World, Writing, Wealth discussion

44 views
World & Current Events > Radical Islam

Comments Showing 1-50 of 112 (112 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1 3

message 1: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 29, 2017 05:29PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments How does one counter radical Islam? Is Trump the answer or rather the cause for a proliferation of radicalisation?


message 2: by M.C. (new)

M.C. Glan | 6 comments He may not be the answer, but he may be the road to it.


message 3: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "How does one counter radical Islam? Is Trump the answer?"

Let radical Christains take care of it somewhere on a ground way far from the rest of the normal world.


message 4: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Trump is not the answer to radical Islam: he is one of its best recruiters, especially with his ban on citizens from 7 muslim countries. That man is a fact-free motor mouth disaster.


message 5: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 29, 2017 05:27PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments I agree with you Michel. If any, there would be proliferation of radicalisation I think.


message 6: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "How does one counter radical Islam? Is Trump the answer?"

Let radical Christains take care of it somewhere on a ground way far from the rest of the normal world."


Pretty much. Do it on the moon lol.


message 7: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "How does one counter radical Islam? Is Trump the answer?"

Let radical Christains take care of it somewhere on a ground way far from the rest of the normal world."

Pretty much. Do it on the moon lol. "


I was joking of course. The problem is more complex than it seems. I think we have to go back in time and try to understand how all this began.

I often refer to the 1916 secret Sykes–Picot Agreement where France and England split the Southwestern Asia between themselves while in the meantime Thomas Edward Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) was trying to unify the arabian tribes and use them against the Ottoman armed forces.

In their mind, the people of these territories were'nt important but neglected the fact that they quickly learned to remember regardless of all the efforts in having them work against each other.

No single country leader will ever succeed in correcting the errors of the past. Denial is still the commun denominator among them all.


message 8: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "How does one counter radical Islam? Is Trump the answer?"

Let radical Christains take care of it somewhere on a ground way far from the rest of the ..."


Absolutely! Couldn't agree with you more. And these will be the same terrorists or I should say mercenaries that governments wouldn't hesitate to recruit if push came to shove.


message 9: by Bernard (last edited Jan 29, 2017 09:01PM) (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments How about pointing out where a more serious problem exists?

These figures will allow for a better comparison between radical muslims and erratic gun owners.

Number of Amricans killed by...


message 10: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "How about pointing out where a more serious problem exists?

These figures will allow for a better comparison between radical muslims and erratic gun owners.

"


Thank you Bernard that is helpful. Five people have been killed reportedly in Quebec mosque today. Canadians are one of the most gentle and peace loving people I've ever come across.


message 11: by Bernard (last edited Jan 29, 2017 09:27PM) (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "How about pointing out where a more serious problem exists?

These figures will allow for a better comparison between radical muslims and erratic gun owners.

"

Thank you Bernard t..."


The city where this happened is my home town, even if I'm currently living in Merida (Mexico). I'm totally devastated and deeply sadden.

No one living in Quebec would have expected this kind of situation could happen. Quebec City had a tradition of having students from other countries, and we have always enjoyed discovering new cultures.

This has to stop. We must learn to share our fear of others, to be aware of how little we know about other cultures, other beliefs as well as offering us, all together, the best path to follow in order to become better people. Those who invest in fears and ignorance are sadly those who fear the most and deny their ignorance.

When our kids left home, we rented their rooms to students from other countries and many of them were Muslims. They were just great people.

The two murderers were arrested.


message 12: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "How about pointing out where a more serious problem exists?

These figures will allow for a better comparison between radical muslims and erratic gun owners.

Were the murderers Muslim fanatics? I have live in Canada for five years and have been to Montreal too. Canadians are such lovely peace loving people.

"

Tha..."



message 13: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Seemingly, the murderers were two French-Canadians. They killed five and wounded eleven armed with AK-47s.


message 14: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "Seemingly, the murderers were two French-Canadians. They killed five and wounded eleven armed with AK-47s."

French Canadians? Why on earth? Were they Muslim?


message 15: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "Seemingly, the murderers were two French-Canadians. They killed five and wounded eleven armed with AK-47s."

French Canadians? Why on earth? Were they Muslim?"


No. Would you believe Catholics? They attacked Muslims inside the mosque.


message 16: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Oh no! What coincidence. Literally happening even as we speak in real time.


message 17: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Apparently it is the CIA, Bernard.


message 18: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "Apparently it is the CIA, Bernard."

Obviously, you're talking about the Community of Imbecile Anti-Muslims.


message 19: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Apparently it is the CIA, Bernard."

Obviously, you're talking about the Community of Imbecile Anti-Muslims."


Yeah most likely Trump-backed terrorists. They don't realise that they are terrorists too.


message 20: by Michael (last edited Jan 29, 2017 11:03PM) (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Bernard wrote: " I think we have to go back in time and try to understand how all this began.

