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message 1: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments So far reading this book, two of my group members and I agreed that the book is similar to a book we previously read called "War of Worlds" (or something like that) because of how descriptive both texts are. War of Worlds however, was too descriptive that the book got confusing and boring, but 1984 is just about the right amount of descriptive. 1984 has appeared to be very dystopian with a limited point of view. It is written in the perspective Winston, a man in a country where everything is monitored by the Big Brother. Not much information is known about the country or community Winston lives in, not even Winston knows about the dark, sketchy stuff going on. As Winston learns more about the community, so does the ready, which is one of my favorite parts about the book. Another cool ( cool as in it makes the story more interesting) thing is the world Winston lives in, they have Thought Polices that can read minds, and Big Brother controls the minds of all the citizens and anyone who disagrees with the system or has ideas that Big Brother/the community don't agree with, will be "vaporized".

message 2: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments did I do it right (please say yes)

message 3: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed Zaid (momo420) | 9 comments I think your also supposed to list the people in your book club. and write 2 paragraphs instead of one. Everything else was correct

message 4: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments I did write two but it wouldn't indent

message 5: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments My group: Nicole, Ibrahim, Afrid, Elaine (me)

message 6: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments In the story 1984 the author introduces the world and the society of the story through Winston (main character). This worked out pretty well because we were learning about their society and Winston as person at the same time. We see how Winston is starting to see problems in his society and that he is always under surveillance and at risk of being "vaporized".
This society reminded me of the story of the giver because both of them have their civilians in close watch, brain washed, and dispose of anyone who seems to pose a threat. However in the story the giver there is clear improvements in life, not just some government officials saying how great their country is and how it will continue to improve (Cough cough Donald Trump Cough cough).

message 7: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments I agree with many concepts you touched on in your description. I also enjoy the way the reader gains knowledge as Winston does. As society becomes more and more twisted, every thought of Winston's is expressed to the reader. However, I do feel that Winston's perspective isn't as severely limited as you feel. I believe that Winston's job gives him a wider perspective than the average citizen, giving the reader a broader view on the mind control and corruption going on in the society. Because Winston's career is based solely off of eliminating any weaknesses of the government (such as the government stating incorrect information), Winston knows that the government is manipulative of its citizens in order to make it seem as if they are better off than they are. Elements like "Newspeak", the language the government is trying to fully implement into society by eliminating traditional dialect, further support this idea by showing how "Big Brother's" obsession with control stems even into the capabilities of citizens. By getting rid of current language, the government can make it so future citizens genuinely cannot bash political ideas or control, furthering their control to the fullest extent.

message 8: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments I agree with Elaine.I believe 1984 and War of World share many similar ideas. War of World share a dystopian setting and theme which is also seen within 1984. 1984 is centered around Winston who lives in a country which is controlled by a program of some sort known as Big Brother. Big Brother keeps all citizens in check and everyone must follow orders or there will be consequences. Every citizen must respect the government and their laws or else they will get" vaporized" which is a type of death penalty of some sort. However, Winston finds evidence against the government which brings up many questions and leads me to believe the community is hiding something

Along with War of Worlds, I believe the Giver also shares many similarities to 1984. The 2 texts both are set in a dystopian setting and the citizens have limited power. Within the Giver, the citizens are under constant surveillance and being watched very closely. Similarly, in 1984, the citizens are being watched very closely by the community 24/7

message 9: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments After reading 1984 today, my peers and I were able to learn more about Winston and the controversial community he lives in. Throughout the book so far, we know Big Brother, a powerful program,controls the citizens and their everyday lives. Winston is part of the outer party and decides to start writing a diary which is punishable by death. Telescreens are placed all across the community in order to keep an eye on each and every citizen which creates difficulty for Winston to maintain his diary. However, one day, during the mandatory " Two Minutes Hate", he spots a woman which he starts to have mixed feelings for and this is where the chapter ends. A few questions I have are, Who is this girl?, What effect will she have on the book?, and Will Winston and this girl form a relationship?

