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Twin Peaks [SPOILERS AHEAD]

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message 1: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:26PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Obviously, we're watching the Twin Peaks revival. Here's a safe space where you can talk about the new episodes to your heart's content. Spoilers allowed, so beware if you aren't up to date!

OK.

So, I'll start.

What do you think Laura whispered to Cooper that got her in trouble? I was expecting "My father killed me," but that's not what it sounded like, and Coop's reaction didn't seem to indicate this was what he heard.

Do you think doppelganger Dale is the man in charge they were discussing in the Las Vegas scene?

The principal/murderer (Hastings I think?) seems to have been the victim of possession at some point. What's the significance of those murders, and how is evil Dale caught up in it all?

Where's Annie?

What was that thing that appeared in the glass box in New York? Other than fucking terrifying.

Was Jacques Renault tending bar at the Roadhouse just a nod to old school Peakers, or is there something more going on there? He was smothered to death by Leland in the Season 1 finale, after all.

What is Philip Jeffries up to? Is he a doppelganger as well, or was he just driven mad by his exposure to the Black Lodge (like, we always thought anyway, Windham Earl)?

Was that really the Horn brothers' mom's hat Jerry was wearing?

So many questions....


message 2: by Jim (new)

Jim N | 8 comments Thanks for setting this up, Dave and... arrgh! Your questions are making me realize I probably need to watch the episode again.

I had forgotten all about Annie so I have no thoughts on her at this point.

Laura's whisper seemed to shock or horrify Cooper but I couldn't tell what she said. Whatever it was may have been a revelation to him. I'm not sure if what happened to her afterward was a consequence of what she whispered or perhaps she was just required to leave because her role was finished changed. I'm also wondering if she was summoned away.

I didn't get the impression doppelganger Dale was the man referred to in the Vegas scene. I want to say there was another line later in the episode that provided a clue to that but I can't recall the line or the scene. Was that possibly something being discussed when DoppelCoop was in the diner with Ray and Darya? I forget in which order those 2 scenes appeared.

By the way, that scene where DoppelCoop kills Darya was really intense. Lynch doesn't pull any punches.

I'm extremely unclear about the significance of the murders but it does seem like Hastings (or whatever his name is) may have been possessed since he said he only remembered visiting the victim's place in a dream.

I'm wondering if there's particular significance to the nature of the "main" murder, since it seemed gruesomely ritualistic. Could it be part of DoppelCoop's plan to avoid going back to the Black Lodge?

That thing in the glass box was REALLY terrifying. I think it may have been the freaky brain-tree thing Cooper encountered right before leaving the Black Lodge. I don't mean "the Evolution of the Arm" tree (which was my favorite part of the episode) but the freaky, menacing one (or are they the same being?).

Anyway, I'm wondering if Laura, Coop and Freaky Brain-Tree all materialized in that box. We saw Coop appear in it and sequentially, we know that happened before the young lovers started doing their thing. Did Freaky Brain-Tree follow him? The character who was watching the box mentioned that his predecessor once saw something in it and Laura left the Lodge first, then Coop and then the third, terrifying thing materialized in the box so perhaps Laura was what the previous box-watcher saw? Maybe all 3 ended up in that box at some point?

Regarding Renault: I cheated and looked at IMDB. Apparently, the character we saw is named Jean-Michel Renault and only appears in one episode this season so perhaps he was just a visual nod to the fans. Jean was the name of the elder Renault brother, right? Didn't he die in season 2?

Why are there 2 Sheriff Turners?!

My head is spinning.


message 3: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Was the thing in the cell next to Bill Hastings one of the inhabitants of the room above the convenience store? Maybe that's the spirit who's using his body (hence his bizarre exit).
I wondered if Laura told Dale something particularly awful that he did (like liking Annie?). All these years, I always imagined bad Dale using Coop's FBI life to his advantage, but it sounds like he bolted for the underworld immediately.


message 4: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Can't edit: killing Annie, obviously.


message 5: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 22, 2017 12:13PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Great thoughts.

What made me think Laura was being punished was her pained/fearful reaction and it following her whispering in Coop's ear, but you're right that the two may be unrelated. Leland sure seemed upset about it, though. Poor Laura.

