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Wealth & Economics > New image for business(wo)men

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message 1: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments With high-tech and computer geniuses, some of which never attending a business meeting b4 becoming a billionaire, the biz style changes or maybe disappears. Much less suits and ties, more shorts and torn t-shirts.
Quite a representative example, although I don't agree with the digest's intonation:
http://www.vh1.com/news/87693/billion...
Traditional outfit may be left for consultants, while those who call the shots don't care much about the garment.
So, how would you like your boss: on flipflops and shorts or in a top hat?


message 2: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Depends where you are, Nik. Don't fancy flip-flops and shorts much in the Uk most of the time. But, having said that, we've had two days rain in one and a half months lately. Ideally, I think one should dress, or undress, to suit your personality. I haven't been in a boardroom for many years but I hear things there are changing. In my day it was avant garde, brave even, to wear red braces.


message 3: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments P.K. wrote: "Depends where you are, Nik. Don't fancy flip-flops and shorts much in the Uk most of the time..."

Yeah, in the Silicon Valley the weather might be more accommodating, however the dress code seems to become a little less rigid..


message 4: by Holly (new)

Holly (goldikova) I recently acquired some new clients who got rich in the tech industry and they are definitely shorts and t-shirts people. Their entry into my world was a bit of a rude awakening for them; I received a frantic phone call informing me that they were being denied entry to the clubhouse at Keeneland. Yeah, sorry about the dress code thing.........but I did tactfully mention it beforehand. Maybe they thought it just didn't apply to them?


message 5: by Nik (last edited May 24, 2017 09:47AM) (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments Holly wrote: "I recently acquired some new clients who got rich in the tech industry and they are definitely shorts and t-shirts people. Their entry into my world was a bit of a rude awakening for them; I receiv..."

Poor Bezos and Zuckerberg I can see them shrugging in disbelief -:)


message 6: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Was that for the horses and dogs, Holly?


message 7: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments I agree with P.K. - it depends where you are. I have sat on the Boards of two JV companies, half of which were multinational. Dress had to be tidy. The Chairman always wore a suit and tie, but others were less forced, and I did not. I currently am a consultant to two smaller companies, and nobody wears suits, except visiting bankers or lawyers. Probably New Zealand is more relaxed about rigid dress codes.


message 8: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments But I do think that dress-codes are sometimes needed and I have to admit that, perhaps like most women, I enjoy having to wear a suit and look smart occasionally. Now I live in the country where no one notices what you wear as long as it has a stain or two here and there or dog-hairs or cow .... on your shoes, I do get the urge to make a statement, hence the latest photo I have is my avotar one in a DJ for a fund-raising to rebuild a village hall that some vandals burnt down.
But I love the style, especially with women's clothes, of the late forties; those smart, suits and big hats, and trilbies and umbrellas.


message 9: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments I have to admit I am a bad example - I am devoted to function. I want to be comfortable and warm. Of course there is no need to look scruffy, but function takes precedence over formality with me


message 10: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments So, tux or any piece of cloth and not very neglected bristles?


message 11: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments With virtual meetings becoming more relevant, bristle control will be important :-)


message 12: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5516 comments What are bristles?


message 13: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Ian wrote: "With virtual meetings becoming more relevant, bristle control will be important :-)"

Virtual sightings of tv journalists, politicians and so-called celebrities during the virus restrictions has been fascinating, not only for getting a glimpse of the inside of their homes but for seeing them caught short before they can pretty themselves - and also for their physical deterioration during the lockdown time; lack of exercise, even the commute, and I have seen many of them go grey.


message 14: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 1579 comments Scout wrote: "What are bristles?"

Well, there's the afternoon shadow, but then there's the interesting up nostril view...


message 15: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5516 comments Okay. Got it. I've heard that women are now going big on accentuating their eyes, since that's all they have to show on Zoom with the mask wearing. Probably big sales on false lashes.


message 16: by Nik (last edited Jan 04, 2021 03:25AM) (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments Scout wrote: "Okay. Got it. I've heard that women are now going big on accentuating their eyes, since that's all they have to show on Zoom with the mask wearing. Probably big sales on false lashes."