Another book that shares many concepts and ideas such as 1984 is The Hunger Games. In 1984,the government has full control on its citizens and their everyday lives similar to dictatorship. In the Hunger Games, we also see a cruel government that gives their citizens limited rights and limited freedom. Also, in both books, the people are under constant surveillance and any type of misbehavior will have severe consequences. Lastly, in both books, we see a relationship forming slowly throughout the book. In the Hunger Game, Peeta and Katniss form a very strong relationship which is also being seen in 1984 between Winston and the strange woman.

message 10: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments From today's reading in class, my group and I have come up with some questions, like who is the girl and what was the purpose of this character in the text. I have inferred that she will help in developing the protagonist because, as my group and I have noticed from the text, the protagonist is somewhat "rebellious" and in the world that the protagonist lives in, the citizens are not allowed to have "desires". From my understanding of the text, the protagonist Winston is confused by the girl because he wants her which could later result in him and the girl secretly being together, (or some other cliche book stuff). Also, I find it quite disappointing when books have "relatable" characters that are relatable only to specific and common people. By this I mean that it is always a guy and a girl falling in love and never two people of the same gender, which I find to not be very inclusive and relatable. However, I'm not mad at this book because I understand that the majority of the world is heterosexual and also this book is old, so it doesn't relate much to 2016-2017

message 11: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments My résponse is not supposed to be combined but I don't know how to seperate the paragraphs.

message 12: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments From the reading from Monday, I believe the girl is supposed to be some kind of a turning point for the character or even symbol for his rebellion because of the way she appears just as he begins to really question the government. The girl is a turning point because she almost pushes Winston over the edge over the issue with his government by making him think he's being watched or she is some sort of spy. To add on, a lot of what we know about the character is that Winston has a desire for her and is almost angered by her "purity". The question with this, however, is if Winston has a desire for the girl herself or what she represents. Since, in my opinion, the girl represents rebellion or freedom, I believe Winston is searching for some way to revolt against his superiors, even if he is oblivious to this himself.

message 13: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments BTW i did not post for Tuesday because i was taking the iready exam in class

message 14: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments From today's reading, I agree with Nicole that the girl appears to be leading up to a turning point in to the story/ Winston. Winston is already doing some "shady things" in his society and is thus cautious. This is seen when the girl follows Winston, he suspects she is spy and even came up with the idea of smashing her head with a glass bottle. One question I still have is why did the girl just fall in love with him without much conversation/interaction. It seemed to come out of the blue and wasn't really expected. One possible idea I had was the narrator, Winston was being ignorant thus causing us to be mislead, but that contradicts his cautious personality so I don't see it as solid reasoning.

message 15: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments My prediction made in the last post has been supported so far from today's reading. I had predicted that the girl's purpose was to add on to the rebellious theme, or way that the protagonist acts. However, the only part that anything happens in this book are the scenes with the girl which took the book over 100 pages to finally get to much of any action. Thus, it is also unclear to me what message or theme the author hopes to convey and teach readers about. The majority of the text has mostly been about a man in his late 30's that wants another woman despite having a wife, which really messed me up.

message 16: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments I agree with my peers and I believe this strange girl will have a big impact on the plot. Winston has been doing many suspicious things in his community and to add to his problems, the girl confesses her love to Winston. This causes Winston to be stuck in a sticky situation as he is not sure if he shares the same feelings. In the past, Winston had hated this girl so much that he even sometimes wished he could smash her skull in a wall! The relationship between this girl and Winston brings up many questions such as how will this girl affect Winston's goals? Will she serve as an obstacle or a partner throughout this book? Will she be a trustworthy "friend"?

message 17: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments Another idea I would like to add on is the girl confesses her love to Winston out of the blue. This leads me to believe this girl isn't trustworthy and may be working with Big Brother. Also, this girl may manipulate Winston to reveal his secrets and what he knows about Big Brother and the community itself. Lastly, I agree with Afrid and I believe the girl falls in love with Winston without an conversation and interaction which also is suspicious

message 18: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments Today's reading has brought up many more ideas and brings up several questions. From what I read today, Winston and Julia's relationship seems to be getting much more stronger than before. Before, Winston had second thoughts on meeting this woman but now he shares a strong bond with this woman. Also, Winston and Julia are also breaking the community's rules and guidelines. For example, Big Brother clearly states that a man and woman must not gain pleasure from the sexual act. However, Winston and the girl break theses rules and perform such acts of being physically attracted to one another. The Anti Sex league states that a man and a woman must practice complete celibacy which Winston and Julia do not practice. Furthermore, Julia causes Winston , a man who followed many of the rules, to become some sort of a rebel. She encourages him to take part in many dangerous activities such as trespassing into her "hideout". This brings up the question of Is Julia trying to manipulate Winston to take part in risky acts for her own advantage? Is she really in love with him? Hopefully, in our next reading, these questions will be answered