I'll have to re-watch to get a better handle on the Vegas stuff. If the Winkies guy from Mulholland Dr. wasn't afraid of Bob-ppelganger, though, who IS he involved with? Some stray Packard or Horne?

YES, the Darya murder scene was intense. Bob-ppelganger is chilling in an entirely different way from Frank Silva's version. I loved how evil Cooper looked as much like Bob as possible, though, down to the hair.

Good point about that being the possessing spirit floating away in the other jail cell, Matt. I overlooked that detail amidst all the rest of it, but it makes sense.

Very interesting theory about the ritualistic killings being part of evil Dale's plan to stay out of the Black Lodge, Jim. Again, that makes a lot of sense.

The second tree in the Lodge was the Arm's doppelganger (he mentioned it a little earlier). We originally saw said doppelganger briefly in the final episode of Season 2, though it looks as though they "evolved" on a similar path. (The "Arm" originally being, of course, the dancing dwarf from the Lodge.) I didn't think that was the Arm or its doppelganger emerging from the glass box just because it had a full body, but maybe its image was combined with that of the Venus statue from the hallway in the Lodge to give it the appearance of having a full body? It was awfully blurry.

Thanks for looking up Jacques. Yes, there was a Jean Renault who died in Season 2 (wasn't he shot by Andy?). Must be another brother besides the also-deceased Jacques and Bernie. Nice nod, anyway. :)

I have a theory about the two Sheriff Trumans but no idea if it'll play out. There was an unresolved (and kinda forgotten) scene in the second season where, after Josie died and Truman went on a big bender, Thomas Eckhardt's personal assistant(?) crawled into bed with him while he was barely conscious. Nothing else ever came of that, but now I'm wondering whether that didn't result in a kid. Could be something else entirely, but that was the first thing that came to mind.

Do we think Cooper killed Annie? She WAS covered with blood in FWWM. Gah! Clues, clues, I need more clues!


message 6: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
So, Jack wired a car with explosives for a hit, then the Dale-ppleganger told Darya he killed him when she was using him as an excuse for her phone call. Who was the hit supposedly for? Bad Dale asked Darya if she heard the target's secretary mention geo-coordinates...they could save her life. I forgot whose secretary she is but I'm guessing it was the Vegas bigwig.


message 7: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Is the possible Jeffries a doppleganger as well? No drawl like Bowie had. I'm guessing Bad Dale's meeting with Briggs was unpleasant and involved an attempt at getting information about not having to return to the Lodge. I imagine this Coop killed Briggs and that's why he's not going to be around.


message 8: by Jim (new)

Jim N | 8 comments Matt, good call on the spirit in the jail cell. I wondered about that (that image was very unsettling) and your theory makes sense.

Dave, Leland definitely seemed upset. I wondered if perhaps Laura was drawn away (by the box?). I definitely got the impression she was leaving against her will. Was that painful exit a metaphor for her rebirth into our world? Didn't she say something about being dead "yet I live"? I may be overthinking it.

Oh! I forgot to mention my ultra-vague theory about the vegas stuff: could vegas guy have been referring to the mysterious man financing the box project? I have no good reason to think that but for some reason, the though keeps sticking with me.

I loved the look of evil Cooper too, although it really confused me at first because I had forgotten all about Cooper's possession by Bob at the end of season 2!

Thanks for the explanation about the tree doppleganger. Whatever emerged from the glass obviously doesn't resemble it but I'm thinking whatever it is might manifest quite differently in our world. It might be unrelated to the tree too since my theory is based on little more than the apparent sequence of events. Plus, when looking at that thing, I was busy being terrified.


message 9: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I forgot whose secretary she is but I'm guessing it was the Vegas bigwig."

That, I remember. It was Hastings' (the principal's) secretary. "She knows everything he knows," Ray said. I guess the geo-coordinates were the "information" bad Dale wanted but didn't "need."

Matt wrote: "Is the possible Jeffries a doppleganger as well? No drawl like Bowie had."

No? I thought he did have a drawl during the phone call. Another thing to look for when I re-watch.