Zoom doesn't require wearing a mask (I hope even the new mutation can't be transmitted via the internet), but in a public appearance or while mingling among people, saving nicely on lipstick nowadays :)


message 17: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments Ha, accountant Nik on the job :-). From my experience of Zoom, the saving on air fares was significant, but then again I don't use lipstick or false eyelashes :-)


message 18: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Zoom definately has its pitfalls. A British labour MP had an interview-call from a tv station booked. He got up early, shaved and dessed in a jacket, shirt and tie - but didn't bother with trousers. During the interview he had forgotten there was a mirror behind him which revealed his underpants and bare legs. The interviewer was bold enough to ask him why he wasn't wearing trousers. He had to admit he was caught with his pants down. I also liked the one where another journalist was doing her daily zoom post and her dog sneaked onto a bed behind her and made great job of making a nest with her pillows; it could have been worse, I suppose. The old advice about not doing interviews with children or animals can now be applied to Zoom.


message 19: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments Agree - wearing underpants may be viewed as too conservative by the labour electorate


message 20: by J. (new)

J. Gowin | 3097 comments Just keep your hands where everyone can see them.

Jeffrey Toobin
https://youtu.be/lYPAV0kJnV0


message 21: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Nik wrote: "Agree - wearing underpants may be viewed as too conservative by the labour electorate"

Or any MP; they need that part of the body free to speak with.


message 22: by Lizzie (new)

Lizzie | 1660 comments I prefer suits and ties. I prefer to dress the old-fashioned "professional" style myself. In truth, I have always found it easier to put together a suit than to try and figure out what to wear on casual Friday.


message 23: by J. (new)

J. Gowin | 3097 comments The management types that I have dealt with for the last decade are cubicle dwellers wearing polo shirts, chinos, and loafers. I've seen corporate vice presidents dress like that five days a week. The hilarious bit is the handful of low ranking supervisors who dress for success. They go to the minimum effort of button up shirt, slacks, and oxfords with no jacket or tie. The result is that every customer tour thinks that these floor supervisors are higher ranking than the polo shirt wearing executives guiding their tours. The same holds true with the ladies, a button up blouse, pressed slacks or skirt, and polished shoes make people think that those ladies rank higher than their bosses.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

J. wrote: "The management types that I have dealt with for the last decade are cubicle dwellers wearing polo shirts, chinos, and loafers. I've seen corporate vice presidents dress like that five days a week. ..."

Astute observation.

On the rare occasions that I visit offices, I've noticed that the workforce always look comfortable dressed up but that the management appear awkward dressing down. Makes me wonder if they put their suits on when they get home on an evening.


message 25: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments J. wrote: "I've seen corporate vice presidents dress like that five days a week. The hilarious bit is the handful of low ranking supervisors who dress for success. They go to the minimum effort of button up shirt, slacks, and oxfords with no jacket or tie. ..."

If there is any kind of consistency and I attempt to guess president's attire - it should be shorts and washed out t-shirt


message 26: by P.K. (last edited Jan 12, 2021 08:03AM) (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments It's a long time since I walked into an office landscape, so I can't relate to them now, except to notice that open-necked shirts seem to have got acceped in almost any situation now. I can't remember when I last wore a tie. I open my wardrobe and look nostalgically at some very nice silk-ties as I do at antique furniture. Who was it who said, 'Clothes maketh the man'? But, like any other art-form, they do matter. Personally, I like women looking like the forties; tailored suits, even hats and gloves. I think what you wear helps how you feel and how you think and that should be the criteria when deciding what to wear.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

When David Cameron was British Prime Minister, one of his special advisors was particularly casual in his attire.

