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Intersectional Feminism > I'm a Man, and I'm a Feminist!

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message 1: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments Hello all!
I'm a Man! ( shocker I know )
As if you couldn't tell from the title already I am a man who enjoys feminism. I've studied a bit on feminism already through the fabulous Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza on feminist Theology. If you've not heard of her, I highly recommend you check her out!

But moving forward, I'm new here to this group and am interested in growing in my knowledge and (ideally) application of Feminism daily. I just wanted to introduce myself and find more people who are down the same path as me!
I'm a 20 (almost 21 people!!!!) guy who has done quite a lot of travel across the world so far. I've moved 17 times in my life already!
I'm fairly new to the book craze and am becoming more of an avid reader every day. I'm excited to see where this will lead me in life. ( I've always wanted to have the biggest book shelves just for the sheer reason they look cool. )
Sometimes I write, sometimes I write well, or at least I think I do. I enjoy tea with a nice book and some background music to keep my ears at attention while my eyes and mind work thinking through what incredible words I've probably just read.

But all in all, I'd just like to say Hello! And that I hope while I'm here I'm challenged and taught more and more every time I open up this group! Thanks In advance for the support that will come up and shoutout to all the Women here! You all rock!

Much love - Wolf


message 2: by Elise (last edited May 26, 2017 11:14AM) (new)

Elise (talkingtoelise) What a lovely introduction! Though I may not be on exactly the same path as you, it delights me to see men who wish to deepen their knowledge on feminism/the application of feminist ideals in everyday life (due to stereotypical connotations of course)

I have not yet explored Elizabeth Fiorenza so I am grateful for your recommendation, if you wish for some short reading material surrounding 21st-century feminism then Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie published a TedTalk which has since been converted into a book-length essay called We Should All Be Feminists, it is such a brilliant read.


message 3: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments Wow!
Thanks for the recommendation as well Elise!
It's definitely been a crazy ride so far. I'm definitely interested in that short read you've referenced!


message 4: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Miller (rosethorn7) | 123 comments Hello! If you want to learn more about gender equality/feminism I suggest you start by reading any materials that cover the subject of feminism in any format. Such books that I learned a great deal from include (I am Malala and How to Be a Woman). I also found it extremely helpful to listen to TED talks and speeches by people discussing feminism. Emma Watson's speech that launched her campaign of He for She is an excellent watch. I find that the best way to learn more about gender issues and feminism is simply by listening and discussing with others!


message 5: by Nolan (new)

Nolan (nrmora) | 2 comments I am a man and a feminist. I did join HeForShe a few months ago and have been avidly reading and trying to catch up with the Our Shared Shelf selections as well as trying to find other books on gender equality. I've also watched many of Emma's talks on feminism and her speech at the U.N. It has been an enlightening experience. My main concerns with the feminist cause are health-related. In this era of Donald Trump and the Republicans in charge, I worry for the reproductive rights of women in my country. They should have control over their own bodies and no one else should tell them otherwise. It is a fragile time as I have also donated to Planned Parenthood, as they face defunding from this administration, thus putting women's health in jeopardy. I look forward to learning more from all of you and Emma and am proud to be a male feminist!


message 6: by Bryana (new)

Bryana | 3 comments This was so uplifting to read. Unfortunately in this day, when people hear the word feminism they automatically relate the word with" man hating" which is not the definition of the word at all. Together, men and women, we need to turn these negative connotations linked to the words" feminism" and "feminist" and translate them back into the positive connotations that they once had. In other words take feminism from "man hating" to supporting gender equality. As women we cannot fight for our equality alone. We absolutely need the other half of the population to fight the fight with us. It is so refreshing to hear men, such as yourself, stand up for what you belive in and help us fight for what is right. I am priviledged to live in a country where I don't have to worry about my rights being taken away from me. Women have been fighting for equality for over 100 years and I am extremely melancholy that still to this day there are women that have no freedom, no rights and no control over themselves. We tell ourselves that we have come such a long way and in certain ways we have, yet in many we have not. For instance, about two decades ago we had to look in an encyclopedia to find information on anything and now we have everything we need on a little device that slips right into our pockets. We have discovered and invented so much over the past years and had the chance to answer so many questions pertaining to medecine and astronomy that weren't able to be answered years ago. Yet we still don't have an answer to why women are being paid less than men. We still don't have an answer to THIS DAY why certain women have none or very little rights. Why certain women still have no control over their bodies. Both women and men come from an egg and a sperm. We were made the same way therefore we should be treated the same way.


message 7: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments Definitely Bryana!