Who WAS that car bomb for? Maybe Hastings' lawyer? Maybe someone in Vegas? Maybe someone else?


message 10: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I think they said who was financing the glass box at some point, and now I think I've conflated what they really said with Philip Jeffries. I'm going to have to take notes when I watch this again tonight.


message 11: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
I'm pretty sure the kids told Tracey it was an "anonymous billionaire" and I don't think any more was mentioned. Tell me if I'm won't, Dave.
Trying to note all of the clues. The giant said 430 and Richard and Linda, in the beginning (2 birds, 1 stone). Later, he said 239(?) Which I think was the apartment number where the Davenport body was.


message 12: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Kid, not kids. The GR mobile site blows. No editing or deleting capabilities.


message 13: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I don't remember 239... the Arm at one point said 25...7 maybe? I don't remember the final number, but I remember it started with 25 because it reminded me of the 25 years.

Definitely taking notes tonight.


message 14: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Notes on Part 1:

The Giant's clues: "Listen to the sounds." (light scratching noises on a gramophone) "It is in our house now. Remember 430 (pronounced four-three-zero). Richard and Linda. Two birds with one stone. You are far away."

Doc Jacoby receives a delivery of several shovels, seems antsy about the delivery man coming into his house.

The glass box is owned by an anonymous billionaire (according to Sam as he explains to Tracy).

The creature that appears in the box is all white, has both arms and legs, is female, and has no eyes.

Ruth Davenport's apartment number is 216.

Will Hank Filmore (the maintenance man who's clearly hiding some shady business from the cops) be important? He calls Harvey to bawl him out, thinking he's sicced the cops on him. "Got it all right here"--can't tell what "it" is. Hank tells Harvey he wanted out of the deal, says it's "mine and Chip's."

The cops find Ruth Davenport's severed head positioned over a male John Doe's body. No trace of the missing body or head.

Bill Hastings, the principal arrested for murdering Ruth, gives as his reason for taking so long to get home on the night of the murder that something was wrong with his assistant Betty's car. Bill's fingerprints were all over the apartment, but as we learn in the next part, he was having an affair with Ruth. The hunk of flesh in his trunk doesn't look good, but the wife (Phyllis) and evil Dale's actions in the next part indicate it may be a frame-up. Is Bill innocent? If he committed the murders, was he possessed at the time?

On to Part 2.


message 15: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 22, 2017 08:05PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Notes on Part 2:

The green spirit who floats away in the jail cell next to Bill Hastings' looks shocked, almost catatonic. Hastings starts to repeat "Oh my God"--is this the full impact of his situation hitting him, or the result of the spirit leaving his body and making him remember? (Reminded me a bit of when Bob left Leland and "pulled the cord.")

In Vegas, Mr. Todd hands Roger a couple stacks of money and says "Tell her she has the job." This leads to the "why do you let him make you do these things" conversation. Who has the job? Maybe Darya? Who's pulling the strings? Maybe Jeffries? If not, what does any of it have to do with anything?

The information evil Dale needs is to come from Hastings' secretary (not named here, but probably Betty?). "She knows what he knows," according to Ray.

What happens to Hawk after he sees the circle of Sycamores? Does he ever make it over to Margaret's for pie and coffee?

Laura: "I am dead, yet I live." I couldn't hear what she whispered to Cooper (and I was wearing headphones) except that the first thing she whispered was the word "Whisper."

The car that Jack wires is a silver Mercedes. Darya mentions in the hotel that it's the secretary's car--guessing evil Dale is getting rid of any loose ends?

According to Ray in his (recorded by evil Dale) phone call with Darya, Jeffries ordered the hit on Cooper. Darya denies knowing who was paying them despite this.

Almost forgot that card Coop shows Darya, some sort of black bug's head drawn over an Ace of Spades. "This is what I want," Coop says.

Jeffries' voice is disguised, but the drawl isn't there like I thought. (Wonder why I thought it was? Expectation?) Either way, Coop doesn't seem to think it's really him, and asks him as much. Coop also doesn't seem to believe Ray is in federal prison for transporting guns across state lines.

Missed it the first time, but that's Jennifer Jason Leigh in the hotel room next to Darya's dead body. Chantal, married (according to Coop) to Hutch.

The Arm: "253 (pronounced two-five-three), time and time again." Are this and 430 the coordinates evil Coop wants?

