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The Lords of Lecture

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message 1: by Bryant (new)

Bryant | 11 comments So today we analyzed the concept of how there could be two sides to human nature, one side of the coin where the true image of human life is that people are naturally bad and have an inclination to do what is wrong or have an icorrect approach, such as the youngest of a group of kids that were stranded in an island without any supervision, or a boy named Jack Merridew who was a hunter and had a very known reputation for having bloodlust and wanting to kill in order to survive, in order for all kids to survive and move on with life. And there isnthe other side of the coin, where Ralph, the leader of the little "Kid Tribe", believes that there must be order, there must be, control, because all of these kids are not full developed and so are not wise and do not have enough experience to survive and move on with life, and so he is knowledgeable ofnthe flaws ofnthe group of kids and even he himself, hence why he keeps mentioning that they need to be rescued. Now, are people naturally bad or naturally good? Does soiety turn people to a dark path or do people need a society in which they can be set straight? What is your opinion?

message 2: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments Society does indeed turn people over to the dark path. This is because everyone is born neutral not knowing anything. But as us humans grow we have to adapt to the community we live in because thats how everything works. If you grow up in a bad community, there are going to be influences that make the person unfortunately bad.

message 3: by Paola (new)

Paola Alvarado | 9 comments Today in ELA we discussed the main points in the book "The lord of the Flies" by William Golding (i think that's the author). Anyways the story is mainly about some boys that are stranded in an island, without any adults. The kids are happy at first but then start to worry if they'll ever be rescued. The boys have many problems when it comes to surviving in the island. One way to think about is using Hobbes and Rousseau perspective on the state of nature. I believe the author mainly focuses on using Hobbes perspective because he shows us that the kids without society start losing their minds. The children start killing and do things that they wouldn't normally do back in society. The author also shows us how the kids just do whatever they feel like doing but they don't realize how ridiculous they seem and they don't give much importance to the consequences to their actions. These are some main points we discussed in ELA today.

message 4: by Jaspreet Johal (new)

Jaspreet Johal | 11 comments I just wanted to say that this book, is largely based on symbolism and references. To demonstrate, when the character, Jack Merridew, put Piggy down verbally through oppression, he stated that he is an English and not a savage while creating a new law of speaking when they have the conch. This is the main reason for oppressing Piggy, Piggy had the conch but he was immediately silenced for questioning Jack and Ralph's authority. This I believe, is a reference to the American Revolution, after all it was written after WWI so war must have been on the author's mind. It seems similar to British looking down on Americans because America wanted to go against them and America questioned the British Empire's authority so there might be a correlation here. Moreover, the way that pigs were portrayed in this book was interesting. To demonstrate, when Ralph was hunting a pig down, its scurrying was portrayed as seductive. The vulnerability of the pig was tempting to Ralph which shows the animal side of humans coming out which was very interesting. This may be a foreshadow to Piggy's death because that was a pig that Ralph wanted to badly slaughtered, and what a coincidence! A character is nicknamed Piggy. It is Also interesting that The book itself is named "The Lord of the Flies", Flies are easily associated with disgust and death so I am expecting that death is going to be around the corner for every chapter in the book.

message 5: by Bryant (new)

Bryant | 11 comments This is an excellent point that you portrayed, and the references were very clever into finding insight towards what is the. backstory behind the plot of Lord of the Flies, however, I do not believe that Piggy will die since he is a major plot device and an essential contribution to the story, and without him, the whole Kid Tribe would turn into turmoil and to chaos, and I can notice that even though Piggy is not shown as much as Simon, Ralph, and Jack, I can see how gradually, the author is trying to point out grain by grain that Piggy is actually the biggest weapon and the biggest asset for all the kids to survive the island and to strive towards achieving the goal of creating a better society. On the other hand, I definitely agree with you about the symbolism shown, because there is so much even though it can be hidden deeply in the pages. For example, I notice that the characters represent different personalities and different mindsets and different aspects in the contiounce of one's self, molded by the island and the benefits or obstacles that could appear. Piggy represents sanity and cleverness and intelligence and self control which is of much benefit when contributing to the concept of human nature. Then there is Jack who is arrogant, high tempered, cocky, wild, vicious, and aggressive, which could get the job done for survival situations but not for survival terms. Then there is the leader, Ralph, who represents Confidence, Faith, Hope, if you pay close attention, Compassion, Control, and is very strategic and has the strength of a leader, which will be very important to keep the Kid Tribe in check and ensure that society is in balance. But, he is also conflicted, unsure, inexperienced, and lacks patience and tenderness and humility, keys to survival and progress, and it all involves him being the human side of one's self. With all of this analyzed, what does all of this mean? What is the author trying to day? How does this contribute to the theme of the story

message 6: by Jaspreet Johal (new)

