Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion

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The Panopticon (People of Who) > With Capaldi leaving, Speculation starts:

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message 2: by Jack (new)

Jack Bowden | 29 comments Richard Ayoade would be such a great pick, I'm pretty sure he doesn't watch Doctor Who though

I feel like Ben Whishaw would just be a second Eleventh Doctor without Matt Smith's charm


message 3: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments too soon for me to think about this as i'm still in the mourning process


message 4: by Jadetyger (new)

Jadetyger Sevea | 70 comments I'm really 'meh' on Ben Wishaw. He didn't impress me as Q in the Bond franchise (an unpopular opinion, but there it is). I'm one of those who would like to see the Doctor stay male, but if it /has/ to be a woman, I vote for Helen Mirren. It's a bit of pie in the sky casting.

My first pick for the-Doctor-as-a-woman always goes to Judi Dench, though. Impossible now, as she's (semi?) retired. Those are the only two actresses who I think could carry the part.


message 5: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Jadetyger wrote: "My first pick for the-Doctor-as-a-woman always goes to Judi Dench, though. Impossible now, as she's (semi?) retired. Those are the only two actresses who I think could carry the part."

For me it isn't so much who could pull off playing the part as the production actually writing the Doctor as the Doctor and NOT for a woman playing the Doctor. I want consistency in the character, something they totally did not do with Missy.


message 6: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "Jadetyger wrote: "My first pick for the-Doctor-as-a-woman always goes to Judi Dench, though. Impossible now, as she's (semi?) retired. Those are the only two actresses who I think could carry the p..."

Bingo!
It's not the actress that is the most important part, but will they write the lady doctor as the LADY doctor, or as the Doctor?
Missy was testing the waters for that idea and moffat failed as he couldn't stop constantly announcing 'Hey look!!! I'm a girl!!!"


CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian (klandersen) | 178 comments Lori S. wrote: "or me it isn't so much who could pull off playing the part as the production actually writing the Doctor as the Doctor and NOT for a woman playing the Doctor. I want consistency in the character, something they totally did not do with Missy. "

Exactly. It has to be done with the right writing of the Doctor being written as The Doctor for the character traits not the gender/sex.

I am another fan who prefers that the Doctor stays male. I used to be totally against the idea of the Doctor being a woman, but now I could see it happening. They shouldn't cast a woman just for the sake of casting a woman. I hate that way of thinking. Changes should make some kind of sense, not change just to change things.

Another female actor mentioned (probably only by fans since she has a Chris Chibnall connection) is Olivia Colman (Broadchurch and Doctor Who "The Eleventh Hour")


message 8: by Jadetyger (new)

Jadetyger Sevea | 70 comments Oh, I definitely agree with you both. The Doctor needs to be the Doctor, period. Honestly, I don't think the current crop of writers could avoid falling into the 'girl' trap. As Travis said, Moffat failed with Missy. I don't trust the writers not to make a female Doctor into a bunch of stereotypes, rather than the character just being the Doctor.

Which is why I think the Doctor should remain male, at least for now.


message 9: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Can't remember where I saw her, probably a steampunk event, but there was a young woman dressed in grey trousers, waistcoat vest and a black t-shirt and I thought 'add a cool coat a sonic screwdriver and she could be the Doctor.

Having seen her and getting that visual, I then knew I'd be okay with a lady Doctor, it's just the writers that worry me.
You could focus on him being a her in the first episode and then occasionally with a historical, but otherwise you have to write her like you would Matt Smith, Patrick Troughton or Colin Baker or it just falls apart.
Don't know enough about Chibnal to know if her could pull it off, but I know Moffat or Davies couldn't do it.


CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian (klandersen) | 178 comments Travis wrote: "...You could focus on him being a her in the first episode and then occasionally with a historical, but otherwise you have to write her like you would Matt Smith, Patrick Troughton or Colin Baker or it just falls apart.
Don't know enough about Chibnal to know if her could pull it off, but I know Moffat or Davies couldn't do it.
"


I agree. Obviously the first episode she would have to adjust to being a woman and for the first few episodes be awkward. The actress would have to be convincing of looking like she were really a man pretending to be a woman at first.