The white, one-armed lady statue at the end of the hall in the Lodge turns into the Arm's doppelganger as evil Coop passes underneath them (?) on the highway. The real Coop is watching it happen. Then the floor opens up beneath Coop as the Arm's doppelganger screeches, "Non-exist-ent!" and Coop winds up in the glass box (at least for a minute or two). Where is he at the end of the episode?


message 16: by Jim (new)

Jim N | 8 comments I didn't get a chance to watch again last night so I appreciate all the new notes and info, guys!

I almost forgot about that card Coop showed Darya too but it seems significant.

Could the spirit we saw in the jail be the spirit of one of the victims found in Ruth's apartment? It's appearance implied more malevolence to me but I thought I'd throw the idea out there. I'm guessing we'll never get a clear answer on that scene and Lynch will leave it open to interpretation.


message 17: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Jim wrote: "Could the spirit we saw in the jail be the spirit of one of the victims found in Ruth's apartment? It's appearance implied more malevolence to me but I thought I'd throw the idea out there. I'm guessing we'll never get a clear answer on that scene and Lynch will leave it open to interpretation."

I didn't get that sense (as you say, it felt malevolent to me), but it's an interesting thought.

I'm still feeling out what's going to be important later. In the original run, everything was important, but then the primary mystery was a lot more clear--who killed Laura Palmer? At this point, I'm not even certain we're going to see much more of the Hastings mystery, because I think we might have all the information that's going to be important: ritual killing, evil Dale's somehow involved, and Hastings was possibly the victim of possession. I'm particularly curious about this last bit because of evil Dale's interest in what Hastings' secretary knows--why does he care? Is it connected in some way to the Black Lodge? Then again, he seems almost dismissive of the Lodge when he mentions that he's supposed to go back "tomorrow" (which he clearly doesn't, possibly resulting in the real Coop getting the boot into some sort of limbo between worlds). What does have him so interested, and how is it connected to Philip Jeffries?

I'm definitely ready to continue on to Parts 3 and 4. Might do that tonight, as I'll want to re-watch them anyway and can do that with Jen later.


message 18: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
I'm sure TP freaks noticed the bonsai tree next to the couch in Sam's workplace. Is that a nod to Windham Earle's gift to Truman? Could Earle (or something resembling him) have come out of the lodge, acquired a fortune, and obsessed over other access points? Is that NYC location a means of access or merely an exit point?


message 19: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I'm ashamed to say I didn't even notice that. Good catch. That'd be an interesting twist, although I can't say I'm super eager to see Earle in the mix again, especially since his villainous arc was completed when Bob claimed his soul in the Black Lodge.

Could it also be a clue to someone else? The Bonsai was delivered to Sheriff Truman--chances are he's not the "billionaire," if that part of the story is to be believed. It supposedly came from Josie, who was trapped in a wooden knob by that point (although Bob's subsequent appearance leads us to believe her death is somehow connected to the Black Lodge). Several FBI agents had access to the Bonsai, including Gordon Cole, who could possibly be posing as a billionaire using government funds--except, would Gordon really hire college kids to sit and watch his portal to the Lodge, especially if it were dangerous? That sort of open, cheery disregard for the safety of an employee feels a lot more like Earle.

Or, it could be just another Jacques Renault-type Easter Egg for longtime fans. Someone look up that Bonsai's IMDB page and see if it's in any more episodes.


message 20: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:27PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Notes on Part 3:

The Asian woman in the first room Cooper enters has no eyes, just like the creature from the glass box. The metal door Coop gets warned away from (the Asian woman makes slicing noises, much like the creature, indicating this is what will happen to him) bears the number 15. The door is marked 3 when Coop comes back down the ladder and finds himself in a different room. This is ultimately the door through which he exits.

Blue Rose!! Was that God? For that matter, is this all still part of the Lodge? The place with the familiar zigzag floor pattern was described somewhere in the first run as the waiting room.

The time on the woman's watch turns to 2:53, as the Arm said ("2-5-3, time and time again"). This is also the time on evil Dale's car clock when the curtains appear.

"Dougie's" left arm goes dead before he's transported to the Lodge, much like Theresa Banks' did before she died. And that's definitely the owl ring both Theresa and Laura wore. What's the relationship with Mike/Philip Gerard's sentient left arm in the Lodge?