Jaspreet Johal | 11 comments I respect your opinion but I differ from your view. I believe Piggy dies because he is important to the development of the story. Since we know that this book is going to involve death, Piggy may be the victim. In order to proceed with the story, and to create more turmoil, Piggy's death is essential. You may believe that he is extremely important and intelligent, and I do as well agree up to this point. Since he is so important and is their last hope to reach their salvation ( I think I used the word correctly), he has to die. This book is inspired by pessimism so in order for the children's life to become worse, they need to lose their path to survival and Piggy is guiding it. If Piggy is taken out of this scenario, than the children have to rely on themselves and they would realize that their lives are in jeopardy. Moreover, once this comes to be they would become one with their wildness and would begin to maul each other eventually leading to their down fall. Maybe a few would survive and a new leader would form, but who knows! I am so anxious to find out what actually happens to Piggy!

message 7: by Dennisse (new)

Dennisse Pumayugra | 7 comments the past few days we have been reading the book lord of the flies, and on our second day reading this book my book club and I discussed with Mr.Prosen about the state of nature, we talked about the authors Hobbes and Rousseau and how Hobbes believes that people are naturally born bad, society must make them good and Rousseau believes that people are naturally good society is what makes them evil, in this case I would have to agree with the author Rousseau because you are born good, you don't know anything about life and as you grow society is what makes you a good or bad person, what you see and what you've learned is what makes you who you are, the boys are basically stranded in an island but no one knows were they are so as the story proceeds they start to go caucus and that where they been naturally good and how society makes them evil comes in, they start killing and doing stuff that they aren't supposed to do since hey don't have any adult supervision so that's how society eventually makes them bad but not evil well kinda okay bye now

message 8: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments I feel like Piggy is going to be the first to die. First off, he has asthma. Second he is very unfit and apparently so overweight he is known as Piggy. Another reason why he may die first is because he is somehow very irritating to Ralph. When ever Ralph says something, he is proven wrong by Piggy. Whenever Piggy has the conch, he makes sure the rules apply to him knowing that no one wants to hear him.

message 9: by Kevin (new)

Kevin | 3 comments This book, Lord of the Flies, was very interesting to say the least. The plot and characters are very well developed. But I won't get much into that. What I really wanted to talk about was why were the boys out on that island. Let's begin. On the blurb on the back, it says "At the dawn of the next world war" so this implies that this is the beginning of the second world war. In WWII, many young children (in Great Britain) were moved to the country to protect them from the bombings in London. But the protagonists were on a plane. And why were they in the southern hemisphere? It probably would've taken more time and effort to move them to the southern hemisphere opposed to moving them out into the country. In the Lord of the Flies, they mentioned something about an atomic bomb. So perhaps the story is actually a group of school children that escaped onto a plane and escaped the atomic bomb, implying that this is actually a dystopian text...?

message 10: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments The book "Lord of the Flies" is an amazing book. Very interesting and intriguing. While my group was discussing, Bryant brought up a point that Simon is going to die first.

I would like to respectfully disagree with that. In my opinion, if anyone were to die first in this book, it would be Ralph. This is because Ralph is a horrible leader. A leader that cares only about being saved and that his dad will save them all. However, this made Jack very angry because Ralph always puts Jack down. Ralph wants Jack to be someone he is not. He does not want Jack to hunt or kill. Just to listen to him. This made Jack very angry and this anger is growing stronger as we progress through the book.

However, there are other possible targets such as Piggy which everyone hates due to how smart he is and how he proves Ralph wrong all the time.

Sorry But this was actually my original post. Bryant and I created chats 5 seconds apart and so we just went along with Bryants chat

message 11: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments Did you guys read at all today during ELA. If so can you tell me please where you guys stopped so I can catch up? Thanks in advance

message 12: by Paola (new)

Paola Alvarado | 9 comments In the book we today discussed about symbolism in the characters personalities. Ralph i feel likes to take credit for Piggy's actions and mostly focuses on being saved and getting out of the island ASAP. Jack is definitely all about survival and adventure, he likes to make others feel lower than him and tries to be the best at everything. Piggy i feel is very wise and has a very emotional past that has affected the way he thinks and the way he acts. Piggy is a very important character because he is obviously the best person you can put as the chief of the children. I knew that Piggy would be the first one to die because he doesn't really like to get pushed around because of his past. Ralph has taken credit over piggy many times. For example the time that they found the conch Ralph didn't know how to use it , if it weren't for Piggy they wouldn't have had more boys coming to join them. Jack for some reason wants to be the best at everything, i feel that jack is like this because of the pressure he has been put on or the desire to impress somebody or everybody. These are some characters that give a very strong vibe to the book.