Apparently, this amused Barack Obama. When he visited the UK, he asked Dave, 'Who's the beach bum guy?'


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

P.K. wrote: "It's a long time since I walked into an office landscape, so I can't relate to them now, except to notice that open-necked shirts seem to have got acceped in almost any situation now. I can't remem..."

Hi PK, I think it was Mark Twain. I've never been able to get on with his books but his sayings are second to none.

Agree with all your points. My partner often wears a beret and I think it makes her look like a member of the wartime French Resistance. Suits her too :)


message 29: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments P.K. wrote: "I can't remember when I last wore a tie...."

Do we see you wearing a bow tie on your profile pic, P.K.? :)


message 30: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments What most forget is that once upon a time (like when I was young and my father wore a tie) the tie was functional - it held the collar and neck part of the shirt together and hid the studs. Now it is simply fatuous.

When I took up my first proper job, everybody there wore ties. I started not wearing them, and within three weeks everyone stopped wearing them. A tie is the most useless piece of clothing in a laboratory, dangling into chemical reactions and running the risk of getting entangled in machinery.


message 31: by J. (new)

J. Gowin | 3097 comments Nik wrote: "If there is any kind of consistency and I attempt to guess president's attire - it should be shorts and washed out t-shirt"

Funny you should mention that. The CEO of our parent company is in the habit of making regular video updates. Because these videos may be seen by shareholders, he wears a button-up shirt with french cuffs, no jacket or tie and collar open. What is hilarious is that the shirts still have the creases from where they were folded in the package. I honestly think that his secretary hands him the fresh shirts just before he makes the videos. You'd think that a CEO's secretary would at least get the shirt ironed.


message 32: by J. (new)

J. Gowin | 3097 comments Ian wrote: "What most forget is that once upon a time (like when I was young and my father wore a tie) the tie was functional - it held the collar and neck part of the shirt together and hid the studs. Now it ..."

If I remember correctly, the long neckties that were popular during the 20th century, were originally meant to hide the shirt buttons between your collar and waist coat. Before then men's shirts had studs or were sewn up.

I suppose that I'm a bit strange, in that I prefer a lot of the older styles. I'm the kind of guy who likes trench coats that still have the hooks in the collar, so that when you flip it up you can secure it.


message 33: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9729 comments In the first half of the twentieth century, shirts and collars were separate entities. That way the shirt lasted longer and did not have to be abandoned for frayed collars. No wastage back then. Things lasted, in part because they had to. A somewhat alien lifestyle to now. I recall Mum ironing and starching collars.


message 34: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Beau wrote: "P.K. wrote: "It's a long time since I walked into an office landscape, so I can't relate to them now, except to notice that open-necked shirts seem to have got acceped in almost any situation now. ..."

It's the sort of thing Twain would say, Beau; a very witty man, When I was a kid Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn were among my favourite books. He was probably taking a dig at our famous public school, Eton, Their slogan is Manners maketh Man. Berets for women is very forties, can be cute if one has the hair to go with them.


message 35: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Ian wrote: "What most forget is that once upon a time (like when I was young and my father wore a tie) the tie was functional - it held the collar and neck part of the shirt together and hid the studs. Now it ..."

I too am of the generations that had separate collars; hated them. Yes, we starched them too. But I missed out on the starched front shirt - except for evening dress.


message 36: by P.K. (last edited Jan 13, 2021 11:02PM) (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Nik wrote: "P.K. wrote: "I can't remember when I last wore a tie...."

Do we see you wearing a bow tie on your profile pic, P.K.? :)"


You are right Nick. As I explained somewhere else; the pic was taken a coupla years ago at a fund-raising to build a new village hall. I just haven't got round to changing it. What should I wear. How about a Birthday Suit? But I would have to get someone to iron me first


message 37: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments As sartorial matters seem to be of interest, perhaps you would like to hear of the epitome of good dress; Sir Frances Chichester, while making the first west to east solo round-the-world trip in a sailing boat in 1966 dresssed in a dinner jacket before opening his can of beans every evening nomatter what the weather was doing, Force 10 or otherwise. That, I think makes the point about clothes maketh the man - or woman.