Coop sees Sycamore St. (the circle surrounded by Sycamores), which triggers his first words after leaving the Lodge. His Rain Man act is very similar to the one we see from evil Dale in the final episode of Season 2 ("I need to brush my teeth," etc.).

Themes revisited: gambling, prostitution (One-Eyed Jacks).

Where did Lynch find a young Everly Brothers to play in the Roadhouse at the end? I can't wait to buy this soundtrack.


message 21: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:27PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Notes on Part 4:

We seem to have settled into a more classic Twin Peaks for the past episode and a half, so it's not quite as chock full of clues that I can tell. But holy shit is it hilarious and wonderful and everything I ever could have wanted.

The Silver Mustang Casino: a reference to the white horse from Sara Palmer's visions and the Black Lodge?

Where Bobby has ended up might be the shock of the series so far. I thought his scene when he saw Laura's picture was really moving.

I love the workaround they figured out for Sheriff Truman. My cockamamie theory was way off, but this is simpler and better.

I'd watch a spin-off about Wally Brando's adventures across America.

Albert mentions "our man in Colombia," who ended up dead after Albert passed some information about him along to Philip Jeffries. Was this Garland Briggs?

Kyle MacLachlan deserves an Emmy or Cable Ace Award or whatever for his work on this show. He's got an awful lot of weight to carry in a variety of roles, and he's immaculate.


message 22: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:27PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
So I just re-watched 3 and 4 with Jen, and she cracked a mystery I completely missed the boat on:

The floating head that says "blue rose" in 3 = Major Briggs, and the John Doe body from the Ruth Davenport murder also = Major Briggs.

When she said it, everything clicked into place. The John Doe's fingerprints require military access to view, and we know that evil Coop was almost certainly somehow involved with his death based on what Bobby said about him being the last person to see the Major alive. Plus, the floating, disembodied head, etc.

I know, all the rest of you are smart and probably already figured this out, but I didn't recognize the Major's face at all and whiffed on what the military access meant.

We were also throwing out guesses on who the woman is that Gordon and Albert are going to get to take a look at Cooper. My guess was Diane, because it's hard to think of anyone else who would know Cooper well enough to tell something's off with him (and who isn't dead). Jen speculated that it might be Sara Palmer, though, and for a completely different reason: She'd be better able to identify someone possessed by Bob. "I know where she drinks," Albert said, and the only brief glimpse we've had of Sara was of her holed up in the same house watching nature programs and guzzling liquor.

It's so damn awesome to feel this challenged by a TV show again.


message 23: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (last edited May 26, 2017 08:59AM) (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
(view spoiler)


message 24: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:27PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Good eye on the Great Northern key! Another clue I didn't put together, even though I noticed all the numbers and wondered about their significance. I also didn't see that was John Ennis on the slot machine. I swear, I FEEL like I'm paying attention, but clearly....

I'm wondering who wants to kill Dougie as well. Those seemed to be pro hit men and not just a couple mobbed up idiots sent out to do the boss's dirty work. So maybe Jeffries, but I feel like he would know about 2:53 being his deadline if he knew all the other stuff and would have made that clear to his men. Which means either it wasn't him or he wanted the REAL Cooper dead.

We know from Dougie's wife that they owed someone a lot of money, so there's a possibility that it's got something to do with all that as well. They're in Vegas, right? This has to tie in somehow to the Vegas scene from the first episode somehow, doesn't it?
Is Jeffries the man calling the shots there? Evil Dale? Someone else we haven't seen yet?

Are we going to see Chet Desmond again?


message 25: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (last edited May 26, 2017 09:17AM) (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Dave wrote: "So I just re-watched 3 and 4 with Jen, and she cracked a mystery I completely missed the boat on:

(view spoiler)
I'm going to re-watch 3 & 4...I also watched 4 w/o my spouse, but I had permission, permitted I would watch it again with her (well, duh). So, it looks like we're not getting 5 & 6 until June 4th. I like to imagine I wouldn't have been so greedy with my rations if I'd known that, but who am I kidding?


message 26: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
(view spoiler)


message 27: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited May 28, 2017 08:28PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I loved the Wally Brando bit, from the set-up (Andy's "He has the same birthday as Marlon Brando!" line) to the finish. I think a lot of shows would make it a recurring thing and run it into the ground, but I trust it's going to be a brief, strange aside in the world of Twin Peaks. I had no trouble believing a goofball like that would have come from Andy and Lucy (or maybe the character's verbosity and affectation hint that Dick was the real father all along).

