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message 1: by Elsabet (new)

Elsabet | 14 comments Mod
Here's where we can talk randomly and just get to know know each other and interact with other TQT fans.


message 2: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each time I read the second one. I kind of feel bad that I don't appreciate the last line of the book.
How did you feel when you first read the second one?


message 3: by Elsabet (new)

Elsabet | 14 comments Mod
Juny wrote: "It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each time I read the second one. I..."

Well, I read the books out of order. My library didn't have the second one on hand and I was super impatient and actually read the third book before I read the second, so I was more prepared for it than others were, I imagine. I kinda feel like she did the right thing. If you'll read this https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... it explains my feelings about that subject. I mean, obviously it's not an ideal situation--falling in love with a woman who would eventually chop off your hand--but it worked out in the end. Does that make sense. I'm waaaaaaaay past my bed time and I feel like I might be incoherent.


message 4: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments Elsabet wrote: "Juny wrote: "It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each time I read the ..."

Yes indeed it did work out in the end and I do love how Irene changes and such. I big part of my frustration the first time I think came from not picking up on the clues that she was starting to love Eugenides. I know that sounds so stupid like how on earth could I not have seen that, and frankly I have no clue. I was so shocked when he suggested that they get married in the boat, I kept re-reading the line and paragraph to make sure I read it right. And then the second time I read it I saw all the clues and hints all over the place...Hahaha!
Anyways I liked your post about their relationship :)


message 5: by Elsabet (last edited Jan 30, 2017 09:01PM) (new)

Elsabet | 14 comments Mod
Juny wrote: "Elsabet wrote: "Juny wrote: "It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each ..."

Yeah, I know! That's the beauty of Megan Whalen Turner's writing. She always manages to shock you. You read it for the first time and your heart skips a beat because it is so absolutely unbelievable...for a second. And then when you think about it realization crashes fown upon your head in a tsunami and you understand how she had built up to it and just exactly how much you missed. It was there, you'd seen it, but you hadn't understood it at all. That's why I love her so much.

(Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed my post.)


message 6: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments Personally, I find their relationship spellbinding. It's shocking, yet somehow makes perfect sense. Eugenides states that he has loved Attolia since he was a child, which means he fell in love with her before she maimed him. She maimed him because she was raised under circumstances that demanded her cruelty. If she had been soft or merciful, she would have been dead long before she met Gen. I think she was trying to maintain this facade in the beginning of TQoA when she cut of Gen's hand, but realized shortly thereafter that she had been a bit too harsh (she listens to his misery outside of his cell). Nearing the end of the book, as Gen becomes more open about his love for the queen, she begins to realize that maybe cruelty isn't necessary in every aspect of her life. Maybe there was still hope for her to be, in a way, normal. Once she saw Gen's love for her, and realized that she loved him too (again, listening outside the cell, being reminded of when she broke her favorite bottle of perfume), she was sold. And of course, this wasn't love at first sight or some other cheesy kind of romance. This was a personal relationship that blossomed under unlikely circumstances, like when a flower grows between the cracks in pavement. It has its flaws, as every relationship does, but it's strong and true. I'm excited to read more about it in Thick as Thieves!


message 7: by Elsabet (new)

Elsabet | 14 comments Mod
Kaitlyn wrote: "Personally, I find their relationship spellbinding. It's shocking, yet somehow makes perfect sense. Eugenides states that he has loved Attolia since he was a child, which means he fell in love with..."

Yessssss! I really love Attolia. (I tend to call her that. I can't seem to call her just Irene. It seems disrespectful. I call older people "Mr." or "Mrs." or "Miss." It's a title, it's your status, it shows respect. "Attolia" is literally the head of her people. I respect her and her position too much to call her just Irene, even if she is just a character in a book.) She's harsh, but there's also a hidden, softer side that I love. MWT is sooooooooo good at writing female characters. They're neither the super cliche "strong female character" nor the shrinking violet. They're a good mix, and they're POWERFUL! I love it!


message 8: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments I mentioned this very briefly in my last comment but I wanted to explain.

There's a scene near the beginning of The Queen of Attolia where Attolia is listening to Eugenides outside his cell and suddenly thinks of when she got angry and threw a slipper and it broke her favorite amphora or perfume. This has always, ALWAYS confused me. Why would she think of that in a dirty dungeon, with a dirty boy as her only company? It made no sense.