I have imagined what the first few lines of dialogue could be for the Male-to-Female Regeneration... We see the now standard fiery transformation of regeneration energy. The new Doctor breaths in deeply quickly exhales. She has a confused look on her face. She feels her face not too shocked it is smoother than usual. She strokes her hair tugs a little at the long locks (depending on the actress maybe curly?) Her hands go back to her face she pulls them down her face and then over her breasts. He facial expression turns to shock she speaks for the first time since her transformation. "Oh Dear Rassilon" (a facial tick at hearing the voice) Her hands feel her chest (softly squeezing) are those breasts (spoken softly and slowly) "Breasts? I've got breasts? I've got BREASTS? OH GREAT RASSILION I've GOT BREASTS, granted they are perky and nicely firm, a little too big perhaps? BUT BREASTS? I'M A WOMAN! I've never been a woman before. I don't know how to be a woman, sure I've had to wear the occasional dress and heels to fit in with the Queens of Transvestia, and Transilvania. That was just well it was just, but THIS?" (perhaps I'll try to work on this later)


message 11: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian wrote: "I agree. Obviously the first episode she would have to adjust to being a woman and for the first few episodes be awkward. The actress would have to be convincing of looking like she were really a man pretending to be a woman at first."

Joanna Lumley: Curse of the Fatal Death


message 12: by Robert (new)

Robert Wright (rhwright) | 74 comments Patterson Joseph. Not familiar enough with British actresses that aren't super high profile and thus unlikely to take such a role.


message 13: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian wrote: "Travis wrote: "...You could focus on him being a her in the first episode and then occasionally with a historical, but otherwise you have to write her like you would Matt Smith, Patrick Troughton o..."

Somebody has to say it:

"I have boobs now. Boobs are cool"


message 14: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Robert wrote: "Patterson Joseph. Not familiar enough with British actresses that aren't super high profile and thus unlikely to take such a role."

Paterson Joesph's character in 'Neverwhere' to me is his audition for Doctor Who.


message 15: by Lori S. (last edited Feb 03, 2017 07:32AM) (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "Somebody has to say it:

No they don't.

"I have boobs now. Boobs are cool"

No, they aren't. And I do have the ugly things.


message 16: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: "Somebody has to say it:

No they don't.

"I have boobs now. Boobs are cool"

No, they aren't. And I do have the ugly things."


Well, for you, rather then meander into a boob debate, here's my 'b option' line:

"Oh lord, and I was worried about my ears...?!


message 17: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "Well, for you, rather then meander into a boob debate, here's my 'b option' line:

"Oh lord, and I was worried about my ears...?!"

Well, for you, rather then meander into..."


Or, they could just accept the change and move on without a silly, annoying, quip about ears, teeth, hair, kidneys, or, heaven forbid, noses or some other body part.


message 18: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: "Well, for you, rather then meander into a boob debate, here's my 'b option' line:

"Oh lord, and I was worried about my ears...?!"

Well, for you, rather then meander into..."

Or, t..."


They could, but history shows they won't.
I just hope when they do, it's a fun scene, rather then cringe-worthy.


CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian (klandersen) | 178 comments Ha they should cast a ginger woman and then have her go on and on and complaining about having to be a ginger downplaying and ignoring the whole "I'm a woman" bit.


message 20: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments CaptKirk42 Classic Whovian wrote: "Ha they should cast a ginger woman and then have her go on and on and complaining about having to be a ginger downplaying and ignoring the whole "I'm a woman" bit."

Yes, having her getting all worked and then having it be because she's upset about her nose and then turning to the stunned companion and going 'What?"


message 21: by Robert (new)

Robert Wright (rhwright) | 74 comments 1) I agree that the new Doctor, should the role be played by a woman, should react like the Doctor to the physical change. Height, ears, still not ginger, etc, rather than focus on the gender specific changes. Though a companion might give a double take.
2) Finally came up with a female casting idea, though I can't say it's original as I saw it online somewhere. Natalia Tena, probably highest profile for playing Tonks in the Harry Potter series. Has a decent cv under her belt, but not of a level where a TV run on Who would be an impossible get. She's also been in Game of Thrones so, between that and Potter, she would have just enough of a profile to hit the sweet spot between totally unknown and too big to cast.


message 22: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments 1) I disagree with a woman as the Doctor. Personally, I don't have a problem if the Doctor is male or female. I'd actually enjoy the idea seeing some gender stereotypes getting broken down. My issue is that there are so few male role-models for boys who are not gun-nuts and testosterone fueled macho types in the action-adventure genres that to loose the Doctor as a male role model would be a real blow. But I'll keep watching either way.

2) Personally, I'd love to see Ben Whishaw in the role. He could play it neurotic. That'd be fun, at least at first. But I just adore him and anything he does I cherish. My first choice though would Hugh Laurie. But I'm not a casting director, so what do I know.