I did sort of have your reaction to the scene with Denise, though. I get what they're trying to do, but Duchovny has always cheesed that role up so much that it feels kinda like the trans version of blackface.


message 28: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Maybe we should revive the podcast for the purposes of TP discussion for the remainder of the summer. :)


message 29: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "Maybe we should revive the podcast for the purposes of TP discussion for the remainder of the summer. :)"

Ha, yeah... an hour of me going "OHHHhhhhh" every week.


message 30: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
"Whoa"


message 31: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Doc Jacoby spray painting shovels gold. What's going on there? Is he creating an art project? Is this meant to make us think "gold digger" (and, if so, to whom would that term apply)?


message 32: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (last edited May 30, 2017 01:11PM) (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Dave wrote: "Doc Jacoby spray painting shovels gold. What's going on there? Is he creating an art project? Is this meant to make us think "gold digger" (and, if so, to whom would that term apply)?"
I figured Doc had retired to a life of amateur prospecting. I imagined in his strange mind, there's some kind of Rule of Attraction alchemy going on, something with gold shovels seeking gold.
Another thing we didn't talk about, but did anyone else notice when Coop's dop is in the diner with Darya, et al, that the only food you can see on his plate is corn in a little dish?


message 33: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)


message 34: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I figured Doc had retired to a life of amateur prospecting. I imagined in his strange mind, there's some kind of Rule of Attraction alchemy going on, something with gold shovels seeking gold."

That makes more sense than "gold digger" in the sense I was thinking. He's even got his prospectin' overalls on. And it would sure explain his reluctance to let people in on what he's up to.

Matt wrote: "Another thing we didn't talk about, but did anyone else notice when Coop's dop is in the diner with Darya, et al, that the only food you can see on his plate is corn in a little dish?"

I missed that, good catch. Not creamed corn, but still a nice nod to the preferred food of evil spirits.

Matt wrote: Interesting ep 4 bit...

Whoa. I noticed it sounding odd, but my brain just corrected it to him saying "REALLY very." Gordon and Albert definitely noticed it.

Is it Sunday yet? :/


message 35: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Dave wrote: "Is it Sunday yet? :/ "

No doubt. I've watched them all twice. Wondering if releasing the first 4 at once was a ploy to get a buzz or something and now it will be one a week, as they air or what...


message 36: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
No doubt. I've watched them all twice. Wondering if releasing the first 4 at once was a ploy to get a buzz or something and now it will be one a week, as they a..."

My theory has been that they wanted to give people a chance to see right away that there's going to be some classic Peaks flavor in the show, as we saw in the latter part of the third episode and the fourth episode. But your guess is as good as mine. Lord knows it wouldn't be Twin Peaks without some inexplicable scheduling by the network.

What's everyone most interested in going into episode 5 (and 6?)? The only thing I feel fairly confident we'll find out the answer to is who Albert and Gordon are going to get to take a look at BobCoop. Diane? Sara Palmer? Someone else? Do you think we'll see any more characters from the first run? Maybe a trip to the RR?


message 37: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Notes on 5:

This is why I love Twin Peaks. Because I'm pretty sure NOBODY guessed what Doc Jacoby was doing with those shovels, but it not only made perfect sense, it was better than anything my feeble imagination could have dreamed.

Mike...is still an asshole.

We meet Becky, Shelly's kid. She already reminds me a lot of Laura, which may not speak well for her future. Is Bobby the father? And if so, is he still in the picture?

The one thing I thought we'd get an answer to didn't even get touched on. Shows what I know.

New mysteries: Who's in Argentina? Anyone? Or was it just that machine (with an obvious connection to BobCoop)?

Confirmed that the decapitated body belongs to the Major. I had a question about the Ernie Hudson Pentagon scene, though: "16 hits [on his fingerprints] in 25 years"--does that mean he's been missing as well? I think the last time we saw him he'd been drugged by Windham Earle and was rescued, unless I'm getting the timeline wrong and his disappearance/reappearance in the aviator cap was after that. Was Bobby's reference last episode to Coop being the last person to talk to his father alive actually a reference to the Cooper we all know? Was the Major formerly just presumed dead because he was missing?