message 19: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments When I first started reading this book I thought that the protagonist Winston was kind of innocent and just wanted happiness, because he was against Big Brother which controls everyone and prevents them from doing what they want. However, after reading more up to today's reading, its pretty obvious that Winston is corrupt and malicious. I say this because he is married and has been married, but he doesn't even love his wife and he cheats on her with another woman. He hates his wife and wishes he could get rid of her. In the chapter that we read today he talks to the girl about the day of his wedding, and he says that him and his wife got lost from the ceremonial trial and they found themselves at a cliff. Winston describes that he wishes he could go back in time and push the wife off of the cliff. Also, Winston likes that the girl that he is cheating on his wife is "corrupt" and that she breaks the rules often. Although I agree that Big Brother is a terrible leader , I'm not very fond of the fact that Winston shows such spiteful characteristics at times.

message 20: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments From today's reading, I believe Winston's wife, whom he is separated from, wasn't actually very significant to his life even though he was with her for longer than his current girlfriend. His marriage to her was more for the government and "civic duty" than anything else. One thing I did notice that I thought was interesting is that Julia was the one who said Winston should have pushed his wife of the cliff. Although he didn't say anything, Winston disagreed with her, thinking that something like this alone can't do anything and Julia was clearly still a child if she though this way. I think the author therefore included the character of Winston's wife, at least partially, to differentiate between Winston and Julia, and as a result, show that Julia is much more against the government whereas Winston is partial to it and looks at it through different perspectives. I think Winston understands more why the party is the way it is and understands that there is bliss in ignorance. Julia is fixated on the idea that party members are looking through rose tinted glasses and that the corruption in the government is of the purest of evil.

message 21: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments From today's reading, I actually think that Winston's wife isn't as meaningful to the story as his current girlfriend Julia. His wife's purpose was more so for political reasons and his "civic duties" than anything else. One thing I did notice in the text is how Julia thought that Winston should have killed his wife when he had the chance, whereas Winston thought to himself that doing so would have accomplished nothing. Therefore, I think the author included the character of Winston's wife to differentiate between Winston and Julia, and show Julia's almost childish characteristics. Julia is fixated on the idea that party members are blind and looking through rose tinted glasses, whereas Winston understands the bliss in ignorance and knows that things are convenient when set in stone. Although both characters are majorly against the party, Winston can see why things are the way they are.

message 22: by Afrid (last edited Feb 16, 2017 04:13PM) (new)

Afrid | 7 comments From today's reading I started to notice that the society in the book and the society in North Korea have several similarities. One example is how their citizens are all brainwashed into believing their government without fault and having an all mighty leader ("Big Brother- Kim Jong-un). Another example is how the government constantly tells their country that their at war. Lastly both of their society control the flow of information through the news/media and have their citizens under constant surveillance.

message 23: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments Another thing from I realized from today's reading was that Winston has a broad aspect and is seriously considering what he can do to rebel and change their society. I realized this when he was arguing with Julia about gathering evidence on current day events for the next generation of citizens. Julia was saying that it was too risky and that it didn't befit them at all, but Winston wanted to do it because he knew from personal experience that it was near impossible to tell what happened in their society's history from most documents and even their own memory. This also reminded me of Winston's journal and made me curious as to what exactly happened to it and if he is continuing to write in it.

message 24: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments Today in our book group discussion, we talked about how our book could be connected to the real world today. My group and I agreed that the book relates to how people blindly follow leaders. In the book Big Brother's followers/citizens obey his orders and they have no opinion of their own, whatever the government says, goes. Similarly, I've noticed that in real life, (not always, but most) people who have been democratic in the past always support the democratic candidates without even doing much research.

message 25: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments I also noticed, based on something that Nicole pointed out while we were reading, that Julia, the girl that is "rebellious" is ignorant, and blindly hates on the government. For example, in the book Julia rants about the government and what she thinks the government is doing, but when Winston tries to explain what is actually happening and he tries to distinguish facts, Julia basically tunes him out and she won't listen. This also made me think about how Julia wants to take pride in the fact that she's a "rebel" and she's some "special little snowflake" when really she just makes things up to seem corrupt, which is what draws in Winston, Winston likes that Julia is different. I think that the purpose of the author adding Julia to this book is to point out to readers how people will sell themselves as something to seem "better" or wittier, because thats basically what Julia seems to be trying to do.