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)

P.K. wrote: "As sartorial matters seem to be of interest, perhaps you would like to hear of the epitome of good dress; Sir Frances Chichester, while making the first west to east solo round-the-world trip in a ..."

PK, the story about Sir Frances Chichester is very interesting. I like the sound of him. As we're talking clothes and sailing, I've always been fond of a brand called Henri Lloyd, even though I rarely set foot on a boat. Unfortunately, they went into administration a while back but now have new Scandinavian owners so will hopefully thrive.

Thinking adventurous achievements, I've always been amazed by the pictures of George Mallory and co, who seemed to make their attempts on Everest, and other large mountains, dressed in sports jackets, trousers and hiking boots. Incredible. Human beings are not as hardy as we once were.


message 39: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments P.K. wrote: "You are right Nick. As I explained somewhere else; the pic was taken a coupla years ago at a fund-raising to build a new village hall. I just haven't got round to changing it. What should I wear. How about a Birthday Suit? But I would have to get someone to iron me first..."

Hope the fund raising went well and you have a new village hall by now. Your outfit looks classic and cool, so unless you want to refresh, no need to change a thing :)


message 40: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13757 comments P.K. wrote: "... dresssed in a dinner jacket before opening his can of beans every evening nomatter what the weather was doing ..."

Noblesse oblige


message 41: by Philip (new)

Philip (phenweb) For another example please see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaUEw...

Dinner in the face of an attack.


message 42: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Beau wrote: "P.K. wrote: "As sartorial matters seem to be of interest, perhaps you would like to hear of the epitome of good dress; Sir Frances Chichester, while making the first west to east solo round-the-wor..."

I remember Henri Lloyd, Beau; very cool stuff. I wondered what happened to them. I used to see them in the shops at boat clubs. Quite expensive though - but so is everything at boat clubs.
Yes, Mallory and Scott and that generation were special. They didn't have waterproofs but wool is a better thermal than anything modern, but heavy, especially when wet. But their spirit lives on in people like Fiennes and other explorers. Chichester was in the same mould. He was over sixty when he did that voyage. Before he got into yachting he was an amazing airman. Even built his own plane. He did several astonishing flights, including the first crossing of the Tasman Sea. It was doubtful he would have enough fuel to do it so he fitted the plane with some floats just in case. He was also a pioneer navigator, using dead-reckoning quite ingeniously.
What do we wear for working hard in front of a television?


message 43: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Nik wrote: "P.K. wrote: "You are right Nick. As I explained somewhere else; the pic was taken a coupla years ago at a fund-raising to build a new village hall. I just haven't got round to changing it. What sho..."

Yes, we have a very smart new hall. Some kids burned the old one down. What else is there to do in the country?
Thanks, Nik. Perhaps I'll keep the gravitar then. But shouldn't there be a rule about renewing them every two years or so? I would hate to disappoint anyone who might meet me from Goodreads.


message 44: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Philip wrote: "For another example please see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaUEw...

Dinner in the face of an attack."


Good stuff, Philip. You can't take the child out of the Brits where humour is concerned.


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

P.K. wrote: "Beau wrote: "P.K. wrote: "As sartorial matters seem to be of interest, perhaps you would like to hear of the epitome of good dress; Sir Frances Chichester, while making the first west to east solo ..."

You've got me really interested in Chichester, PK. I've made a mental note to find out more about him. Any book recommendations would be appreciated. I've been meaning to read one about Fiennes for years. Must put that right. He's a distant relation of the actor Fiennes too. They're clearly a remarkable family.

If you haven't already read it, I recommend this book on Mallory:

Into the Silence: The Great War, Mallory and the Conquest of Everest

It's a bit dry in places but very good overall.