That creep at the Roadhouse...ugh. He either really doesn't give a shit or knows that some very powerful players have his back.

This episode felt super short. The long countdown to 6 begins.


message 38: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (last edited Jun 05, 2017 12:41AM) (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
I had a lot of the same questions, Dave. It's probably worth noting that Buenos Aires came up in Jeffries' backstory. I think it was either only in the script for FWWM or was filmed but cut (on the Missing Pieces disc?), but Jeffries either appeared there or disappeared from a hotel there. I forget which.


message 39: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
So... https://www.google.com/amp/www.indiew...


I never study the credits as closely as I should, I guess. Looks like we've not only just met Richard (of "remember Richard and Linda" fame), but he's a Horne.


message 40: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Just finished 6. A lot in there, from seeing Diane for the first time to the reappearance of Harry Dean Stanton of the New Trout Trailer Park to Hawk's discovery. Not to mention crazy magic tricks, a brutal hit and run, several bloody homicides, and our reminder that Chad the dirty cop is a complete asshole.

So, those were Laura's missing diary pages Hawk found, right?

Two episodes in and Richard Horne is already utterly unredeemable. Even when B. Getty was fucking with him he was totally unsympathetic. He's got a lot of Frank Booth in him.

Evil energy by that stoplight. Always has been.

Was that folder the Vegas guy took out of the safe the one that was given to the hit man later? I've already got the timeline mixed up in my head.


message 41: by Jim (new)

Jim N | 8 comments I'm sorry I fell out of the discussion. I haven't had much TV-watchin' time so I'm several episodes behind at the moment.


message 42: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Dave wrote: "Just finished 6. A lot in there, from seeing Diane for the first time to the reappearance of Harry Dean Stanton of the New Trout Trailer Park to Hawk's discovery. Not to mention crazy magic tricks,..."

I was wondering about Hawk's discovery, too.
I made that same connection between Richard and Frank.
I believe it was the same folder. Seems it was a hit issued by Jeffries to his Vegas man and contracted out to local talent. (I'm assuming that anything linked to Buenos Aires is Jeffries). Also, the more I see, the more I like that Jeffries, in FWWM, points at Coop and says "Now, who do you think this is there?"...it seems to be like he's addled and unstuck in time and pointing out the Doppleganger or the simulacrum (just what ARE we calling Dougie? He seems to be a homunculus or simulacrum of a man).


message 43: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
OK... watching some dude sweep the floor at the Roadhouse for two solid minutes is just too much to ask of an audience, even for Twin Peaks.

Other than that, another winner. Seven episodes in and no idea where any of this is heading or even why. At this point, I'm happy to just sit back and enjoy the ride.


message 44: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I was just thinking about this season's tone in relation to dreams. I think it's intentionally being presented not just with dream logic but dreamlike organization and pacing. There's a story unfolding, but the way it might happen in a dream, with frequent detours and asides that don't always seem to connect.

One of the most dreamlike sequences is the hit and run. It starts with the mother and son playing a simple but nonsensical game--the son runs a few yards, stops, and waits for the mother to run up and grab him. Like so much in dreams, it's more important emotionally than logically; we see a close, happy relationship, intercut with Harry Dean Stanton watching peacefully and a high/angry Richard speeding down the road. The end result is broadcast, but, again, as in a dream, a doom that we're watching from afar and unable to prevent. The boy being hit by the car is over the top to the point...not of absurdity, but almost insanity. As people gather around the tragedy, their reactions are stiff, slow, and pronounced but weirdly unemotional--for instance, the driver who waved the boy across the road merely lowers his face and covers his eyes with one hand, otherwise devoid of sentiment. And then the boy's spirit floats away visibly (at least to Harry Dean, who is our POV for this scene), and the story moves on.

This isn't to say the scene isn't going to have consequences in the larger narrative, but Lynch chooses to linger in the scene far longer than necessary to convey the required information. That dramatic shift in tone and perspective from the rest of the show makes it all the more dreamlike.