message 13: by Bryant (new)

Bryant | 11 comments There is a certain interaction between two characters that reveal the plot of the story, that show the essence of the backstory behind the goal of this story, that show the different sides of our contiounce and the different personalities and aspects of the human nature. It shows how society must be run and how society must depend on the interactions of all to one. It shows the author's hidden technique and how the author portrays the main theme of the story. Which is the interaction I am mentioning? Who are the two people I am referring to? I will leave that to you guys to find out.

message 14: by Dennisse (new)

Dennisse Pumayugra | 7 comments Yesterday we were discussing about symbolism. And how piggy who was most worthy to be the leaders Was the first to die. WHne he was the one that controlled and helped his team. Even though they didn't like each other

message 15: by Jaspreet Johal (new)

Jaspreet Johal | 11 comments In our book it seems to be that every character is slowly losing their sanity. To demonstrate, everyone is putting their wants in front of one another even though in the beginning the characters were working as a group. Not only this, but as seen before, Ralph's wild side is beginning to show. But you may be wondering that he does not represent the group, but we must remember that he is the group leader. Since he is the group leader, he symbolically is everyone's opinions and thoughts in the group except for the "inferior" Piggy (it is in his nickname [notice how I did not say "name"]). Ralph's wild side is also shown through Jack's actions when he and his group slaughtered the pig and were chanting very vulgar things about slitting a beasts throat and letting her blood pour. This obscene action foreshadows the end of Piggy, but it also radiates the aura of a sacrifice. The book holds many deep pessimistic thoughts and ideas that may led to the end of the lost children and secrets.

message 16: by Paola (new)

Paola Alvarado | 9 comments Honestly the children have lost their minds. Without having society putting them in place. They are now chasing this so called "beast" THEY ARE CRAZY. If you don't know who or what this "beast" is how can someone go looking for it, not only putting their own life in danger but the other children's life's as well. The reason i think they want to look for this "beast" is because they want to kill it and then maybe eat it. The children seem to pick a fight with anyone and resort to violence, it's at the point where they make chants about killing animals or other creatures. When they come across a conflict they will try their best to prove that they are right and if they are wrong they will get upset with everyone. They can't accept words or resolving problems without fighting. I am waiting for a change in this book am waiting for the boys to realize what they have turned to or to actually notice that they are all human and they no matter what are still isolated all alone in an island!!

message 17: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments I have finished the book already and I must say, it got very crazy. I will try not to spoil too much. So basically we know that there is a negative relationship between Ralph and Jack. Ralph focuses on shelter and getting rescued. Jack only focuses on food. All of these are essential in order to survive. Especially food. Later on in the book, the tribe splits into two. One group which Ralph is leading and another that Ralph is leading. This situation could have been avoided. As a leader Ralph should have incorporated everyones idea. It was not smart not accepting Jack and his idea of catching food. Because now there are two groups who once had a goal of being saved. Now their goal is to see which group is better. This book has literally been about a group of boys stranded on an isolated island fighting each other. Not a bad book however. And a little clue to who dies at the end. Bryant was right on who was going to die. Clue number two: This person is very selfish and has a strong hatred against Ralph. Well thats about it for today. See you all tomorrow!

message 18: by Bryant (new)

Bryant | 11 comments I woke up today, got ready, and now I am here at school. Now that I am here with peace and quiet many questions come into my mind. For example, I wonder how the end of the story explains the ideal of human nature? Or does the end of the story represent something completely new? Also, 2 people died in this book, and not just any 2 people, but they were people essential to the plot. So why do they end up a tragedy? Does this mean that our sensible, wise, reasonable side of thinking will eventually be overthrown by our imperfect human side? And Ralph was left sobbing while entering a rescue ship, why? What does this mean? Why is the irony so groundbreaking for the aftermath? And finally, it has never been truly revealed what is Jack Merridew's main goal in the island and we all know he is smart despite his aggressiveness, so what is he planning? And one last thing, was the plane crash an accident, or was a specific character expecting or wanting something like this to happen?

message 19: by Amzad (new)

Amzad Ali | 11 comments I must say these are some very interesting questions. I unfortunately do not have answers to all of them but I might for one or two of them. Why did two people die. How did we end up in this tradegy. This is why, The group split in two. If the group stayed as one, the chances of someone dying would be low. But the group just divided putting them in separate places. And when the fire took over the island two people unfortunately couldn't make it

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