message 26: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments I agree with Afrid. The society in which Winston and Julia live in is controlled by a central power which in this case is Big Brother. Big Brother brainwashes their citizens in order to make them believe false information. Julia, however, does not fall for Big Brother's scheme. Julia is a rebel as she breaks most of the rules such as being sexually attracted to one another. This rebel behavior is now starting to rub off on Winston. At the start of the book, Winston was a normal man who stuck to his job and nothing else. However , when Julia entered his life, he starts to question his life, family, and friends. Furthermore, Julia also starts to convince Winston to do dark things such as killing his own wife! This leads me to believe Julia may be trying to control Winston's life forever and brainwash him, just like Big Brother does to its citizens

message 27: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments Adding on to what everyone said, I'm beginning to question Julia's motives and her past as well. We can understand why Winston is in love with Julia, she's young, beautiful, simple-minded, and agrees with everything Winston believes. However, Julia doesn't get much out of the arrangement. Winston is old and boring for someone like Julia, he blends in with every other part member, and it's not like he can give her anything with his middle class lifestyle. I bring this up because if Winston can't do anything for Julia, he can't support her or help her, then Julia has to have some sort of ulterior motive. Why did she choose Winston of all people? We know from previous conversations in the book that Julia has been in secret love affairs before, but we don't know how long ago or with whom. As a result, I believe Julia is hiding something from Winston and this might be the reason why she's so distant when it comes to the conversation that matter, like ones about the government and what they originally "bonded" over.

message 28: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments So far in this book we are up to the part where Winston and Julia are joining a "secret society/group", and I don't know what to think. What exactly is this group going to accomplish? in their discussion with who I assume is the group leader, he just says that they have to be able to kill children and stuff, but how is that helping them do anything about The Big Brothers. A thought that I had is that maybe they're trying to threaten The BigBrothers or show them that they won't stand for this any longer. Something that Nicole brought up during discussion in class is that the citizens have long believed that they were at war with Eurasia, but when someone of importance said that the war was instead with Eastasia they immediately agreed without questioning (or it could be the other way around, I always confuse who the war is actually with). But I think that the author includes that part of the story to show how brain washed and conformed the citizens are since they obey everything and don't dare question higher powers/voices.

message 29: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments Adding on to Elaine, something I wonder about the text is if the party members are really as brainwashed as we are lead on to believe. It's possible that the party members aren't ignorant of the government's lies, but are simply afraid to say anything, in dear of being killed. If anything, they actually might be proving their intelligence by keeping quiet, it would be nonsensical to say something because they would just be vanished. This leads me to think that by joining O'Brien and the Brotherhood, Winston is being foolish for thinking he's contributing to a bigger cause. This is further supported by the book given to Winston that literally contradicts the group's beliefs. In the book, a main principle taught by the society is the idea that "war is peace". Essentially, by constantly being in war, each world power is driven by the goal that the other two are inferior and accept their poor living standards because their resources are being funneled into "war grounds". This means that as war goes on party members don't move forward or fight the government because they think that life is bad because of a war that needs to be fought instead of the truth, which is that the government is simply fueled by greed. Therefore, the takedown that the Brotherhood is trying to attempt will never work because it will look as if they're against their own people's soldiers and and their disloyalty is for a genuine reason.

message 30: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments To add on to both ideas, I believe that by joining this social group, Juila and Winston are put in a sticky situation. This is because the group is not entirely trustworthy and legit but it is impossible to leave this group( i think). If the group turns out to betray its members or possibly fight for a totally different cause, this leaves Winston and Julia in a bad situation. Furthermore, the ideas brought up in the handbook are many ideas that WInston disagrees, as stated by Nicole. Many statements and quotes within the book suggest that war is the key to "peace" but recent events have contradicted. The citizens were brainwashed to believe that their country is now at war with a completely different country, even though this war has been going on for many years. War sparks controversy , most definitely not peace

message 31: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments To answer Elaine's question of What exactly is this group going to accomplish and why they asked about killing kids, was for O'Brien to figure out what lengths they would go to for the brotherhood and how reliable they are. To add on to Nicole, the book did not seem like it was advocating for the idea of "war is peace",but simply explaining why the government is for constant war. The book says that the government was trying to occupy their citizens mind with something, to distract them from revolting or realize that the government doesn't have a purpose. The book also says that they try to avoid surplus amounts of food and end up estimating lower then the amount needed for society. Something I noticed within the story is that many ideas are repeated several times, and a lot of these ideas are contradict themselves like the one above(war is peace)