These are storytelling techniques Lynch has always used to varying degrees, but just about everything in The Return feels like a single extended dream. Perhaps Cooper's, as hinted at with the One-Armed Man's plea for him to "Wake Up! Wake Up!" If it is Cooper's dream, though, it's being externalized--all of these things are really happening, it's just the fabric of reality that's begun to tear.


message 45: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
I really just think about Ep08 anymore. That's all.


message 46: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (last edited Jul 01, 2017 08:01PM) (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I really just think about Ep08 anymore. That's all."

Yes.

Something I've been thinking about more and more is just how insanely impressive it is that The Return was created in so short a time. I mean, they first announced it, what, a year and a half ago? And Lynch has put together 8 or 9 movies' worth of completely unique material, soup to nuts, that's pretty as close to 100% his vision as you can get.

I don't get mad or annoyed when people say they don't like The Return, I just...I don't understand. I'm so absorbed by Lynch's film-making, and I have been since I saw the first frames of Twin Peaks and Eraserhead. I've seen all his stuff a silly number of times. No director has ever spoken to me more. And what a fresh burst of creativity The Return has been.


message 47: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
I re-watched 8 just now. Some notes and thoughts:

We've now seen the white creature twice--first in 1 after it appeared in the glass box, and now birthing(?) demons into the world(?). In the credits, it's called "Experiment."

Were the Woodsmen removing Bob from Evil Coop's body after he was shot? I'm not sure what that means for him, though he seemed at least to be alive following their repair job.

There seems to be more to Ray than just him working for Jeffries. He's too crafty to just be some hired thug. I wonder whether he's also ex-FBI? He's got something of a lawman about him to me.

In an episode full of shocks, Laura's face appearing in the golden ball the Giant (credited as ??????) made 20 years before her birth was the biggest surprise for me. Was she somehow a creation of the Giant's? For what purpose?

Do we think that tower on the ocean (in what I think of as the "purple" place) is the same one Coop landed in back in 3? It's clearly massive, but I've been wondering whether the one from 8 is the White Lodge and maybe the one Coop was in was the Black Lodge? In 1, he started in that tower (talking with the Giant, with the same record player, filmed in black and white), then went back to the waiting room, then fell through the floor and journeyed through the glass box until landing in either a different part of the same tower or a different tower altogether.

The poem the Woodsman keeps reciting at the end... man, no idea. Is this reality the water and the well? And he's calling the denizens of the other world to "drink full and descend"? The last two lines seem especially mystifying--"the horse is the whites of the eyes" makes me think of the white horse from Sarah Palmer's visions and which we've seen once in The Return in the waiting room of the Black Lodge, so I think that might be the reference? I need Coop back to help decipher some of this stuff!

The wait until the 9th for the next one is going to be brutal....


message 48: by Matt, I am the Great Went. (new)

Matt | 1517 comments Mod
Just read this on a FB group and had to share it:

"Over the past few weeks I've been "Listening to the sounds" with a few of my old sound engineering tricks.
Here's a little something I discovered.
That "sound" that Ben and Beverly hear is D#, or E-flat. A direct translation to my piano keyboard at home measures the note at......
315 hz.
(it could actually fluctuate a little depending on the tuning chosen - I deviate a little from 440hz tuning)
I checked it against this to ensure I wasn't completely mad.. listen to this, then the sound in the episode. Perfect pitch match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWky...
I have a few other things which I'm still playing with. I have found some other stuff but I'm not ready to share quite yet.
Either Lynch/Frost are madmen, or this is a HUUUUGGGEE coincidence (there are a LOT of notes out there !!!!)"

Man, that pitch is the same frequency as Coop's room number?!? Love this stuff. I need a fork to help eat all of this up.


message 49: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Whoa. No way is that a coincidence, as that was the scene where Coop's old room key reappeared (with Ben remembering that Cooper was shot there). And I bet it'll go unexplained, so I'm glad to have seen this.

You have to wonder how many of those details there are that everybody's missing. Much more so than in the original run, The Return feels like the AUDIENCE is Coop trying to unravel all of the mysteries, and Lynch and Frost are going to give us very little help in doing so.


message 50: by Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm (new)

Dave Alluisi | 1047 comments Mod
Anyone know where I can find The Missing Pieces from Fire Walk With Me? I never got the Blu Ray set because I don't have a Blu Ray player, so I've never seen that stuff. I don't mind paying to see it via streaming or whatever.


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