What to wear in front of the television or computer? There's only one answer to that...Henri Lloyd's new Port Collection :)


message 46: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Beau wrote: "P.K. wrote: "Beau wrote: "P.K. wrote: "As sartorial matters seem to be of interest, perhaps you would like to hear of the epitome of good dress; Sir Frances Chichester, while making the first west ..."

I think there may have been only one biography of Chichester, surprisingly. I read it many years ago. I think it wa just called, Frances Chichester, by the biographer, Anita Leslie. I don't remember it being very exciting, only interesting about his flighing exploits in the Antipodes. But there are a few books about his navigation practices. He did an autobiography but I haven't read it. Ranulph Fiennes is certainly in the mould of Mallory and Scott and Amundsen; a bit mad and driven by challenging himself - and death. Mallory and Scott came out of The Great War with, I suspect, a feeling of guilt that they survived. How much of their exploits and feats of endurance were driven by the desire to push their luck or a subconscious wish to join the many comrades who didn't survive I don't know which it was. Lawrence of Arabia was of the same ilk. Fiennes was hewn from military rock too. ( Ralph Fiennes is a distant cousin). Perhaps there is a subject for an interesting book in there somewhere? One of our houses at school was named after Mallory so we were aware of him, but I have made a note of your book recommendation. My house was Grenfell. He of North West Passage fame. Pity school children aren't apprised of heroes these days.
We've travelled away from dress codes a bit. Tuck your shirt in, boy!


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

My school had house names too, PK :) Thinking on topic, the dress code was very strict. This included only being allowed to wear black or charcoal grey socks, which was extended to navy for sixth formers. The regular sock inspections gave me one of my favourite school memories. At the beginning of the spring term, one boy’s Christmas present (a pair of musical socks) starting playing. Even the master (teacher) carrying out the sock inspection couldn’t help but laugh :)

On the subject of heroes, I completely agree with you – it’s a great shame that they don’t seem to be celebrated much in modern schools. In fact, I think more attention is paid to finding their faults than their many positive qualities. This is a great shame as I’ve no doubt their achievements would inspire most young minds.


message 48: by Philip (new)

Philip (phenweb) Beau wrote: "My school had house names too, PK :) Thinking on topic, the dress code was very strict. This included only being allowed to wear black or charcoal grey socks, which was extended to navy for sixth f..."

Look at reaction to Baden-Powell at the moment.


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

Philip wrote: "Beau wrote: "My school had house names too, PK :) Thinking on topic, the dress code was very strict. This included only being allowed to wear black or charcoal grey socks, which was extended to nav..."

Absolutely, Philip. Baden Powell might have had some unsavoury views (although they were pretty common at the time) but I think the benefits of the scout movement put his life’s ledger firmly in credit.

I had a similar conversation with somebody last summer regarding Sir Francis Drake. She preferred to remember him as a man who once (?) profited by stealing some slaves from the Spanish. I prefer to remember him for being the second person to circumnavigate the globe and for his pivotal role in defeating The Spanish Armada.

I suppose it all depends on whether you like to see the good or the bad in people because, let’s face it, everyone is a mixture of the two things.


message 50: by P.K. (new)

P.K. Davies | 358 comments Beau wrote: "My school had house names too, PK :) Thinking on topic, the dress code was very strict. This included only being allowed to wear black or charcoal grey socks, which was extended to navy for sixth f..."

Love the story about the socks, do you remember what they played?
School uniform is another controversial topic too these days. Some schools still enforce strict codes but others don't seem to care what they wear. I always felt blazers were inpractical and I rather like the idea of a smart sweater and slacks or skirt (my legs were never up to those). It is also a question of cost too for many families.
I totally agree with you and Philip about this horrible fashion to degrade worthy people because they did some things that are now considered disreputable but were once the norm. History is for learning about ourselves as well as others and none of us start as the perfect package. 'Aye for the gift the giftee gee us tae see ourselves as others see us'


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