And then it dawned on me.

When she was young, she got angry. In her rage, she lashed out without thinking and broke something she loved.

Now as the queen, she got mad at the Thief and, in her rage, she acted too harshly and broke him. Her actions can't be undone. He can't be fixed, his hand can't be replaced. When she realized that she immediately regretted her decision. Maybe she didn't know it then, but she loved him.

Ouch my heart.


message 9: by Sharla (new)

Sharla (thehonestavocado) | 9 comments Juny wrote: "It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each time I read the second one. I..."
I agree with all of you. I personally love Attolia and Eugenides relationship. One of my favorite parts in the Queen's Thief (besides the amphora metaphor!) is the myth Hespira and Hoerreon. Where the blacksmith Horreon working in the darkness and Hephestia decides to stay with him because she falls in love with him. I think it is comparable to Attolia and Eugenides since Attolia has been living in darkness and Eugendides decides to stay with her because he loves her, even after she tortured him.
This aside. I still agree with Juny. It is definitely sketchy that Eugenides still decides to marry Attolia even after she cuts off his hand. No matter how much they love each other before or after her cutting off his hand that is not something that can be glossed over. For any relationship or love to be possible there has to be trust. Cutting off his hand broke that trust.
Yet it is not impossible for the two to work through. I think provides a beautiful example of how the people who are hardest to love need it the most. Even when someone hurts you that doesn't mean you can't love them deeply. However I think the real issue here wasn't that he still loved her despite her cutting off his hand. The real issue they had to work through was how to trust each other after that, despite that and their history together. Which Megan Whalen Turner does an excellent job of. The last line of the Queen of Attolia is soooo good.

“Who am I, that you should love me?"
"You are My Queen," said Eugenides. She sat perfectly still, looking at him without moving as his words dropped like water into dry earth.
"Do you believe me?" he asked.
"Yes," she answered.
"Do you love me?"
"Yes."
"I love you."
And she believed him.”
― Megan Whalen Turner, The Queen of Attolia

(I think that's my all time favorite excerpt from the entire series! <3)


message 10: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments Sharla wrote: "Juny wrote: "It always frustrated me that Gen's hand got cut off and then he married the person that cut it off!!!! I like Irene now and all but it just really drives me crazy each time I read the ..."

Also I'm not quite sure she ever said sorry...Like she might've but I don't know I guess I would've liked to read her formal apology like, "Hey man sorry about cutting off your hand."


message 11: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments Thick as Thieves is being released Tuesday!!!


message 12: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments Random question: How do you guys pronounce Eddis?

a) EE-dis (like the "ee" in "seek")

b) EH-dis (like the "e" in "bed")

I say it like (a) but I was just wondering because apparently I say things weird :/

I also say it like (a) because Gen mentioned that it was once pronounced that way in the Thief.


message 13: by Lydia (new)

Lydia Corey (a) EE-dis


message 14: by Elsabet (new)

Elsabet | 14 comments Mod
I say it like option b, because it's no longer Eeddis, but the world has moved on and calls it Eddis now.

But I'm still kinda mad at the Magus. The people who live in a country ought to be able to pronounce the name of their country any way they want. And I think Eedis was a prettier pronunciation.


message 15: by Sharla (new)

Sharla (thehonestavocado) | 9 comments Elsabet wrote: "I say it like option b, because it's no longer Eeddis, but the world has moved on and calls it Eddis now.

But I'm still kinda mad at the Magus. The people who live in a country ought to be able t..."


I pronounce it EE-dis (option A). Haha I realize I"m a little slow on the uptake here. Guess my notifications got turned off.


message 16: by Jamie (new)

Jamie Dacyczyn (readsintrees) | 8 comments I always pronounced it Eeddis, even before the conversation between Gen and the Magus. Maybe I'm a true born Eddisian...


message 17: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments BOOK SIX COVER AND TITLE HAS BEEN RELEASED. THIS IS THE FINALE. I'M NOT CRYING. YOU'RE CRYING.


message 18: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments I KNOW! And I absolutely LOVE the name! By her naming it Return of The Thief she's putting it up there with the greats of entertainment. Return of the Jedi and Return of the King. AHHH! And it shall be one of the greats!


message 19: by Sharla (last edited Sep 09, 2018 02:41PM) (new)