3) I do like the notion that being (or not being) ginger is more important than being either male or female. That's a hoot.

4) I'm just sad to see Capaldi go. I really wanted to see him under a different show-runner.


message 23: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Rick wrote: "1) I disagree with a woman as the Doctor. Personally, I don't have a problem if the Doctor is male or female. I'd actually enjoy the idea seeing some gender stereotypes getting broken down. My issue is that there are so few male role-models for boys who are not gun-nuts and testosterone fueled macho types in the action-adventure genres that to loose the Doctor as a male role model would be a real blow."

The bolded part. So much the bolded part!


message 24: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "Rick wrote: "1) I disagree with a woman as the Doctor. Personally, I don't have a problem if the Doctor is male or female. I'd actually enjoy the idea seeing some gender stereotypes getting broken ..."

unfortunately, Davies and Moffatt turned what was one of the only asexual role models on tv and turned him into just another guy blowing things up and smooching girls


message 25: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "Lori S. wrote: "Rick wrote: "unfortunately, Davies and Moffatt turned what was one of the only asexual role models on tv and turned him into just another guy blowing things up and smooching girls"

This too, which is why it was hilarious when Capaldi put his foot down about romance in the TARDIS and Moffet, who claimed "asexuals are boring" suddenly found himself having to deal with an asexual character again. Yay Capaldi!


message 26: by Lori S. (last edited Oct 08, 2017 08:37AM) (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Lori S. wrote: "Rick wrote: "1) I disagree with a woman as the Doctor. Personally, I don't have a problem if the Doctor is male or female. I'd actually enjoy the idea seeing some gender stereotypes getting broken down. My issue is that there are so few male role-models for boys who are not gun-nuts and testosterone fueled macho types in the action-adventure genres that to loose the Doctor as a male role model would be a real blow."

The bolded part. So much the bolded part!"


It's been months since I wrote that, and now I think that having a female in the part won't be so bad, as long as Chibnall and Co. stick to the character of the Doctor and not worry about the shell they are in. The Doctor can be and still is a roll model, not just for boys but for everyone, which I think is just as important.


message 27: by Jadetyger (new)

Jadetyger Sevea | 70 comments I like the Doctor best when they play up the fact that he is *an alien being*. I liked both Tennant and Smith in the role, for the most part, but I'd like to see more of the Doctor being somehow Other--apart from humanity. Compassionate, of course, but...not quite in step with those around him. Capaldi did a bit of that. I grew to like his Doctor, although I didn't at first (too angry for me).

Re: the female Doctor: I agree with Lori, here. She can still be a role model for boys. Her gender shouldn't come into it. The Doctor is the Doctor. Period. End of story. As long as the writers remember that, I think we'll be fine. If the Doctor starts shopping for bras, I'll have a real problem.


message 28: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "Lori S. wrote: "Rick wrote: "1) I disagree with a woman as the Doctor. Personally, I don't have a problem if the Doctor is male or female. I'd actually enjoy the idea seeing some gender stereotypes..."

Yes, done right this new Doctor could bring new fans to who and show boys that girls can be cool action heroes etc, as well as trans gender fans.
Good stuff all around.

Or they could screw it up, fandom acts like spoiled jerks because we let a girl in the club house and we crash and burn.

I want this to be the Wonder woman movie, not ghostbusters 2016.
It is such a gamble and I'm not sure which way it'll go.
Makes me nervous


message 29: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments So, is Doctor Who now considered a transgender character?

I've been avoiding a lot of fan chatter about the new Doctor as I'm still in mourning for Capaldi and was curious what the general vibe is.


message 30: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "So, is Doctor Who now considered a transgender character?

I've been avoiding a lot of fan chatter about the new Doctor as I'm still in mourning for Capaldi and was curious what the general vibe is."


It really depends on where you land - it's been years since I last visited Gallifrey Base (I assume they're still up?) so I don't know what the vibe is there, but aside from the nasty trolls on FB, there seems to some tentative optimism and even excitement in certain quarters.

As for the Doctor, and the rest of the Time Lords (no word on the average Gallifreyan yet), I'd say they are not Trans* so much as gender-fluid and probably not so stuck on the binary that has most of us puny humans so confuddled.


message 31: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments Lori S. wrote: "...The Doctor can be and still is a roll model, not just for boys but for everyone, which I think is just as important."