I agree, nothing can come to change without both sides coming to a conclusion. I just hope and pray that someday soon that conclusion can be made for the betterment of all Men and Women equally.
I find myself crying every single day now that I've joined and realised all the works that needs to be done. And how I somehow feel responsible for men's actions I've come across.
I know it's not my fault. But still, the fact that a person could be treated so differently, to this day boggles my mind. I'm left utterly speechless.
Ive found that recently when going to the gym, I put on a song that I find my own meaning to. And the lyrics repeat "Now your Gone" now it is a punk song so it has a lot of edged-ness to it and sheer emotion. And when I have this song going it makes me think of every single beautiful Woman who's been taken advantage of or whom has been sold into trafficking, the list goes on. But when I think of this it forces me to push beyond my limits of what I've done so far. Because the sheer truth is, what I've done so far, and how I've been doing it, just isn't enough to cut it.
So right now I'm trying to find a way to "put my money where my mouth is" in a way. I've signed up for HeForShe, as well as I've been looking into running a race to bring more attention to this issue. I'm strongly passionate about these things, as I'm sure you could've guessed haha :).
I just want to extend my hand and my heart to any and every Woman that's gone through anything that seemed like it was impossible or was way too hard to go through.
First by saying this. You are so incredibly beautiful, and so beautifully incredible. You have so much to offer and so much to share with the world.
Second by saying this. Thank you, you are so loved by (if it seems like no one around you) me. Thank you for sticking this out. For staying with the cause, for pulling yourself out of whatever it is you've gone through.
Third by saying this. IM SO, SO SORRY. On behalf of all men, I'm sorry you weren't treated as equal. I'm sorry you were hurt. I'm sorry you were misunderstood. I'm sorry you were judged. I'm sorry you felt you needed to look, or feel a certain way.
I am so, so sorry.


message 8: by Astrid (new)

Astrid (astridaster) Bryana wrote:
"We still don't have an answer to THIS DAY why certain women have none or very little rights. Why certain women still have no control over their bodies."
Aren't these excellent questions?
To me a lot of this looks like war between the sexes - where there are victims on both sides (more on women's side though), so it seems only natural to me also for men to have a look at this strange culture. It is stronger or weaker, but roughly the same almost everywhere: Men (or some or a lot of them or even most) think they have to dominate (their) women.
How can it be that a husband can denie birth control to his wife (the case in a lot of countries) and force her to have more children than she wants and can support?
How can it be that rape is a strategy in wars?
Is there a hate of (some) men against women (who give birth to a life that isn't always easy, and can even be very hurting sometimes)?
Is it the usual way of having a kind of life insurance by controlling and dominating someone?
Women also can do that. They only most often are not in the position (or only in the family, then their victims are the children).
But culturally most often it is men.
Are these the only miserable strategies we have to survive in this sometimes difficult world?
I'm sure the strategy of collaboration between equals is much more efficient and helpful to cope with life and its demands. But this point of view doesn't seem to be the one of the majority.


message 9: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 227 comments Men, by the definition of what Feminism is, cannot be Feminists. They can be allies (Shitty one am I), but not Feminists.

Akin to white people being allies in the civil rights movement.


message 10: by Gerd (new)

Gerd | 428 comments Adam wrote: "Akin to white people being allies in the civil rights movement."

Ermm, civil rights are not a matter of skin colour I would think, because that would, well, racist thinking.


message 11: by Georgios (new)

Georgios Adam wrote: "Akin to white people being allies in the civil rights movement."

Ermmm no. Look



message 12: by Georgios (new)

Georgios Georgios wrote: "Adam wrote: "Akin to white people being allies in the civil rights movement"


Ermmm no.

http://www.pappaspost.com/video-turki...


message 13: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments A man can absolutely be a Feminist by the Definition.
It's Definition is "A person who advocates for women's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes."
Or in more layman terms "Someone who believes women should have the same rights as men."


message 14: by Bryana (new)

Bryana | 3 comments Of course men can be feminists. As Wolf stated, the definition of feminism is " A person who advocates for women's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes." Nowhere does it claim that you have to be a certain sex to support women's rights.


message 15: by Ana, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Ana PF | 746 comments Mod
It's quite the simple definition, right? ;) I'm starting to think the challenge lies exactly there, in its simplicity. It's far too clear of a concept, in a complex world where values have been a dangerous boomerang, the weapon of the elites to ensure that the masses will not go astray.

So for each male that joins a cause that should be embraced by everyone, I can only feel happy to welcome them. Gender equality is reached through some marvellous channels, one of which being questioning the toxic notion of masculinity that so many of you are subject to daily. See? We all have something to win from the exchange. :)


message 16: by Elise (new)

Elise (talkingtoelise) Although no where does it state you have to be a certain gender to support womens rights, many (and myself for that matter) feel as though it is better for men to call themself feminist allies due to the fact the core of feminism is for gaining equality for women and men will never directly experience gender oppression due to the fact it is unique. Here is an article with a little more information regarding the issue, although I have issues with some of the information in here, for the most part it is an interesting read https://thedevelopmentset.com/male-fe...

