or even a fan of that particular era.


message 25: by Harold (last edited Jun 26, 2017 03:14PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments I'm not so sure I agree with your conclusion that Durocher could make it in any era. Maybe as a player he could, but as a manager he is a dodo bird. When was the last successful loud mouth baiter in baseball? Pinella? Durocher would be so out of touch with the players, their salaries, their independence, the way the game has changed so much(bunting, hit and run, stealing-all downplayed today). How would he deal with the slide rule at 2nd base or the Posey Rule.
Plus Leo was an obnoxious guy and he wouldn't be tolerated by any owner or commissioner today-just my opinion. He couldn't get along with Ernie Banks or Santo and there were rebellions against him in 1941 (Dodgers) and Cubs as well as Colt 45's. He may have been fine for the 30's 40's and 5o's but he would never make it today.


message 26: by Alex (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Decker There is a significant portion of the nation for which his loud, boisterous manner would be loved. I mean, I hate to say this, but if Donald Trump can become president with his loud and boisterous non PC ways, then some owner out there is going to look at him and think "Okay, he's the kind of manager I want."

I think that a part of accepting that he would work in any era is accepting that innate knowledge would allow him to be receptive to things that are more common today. Salaries, unions, different rules would be met with a different assessment from Durocher than they would if they were put into play in the 30s or 40s.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Alex wrote: "There is a significant portion of the nation for which his loud, boisterous manner would be loved. I mean, I hate to say this, but if Donald Trump can become president with his loud and boisterous ..." I hear you Alex but if you read Durocher's own autobiography(memoir) he admits he could no longer handle, accept, or want to deal with the changes in baseball since the inception of the players' union. That's why he walked away from baseball. So, I respectfully disagree. He would call the saber-metric revolution bull ding and ridicule it. So I doubt he would utilize any GM who adhered to those principles.


message 28: by Dave (new)

Dave Jordan | 113 comments Working on something about the HOF selection process. The amount of subjectivity that had occurred (not to mention the cronyism of the veterans' committee) is pretty interesting. Just look how long it took someone like Johnny Mize to get in.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Dave wrote: "Working on something about the HOF selection process. The amount of subjectivity that had occurred (not to mention the cronyism of the veterans' committee) is pretty interesting. Just look how long..." Jay Jaffe just came out with a similar book Dave.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments I don't get how LAA is above .500 especially without trout. To me they are a weak team at best. Anybody follow them?


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

Alex wrote: "There is a significant portion of the nation for which his loud, boisterous manner would be loved. I mean, I hate to say this, but if Donald Trump can become president with his loud and boisterous ..."

Good points Alex. I agree with your assessment that Leo always seemed to land on his feet and never felt anything was his fault or that he should change (part of his ego and personality disorder).

He did have a very hard time with the new breed of players in Houston--especially Cesar Cedeno, who some felt had the ability of Willie Mays but never had the drive absolutely made Leo go nuts sometimes with the waste.

Like Billy Martin, Leo may have been good for a short-term change of pace to come in and kick some butts to turn a franchise around. I think they could both still be successful at that due to their force of personalities but both would quickly wear out their welcome.

I'm not really sure Leo deserved to be an early-ballot guy for the Hall. He definitely didn't deserve it as a player and there had always been the suspicion of cheating and bending the rules as a manager which rubbed a lot people (exactly everyone who had to compete against him) the wrong way. He probably got in where he deserved.


message 32: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 27, 2017 05:41AM) (new)

Harold wrote: "Dave wrote: "Working on something about the HOF selection process. The amount of subjectivity that had occurred (not to mention the cronyism of the veterans' committee) is pretty interesting. Just ..."

I have an advanced copy of the Jaffe book. About 1/3 of the way through but I think everyone in this group will want to have this and keep it on their shelf for the future. He does a great job of breaking down exactly the types of discussions we have had on the Hall regularly for the past few years.


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

And spoiler alert Mike: he thinks Maz sucks.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Doug wrote: "Harold wrote: "Dave wrote: "Working on something about the HOF selection process. The amount of subjectivity that had occurred (not to mention the cronyism of the veterans' committee) is pretty int..."
Thanks Doug. I'll get this soon.


message 35: by Alex (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Decker Harold wrote: "Alex wrote: "There is a significant portion of the nation for which his loud, boisterous manner would be loved. I mean, I hate to say this, but if Donald Trump can become president with his loud an..."