Sharla (thehonestavocado) | 9 comments Who thinks that Eugenides will die in "Return of the Thief"


message 20: by Kristyn (new)

Kristyn | 23 comments This is a question that's been at the back of my mind for years, so what do you guys think?
Just how old is Eugenides and what is the age gap between them? We're never told exactly...but we are given some numbers. You can add any more numbers you come across:

In The Thief, Eddis has been Queen for 5 years. (The Thief, Chapter 12)

Attolia had only had her throne for a few years before that (Queen of Attolia, Chapter 7)
The Magus says that Eddis is young, almost as young as Eugenides (so I'm guessing a few years).
At this point, Eddis has been ruling for 7 years (Chapter 11) (maybe 8 by the time QoA is finished?)
Attolia was very young when she became queen (Chapter 12).

We have many many references to how young Eugenides is, especially when he is under Attolia's power. She thinks he is young, she thinks of him as a boy (though I have an inkling that she is over-emphasizing this to deny what she feels). Nonetheless, her court also seems to think of him as too young.

Certainly, when I read The Thief, I thought of him as a teen (that's how old I was when I read it). In QofA, Eddis tells him that he is no longer the Boy-hero, and later, Attolia reflects on how much he has grown, that boys often grow into manhood quickly.

My thoughts are these:
In The Thief, he was between 16 and 18, which would make him 11-13 when Eddis was crowned, and around 18-20 by the end of the QoA.

If Attolia was in her late-teens when she was crowned, early twenties when Eddis was crowned, she would be in her late twenties in QoA.

That would give them about a 10 year age gap, which is significant when you a child, but not as adults. My own parents are 11 years apart.

Ultimately, Eugenides is older than he looks and Attolia is younger than she feels.

What are your thoughts?


message 21: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments In the Thief also they mention that Sophos is younger that Eugenides and that Ambiades is older, I think they even say he's 17 I thought also that she also said Sophos was around 14-15 in the Thief, I forgot though.

But yes I totally agree that it seems like Attolia over emphasizes his "youngness". Especially I felt like in Thick As Thieves, when he turned out to be the sandle boy, they call him a boy but really when he was the sandle boy it was around the time of the Thief. That part got me confused because when they said boy I was thinking he was like 8.


message 22: by Kristyn (new)

Kristyn | 23 comments Juny,
I agree--That part in Thick as Thieves had me feeling the same way. However, I think it's that Eugenides is adept at role-switching, and could make himself seem as young as he wanted to, so if he wanted to seem more "boyish" than he really was, he had the skill to do it. He's certainly been able to hide his strategies!


message 23: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments Ah Yesss! Gen is petulant at times which he does so that people will underestimate him and then later BAM! He shows what he can really do like in TKoA with the sword play. Ahhhh! One of my favorite parts.


message 24: by Sharla (new)

Sharla (thehonestavocado) | 9 comments Kristyn wrote: "This is a question that's been at the back of my mind for years, so what do you guys think?
Just how old is Eugenides and what is the age gap between them? We're never told exactly...but we are gi..."


I agree with that assessment. Also looking at that, everyone is still quite young by the end of the last book. Which makes me wonder what if she has a large time gap in-between the last book and the next one in the series? She hasn't really done that much before, but I feel like it would be a little unexpected and in-line with MWT's writing style.


message 25: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments Ohhhh! I hadn't really thought of that! Good point! I hope he isn't too old where he has like changed dramatically and we missed it, because that would be sad. Eugenides is also timeless though, so if there is a gap perhaps we won't really notice it since she keeps the ages vague. Ah he can't be too old though in it because he goes and steals elephants as she hinted years ago...


message 26: by Kaitlyn (new)

Kaitlyn | 11 comments Sharla wrote: "Who thinks that Eugenides will die in "Return of the Thief""
He honestly probably will because Megan Whalen Turner is not afraid to crush us. Well, maybe she is, but that won't stop her.


message 27: by Jamie (new)

Jamie Dacyczyn (readsintrees) | 8 comments I wonder if he WON'T die specifically because MWT knows that we're expecting that kind of a shock.


message 28: by Juny (new)

Juny | 11 comments oooh! You've got a point there...In the synopsis though she has that hint that maybe he will die and if we look at past book descriptions such as with TQoA, she also put in a hint there that Gen would steal Irene's heart away which ended up happening. Still, perhaps since it's the last book she'll want to do something different and throw us for a loop.


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