I agree. I just wish there were more quality male role models, instead of immature gun-toting crazies.


message 32: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments Lori S. wrote: "This too, which is why it was hilarious when Capaldi put his foot down about romance in the TARDIS and Moffet, who claimed "asexuals are boring" suddenly found himself having to deal with an asexual character again. Yay Capaldi! "

I didn't know Capaldi did that. Awesome! It does feel a bit like child-molestation when you have a 700 year old man flirting with a 20 year old woman. Can anyone say Twilight?


message 33: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Rick wrote: "Lori S. wrote: "This too, which is why it was hilarious when Capaldi put his foot down about romance in the TARDIS and Moffet, who claimed "asexuals are boring" suddenly found himself having to dea..."

I laughed when fangirls went 'yuck' about Capaldi and the idea of him and Clara.
Even when he was young and cute there was a 900 year age difference, not to mention the whole different species thing.


message 35: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (mollygr) I don’t know; sure the age difference is huge, but on the other hand you’ve got a really cute guy who looks around your own age who owns his own home and is willing to give most of his attention to your needs while actually being able to show you the universe.

I could overlook a couple things for that. :-)


message 36: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "I laughed when fangirls went 'yuck' about Capaldi and the idea of him and Clara.
Even when he was young and cute there was a 900 year age difference, not to mention the whole different species thing."


Actually a good deal older than the purported "2000" they keep dropping - he's probably closer to 5000 years old, give or take a millennia. After all, Ten was not above lying through his teeth about certain 'facts' about his life.


message 37: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments Actually, I've always thought of a lot of the inconsistencies is that the incarnations misremember things or are just outright lying. Now, would you want to be romantically involved with a guy who's lying about his age, his heritage, his past life experiences and his occupation? Sure, he's got all time & space at his fingertips, but let's just draw a line here: I catch you lying again and all bets are off buddy! ;)


message 38: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Okay, my mourning period is over, and I have watched both Jodi's intro trailer and the christmas trailer and I've got to say, I'm excited.

The Christmas trailer is giving me goosebumps, can't wait.

and the lady Doctor has potential.
Like that she was wearing Capaldi's body and it was too big for her and the blue was a good color on her. Maybe her suit could be that color.
Like the older companion too.

I'm feeling pretty hopeful about this.


message 39: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments Travis wrote: "... The Christmas trailer is giving me goosebumps, can't wait..."

Haven't seen that yet. I'll have to try and find it. ;)


message 40: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
I can see why Travis! Oooooh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkDX...

And just for the joy of it, watch this EPIC Trailer too.


message 41: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments Yep, it's full of goosebumps. Both actually. ;)


message 42: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments Lori S. wrote: "I can see why Travis! Oooooh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkDX...

And just for the joy of it, watch this EPIC Trailer too."


The epic trailer was really well done.

I do love a 'it's bigger on the inside!' montage.


message 43: by Trae (new)

Trae Stratton | 10 comments I hope we get a companion who isn't so carefree and brave about being in the Tardis soon. Though I'm sure the idea of traveling in time and space lures a certain personality like Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara etc, having an accidental companion or someone trying to get home but the Doctor can't get them there would add elements to the plot we haven't had in awhile. It's just hard to imagine everyone who goes with the Doctor being able to stare down Daleks, Ice Warriors, Silurians and Cybermen as easily as he does. I'm not saying we need a pansy, but it isn't bravery if you're not scared. Most companions these days get fearless pretty quickly.


message 44: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments I love all the parts of fandom that are acting like this ends all the 'Can be the Doctor be a women?" panels at cons and debate...

You are all so cute.
They will now morph into 'Can we do a second woman as the Doctor?' or 'Okay, we did a girl, where's my eskimo Doctor?"

We are fandom, there will never be less debate, there will always be more.


message 45: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "I love all the parts of fandom that are acting like this ends all the 'Can be the Doctor be a women?" panels at cons and debate...

You are all so cute.
They will now morph into 'Can we do a second..."


LOL
TRUTH


message 46: by Rick (new)

Rick | 1042 comments I agree. ;)


message 47: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments So, they released a picture of the new Doctor in what I believe will be her outfit and I am disappointed.


message 48: by Lori S. (last edited Nov 09, 2017 06:47PM) (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 581 comments Mod
Travis wrote: "So, they released a picture of the new Doctor in what I believe will be her outfit and I am disappointed."

My first response was: "Yikes! That's ugly."
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment...
LOL

I have to agree with the Mork comments.


message 49: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1168 comments They gave her earrings...?

See, I do not have a problem with a lady Doctor, as long as she is treated as just the Doctor.
The test for me was the outfit and they are stumbling.

I prefer the photoshopped pictures of her in Colin Bakers coat to what we are really getting.


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