I wouldn't be so quick to have Durocher dismiss sabermetrics. I think that because of his do anything to win mantra he would at least listen to the idea. I just don't think that he is stubborn enough to look at the numbers ignore them.


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

But he might have been the first to utilize a computer guy to hack another team's database and he probably would have had them insert wrong numbers to foul things up for the other teams.


message 37: by Alex (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Decker Doug wrote: "But he might have been the first to utilize a computer guy to hack another team's database and he probably would have had them insert wrong numbers to foul things up for the other teams."

Oh man. Now that is a story I would read.


message 38: by Barbara (new) - added it

Barbara (bdegar) | 193 comments I'm about 20% through the Duroucher book, and will keep plugging away.


message 39: by Dave (new)

Dave Jordan | 113 comments Yeah, I'm actually writing a review of the Jaffe book now. "Simply speaking, the definitive bookshelf analysis for the Hall of Fame selection process. Jaffe delivers the most objective, sober look at Baseball’s loudest conversation." That's what my blurb will be. It's an awesome reference tool, with an outstanding sabrmetrics/statistical deep dive primer at the beginning.


Jeremy Fenton | 10 comments Just finished this book! 4☆
A flawed man you can't help but like, a true character of the game. In some ways seemed to be ahead of his times, though as I'm sure we all do, fell behind in other ways.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Jeremyfenton wrote: "Just finished this book! 4☆
A flawed man you can't help but like, a true character of the game. In some ways seemed to be ahead of his times, though as I'm sure we all do, fell behind in other ways."
Spot on.


message 42: by Mike (new)

Mike Reuther | 118 comments What Major League manager today would remind you of Leo Durocher? I can't think of anyone who matches his colorful personality. Managers today rely on sabermetrics rather than firing up players and "going with their guts."


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Good question Mike, but I'm blanking on anyone even remotely close.

Players are so highly paid now, no manager would be able to get away with Leo's motivational techniques. Players and agents would revolt and Leo would be shown the door. It's hard to fire up a guy who's making more in one inning than most normal people do all year, and managers are afraid to go with their guts when a bunch of people are standing by online with reams of printouts showing why they should have done it the other way.

That's why it seems all managers now are either invisible or new-age philosophers in hipster glasses. It's the only way they can survive.


Jeremy Fenton | 10 comments The video review has also made the manager/umpire arguments all but disappear.
Durocher would've been bored managing now!


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Mike wrote: "What Major League manager today would remind you of Leo Durocher? I can't think of anyone who matches his colorful personality. Managers today rely on sabermetrics rather than firing up players and..."
I think the last of the old school guys were Pinella, Martin and Dallas Green. That's a long time ago.


message 46: by Alex (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Decker Mike wrote: "What Major League manager today would remind you of Leo Durocher? I can't think of anyone who matches his colorful personality. Managers today rely on sabermetrics rather than firing up players and..."
I kept thinking about this when I was reading the book. I have two names that keep running through my head that might fit the bill. Tony Pena or Ozzie Guillen. Of course, neither are managing right now so...currently managing? No one comes to mind. Maybe...Mike Scoiscia, But, I'll admit that is a huge stretch.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Alex wrote: "Mike wrote: "What Major League manager today would remind you of Leo Durocher? I can't think of anyone who matches his colorful personality. Managers today rely on sabermetrics rather than firing u..." Maybe Jim Leyland is a recent guy too, but not in the same category as martin et.al


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 12563 comments Mod
Joe Maddon might fall under "colorful character", but certainly not the firey personality of Durocher. And back in his Yankee days, Showalter had more of a short fuse than he does now with the Orioles...but he's always been a " thinker" if you will.


Lance (sportsbookguy) | 12563 comments Mod
There is a passage in the book I just read, Electric October: Seven World Series Games, Six Lives, Five Minutes of Fame That Lasted Forever, in which Bill James believes the link between Durocher and Martin is Cookie Lavegetto. James stated that since Cookie played for Durocher and roomed with Leo's right hand man Charlie Dressen, Cookie then passed on some of that when he took Martin under his wing.


Harold Kasselman | 17525 comments Lance wrote: "Joe Maddon might fall under "colorful character", but certainly not the firey personality of Durocher. And back in his Yankee days, Showalter had more of a short fuse than he does now with the Orio..." Good point about Buck. he used to kick dirt on the umpires shoes when he got mad in his younger days


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