Regardless of your views on the naming of men that support feminism, the basis of their support (the demand of equal representation, the abolishment of mansplaining and and gaslighting to name a few) stays the same in both arguments so I do not think the name is a massive issue to dwell on. For those that do wish to learn more about feminism and how feminism helps men as well as women, nomas.org is a website which contains task groups on topics ranging from the commercial sex industry to men's mental health!


message 17: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments One of the points you've made Elise is that men can never experience gender oppression.
Is this under the assumption that you believe no man has ever been oppressed by women that have surrounded him?
I'd say that is has definitely happened before. I've been subjected to it when I was younger myself even!
Now, know I'm not attacking you, or your beliefs.
But I think that to say it's never happened or isn't happening is an ignorant statement.
Now the real part of your statement, or the correction, if you will.
Is that men will never experience the level of oppression women have. Through history it is shown, through the fact that men are here they are subject to opposition towards women.
Men can and more than likely will never understand what it's like to be a woman who is oppressed. That I agree with, but men can be oppressed. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is oppression gender less? Does it take a side? No. Oppression simply follows the people who use it. It is a tool used for the destruction and humiliation of equality.


message 18: by Gerd (new)

Gerd | 428 comments Elise wrote: "and men will never directly experience gender oppression ..."

Outsch.
While it may seem that way, I'm fairly sure that men can, and do face opression based on gender - only on a varying degree.


message 19: by Elise (new)

Elise (talkingtoelise) See, although I believe men can be discrimminated against I wouldn't call it oppression. Simply due to the fact that oppression is about prejudice and discrimination being built into social structures and is therefore about authority and power. Discrimination, on the other hand, is the unjust or prejudicial treatment of people. Oppression is instituationalized and systematic, it is woven through social structures and ultimately that has been created by men. Majorities cannot be oppressed by minorities. The ideology is similar to the fact although caucasians can discriminated against, they cannot be oppressed. For more information, I do suggest reading this article as it's difficult for me to explain all of the varying factors in one comment https://www.bustle.com/articles/71400...


message 20: by Gerd (last edited May 28, 2017 10:25AM) (new)

Gerd | 428 comments Elise wrote: "The ideology is similar to the fact although caucasians can discriminated against, they cannot be oppressed..."

"Cannot" is a mouthful and seldom the truth.


Elise wrote: "https://www.bustle.com/articles/71400..."

Well, by that definition she's probably right, certainly so if we narrow it all down to heteronormative cis white males in Western Europe, America and Australia. Queer and transgender men I could still see disagree with the statement that men cannot be oppressed or face sexism.


message 21: by Wolf (new)

Wolf Tocheny (WolfReads) | 10 comments The definition of Oppression is as follows "Prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control."
So by its definition and all of its synonyms it is not "institutionalised" although is it often seen as that.
As far as the article you've produced as a source, I've looked at the woman who's written it and she has no qualifications as far as I can see to be speaking on this subject. Although her list of people who have used her writings is in fact impressive. And please do, if you can find her qualifications link then to me.
But otherwise it'd be like me, someone who has studied Theology and Philosophy, talking about Maths.

On another note, women have had prolonged unjust treatment.
But who is the judge of how long prolonged is? Just a thought. As well as Oppression having the same definition as "The state of being subject to unjust treatment" in this definition there are no time statements.
There is not way to determine that it is a difference between the two besides having thoroughly researched the meanings and their backgrounds.


message 22: by Elise (last edited May 28, 2017 10:30AM) (new)

Elise (talkingtoelise) I, personally, do believe that oppression can be institutionalised and if Google it there will be hundreds of articles that come up which explain this further. Obviously, having not long turned sixteen there is so much room for me to expand my knowledge and I am open to constructive criticism and varying opinions, however, I do believe that majorities cannot oppress minorities. Although there is no definition for prolonged, women for centuries have had to abide by laws and regulations imposed on them by men, so I would say that the unjust treatment is prolonged as it has continued for a long time more that it should have.

The author of the article has done extensive research into the topic, she writes for magazines such as Vice Magazine and Noisey. As well as this she has published books such as Pink Bits and wrote a web series regarding feminism. She has also worked on multiple campaigns and is studying her Masters of Human Rights Law.

Also, to reply to Gerd's recent comment I do apologise as I ignorantly missed out queer and transgender men, as they can be oppressed.


message 23: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments Elise wrote: "I, personally, do believe that oppression can be institutionalised and if Google it there will be hundreds of articles that come up which explain this further. Obviously, having not long turned six..."

I'd be very careful with the word "all", and especially when you are as young as we are and still need to learn a lot. (I'm 20).

I also think that men can be feminists, because feminism is the belief of the social, economic and political equality of the sexes. And that includes all sexes, not just females.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...


message 24: by Celia (new)

Celia Walters | 2 comments hello!


message 25: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 227 comments FTA: "I didn’t go on my local Reclaim the Night march last year. I wanted to, but then I looked at the event page on Facebook and saw how many of those planning to go were men, and I thought: who, exactly, do these guys think they’re reclaiming the night from? Reclaim the Night started in the UK in 1977 as a specific response to male violence and institutional disregard for women’s lives and freedoms. In Leeds, the indolent Ripper investigation had allowed Peter Sutcliffe to go on killing for years. The police, it appeared, simply didn’t care enough about the lives of prostituted women to mount a proper manhunt, and it was only when Sutcliffe murdered a student that they took action. That action was to tell women to stay at home after dark."


Continued here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/...


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