message 32: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments In today's reading Winston and Julia were caught because the man that they joined forces with was actually a thought police that tricked them. This is an example of how you never know who you can trust because Julia and Winston thought that they could stop Big Brother and their plans, however they were deceived and were led into a trap. We didn't get to read much past that part so I don't know what exactly is going to happen to Winston and Julia, but I think that they are going to torture them to get information, since thats been done before and also the book still has a lot of pages left. Something that stood out to me today while reading was the description of the old woman because it described how the woman is like a "fruit" with a "fertile belly" and that she worked hard for her children and then for her grandchildren. And while reading that part I subconsciously was reminded of my grandma and my mom. Although I don't really understand why the author would make readers think about their mom, but thinking about it now, I think the author could possibly be symbolizing that like humans, nations, or the nation's values die and leave behind their children in hopes of continuing the way of life that they started.

message 33: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments Throughout today's reading, the book starts to pick up its pace. Many of long awaited events have taken place. Winston and Julia's plan has taken place and now both have been taken by the Thought Police. The Thought police starve Winston and treat him like an animal. In the cell, he meets a few different people. Some are dangerous while others are people Winston has met before such as Parsons. Furthermore, in the prison , Winston also has second thoughts on completing his plan because of the fact, he may die in vain with no effect on his community. He wants to leave a mark and make a change but the Thought Police may make this diffciult

message 34: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments Adding on to Ibrahim, I believe that each person in the jail is representative of a certain part of Winston and his life. For example, the woman who comes in reminds him of his childhood because she looks similar to his mom and makes him even think it might be her. To add on, Parsons is another example because he reminds Winston of the times he too was innocent and ignorant. I think the author put this as a a symbol of Winston's life flashing through his eyes as he awaits his impending doom and torture. He looks through his past life as a final goodbye to the person he once was.

message 35: by Afrid (new)

Afrid | 7 comments Something I was curious about was that in the text was that there was this room called 314 or something and when a prisoner said he was being sent there he immediately started to beg for forgiveness/mercy. He even went as far as to ask for other punishments such as drowning,hanging and even seeing everyone he cares about to be slaughtered in front of him instead. That got me wondering about what was in that room and how bad could it be compared to the cruelty they are already facing. They are already being beat everyday, staying near starvation, and being in a room overwhelmed with people. So whats behind that door? and is foreshadowing where Winston might go?

message 36: by Elaine (new)

Elaine Diaz | 16 comments We read very few pages today, so we only got to read one scene in which someone was being tortured. If I remember correctly, Winston is already being tortured in prison. I think that the author's purpose for including the torture scenes is to demonstrate the lengths that the groups will take to punish people. This part in the book also reminds me of a song that has similar themes to it. The songs basically discusses how its shocking that someone could be so cruel to another person, and this is shown in the text because of the torture prisoners go through. I also think that the author let Julia and Winston get caught by a "thought police" so that he could emphasize that the Big Brother people should be taken seriously, and to show reader that even if you think you're safe, you might not be.

message 37: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments I also read very little today, but from what I read I think that Big Brother's "secret" to torture is breaking down people's mentality to the point they would rather the worst things imaginable would happen to the people the love then have to spend any more time in such a place. What I don't understand from the test is why the government keeps their torture so secret. Although I understand they need to keep up a kind front so people feel supported and cared for, I think it would be a tactile move to show people thinking about rebelling that this is the future to come. I also think the author put in the starving prisoner to foreshadow Winston's future and some things we might see in the future. Finally, when reading this part of the book I related the torture Winston is going through sort of to torture in Guantanamo Bay because of the way people there are tortured to the point they have nothing left in them to fight and death would be better than life.

message 38: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Burek | 11 comments Nicole wrote: "I also read very little today, but from what I read I think that Big Brother's "secret" to torture is breaking down people's mentality to the point they would rather the worst things imaginable wou..."


message 39: by Ibrahim (new)

Ibrahim Ali | 12 comments Throughout today's reading, we see a major shift in the story. The story is now starting to become much more gruesome. For example, Winston faces harsh conditions within the prison such as being electrocuted and having parts of his body broken. He is being brainwashed to believe false things. An example being when O'Brien tries to persuade Winston that he is holding 5 fingers when in reality he is holding 4. Winston is repeatedly electrocuted when he states he is holding 4 fingers so he cannot take the pain anymore and decides to abide to O'Brien's rules. This symbolizes many of the citizens in Oceania because they may know that a specific idea is wrong but they must agree to it in order to survive just like Winston in this case.

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