I often refer to the 1916 secret Sykes–Picot Agreement where France and England split the Southwestern Asia between themselves while in the meantime Thomas Edward Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) was trying to unify the arabian tribes and use them against the Ottoman armed forces."


You have to go back much farther than that, try 1099 and the First Crusade. The Christian Crusaders slaughtered Muslim women and children.

Here's an article from 2003 that touches upon how deep seated the hate really is and how we got to where we are... (were since its 14 yrs old)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/s...


message 21: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments It will all end in disaster with no winner. It happened in the past, and it will happen again. The crusades never solved the problem.


message 22: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Also, no war has solved any problem. All it has done is create more hostility and hatred.


message 23: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Couldn't agree more with all of you.


message 24: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments The Sykes–Picot Agreement is considered by historians as the beginning of the modern conflict.

But we could also go back to 711 AD when the Moors invaded Spain, Portugal and a part of France amusingly aided by the Hebrew who provided them with many of the ships used to cross over to Gibraltar. The Moors and Berbers quickly made the Christians understand with some rather extensive examples of how they ended lives with their scimitars that they should cooperate with them. The conquest was followed by some 700 years of peaceful coexistence of muslims, jews and christians.


message 25: by Alex (new)

Alex (asato) Michael wrote: "Bernard wrote: " I think we have to go back in time and try to understand how all this began.

I often refer to the 1916 secret Sykes–Picot Agreement where France and England split the Southwestern..."


enlightening article on Christian extremism exemplified by Falwell and Robertson as well as the extremely brief summary of the effects of the Crusades on Islamic culture. more food for thought.


message 26: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Bernard wrote: "The Sykes–Picot Agreement is considered by historians as the beginning of the modern conflict.

But we could also go back to 711 AD when the Moors invaded Spain, Portugal and a part of France amusi..."


Traditionally, Muslims, Jews and the Christians have always fought over the land of Palestine too. No matter who came after whom, but the turmoil has always been there. And modern politics has taken a lot of advantage of this dispute as it is still going even to the disgust of Lawrence of Arabia who refused his award in the end.


message 27: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13456 comments Just trying to be pragmatic here -:)
Re suspension of entry for 3 month of citizens of 7 countries. I argue a country is not a shopping mall (and even the shopping mall has the right to prevent dangerous types from entering). No foreigner is entitled to enter to your home (a country is like a big home). Currently, some countries prevent entrance of ill people (with dangerous diseases), some East European billionaires are banned from entrance to the US because of suspected (not established) connections with mafia, Russian politicians are banned, because of sanctions, I see no problem whatsoever to put in place some kind of measures to be able to tell dangerous from not dangerous. Any American killed by someone would be graver than postponing of travel even of few hundreds. Just my opinion. Of course, radical elements don't need to cast stigma on all the Muslim, which in their vast majority are probably nice and peace-loving people. Take into account that traveling to Europe, for example, for someone in Ukraine necessitates Schengen visa and many are denied it daily without public outcry about it. As I understand there no suspension about most Muslim countries, be it Morocco or Indonesia...

Re the numbers of killed. I think low numbers after 9/11, if they were true, would be the source of pride and good work of security and intelligence. Al-Qaida, El-Bagdadi, ISIS are not an invention and they all pose threat and would stage any mega-terror act in the States if they could. As far as I remember in Orlando alone 49 people were killed last year. Don't exactly see it reflected in the table above and don't see why 9/11 shouldn't be included into the stats. Just because it would change drastically the picture?

Re killing Muslims in Quebec is as grave as any other act of terror!

Historical background is not important. If Native Americans started to kill Caucasian/European Americans (don't even know what's the term now -:)) or Amazonas tribes other Brasilains and so on, because of what happened in the past, it wouldn't be right or justified, because these generations are innocent and need not take any blame for what had been hundreds of years ago. Whoever done what 100 years ago, doesn't give anyone any right to kill anyone else...
You see what Muslims do to Muslims currently in their countries? Does anyone want the same happening in his/her country?
Radical Islam, Jihadists are dangerous and shall be dealt like with any other extremists, but from what I understand they are only a small fraction and most Muslims reject their way too...

Not defending Trump and I'm not exactly a fan of how he does things, just trying to understand his logic and I think there is one behind some of his ideas..


message 28: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments GR wrote: "It will all end in disaster with no winner. It happened in the past, and it will happen again. The crusades never solved the problem."

The point was that the Christians at that point were the barbarians and the Muslims, especially Saladin, were actually much more peaceful.

The Christians could have lived in peace with the Muslims, we chose not to.


message 29: by Nihar (new)

Nihar Suthar (niharsuthar) | 38 comments This conversation is occuring at the right time! I don't think Trump's immigration policy will help much but that's just my opinion. Especially in the tech-business world, he may make some enemies. Let's see what happens.

-Nihar
www.niharsuthar.com


message 30: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Mehreen wrote: "Bernard wrote: "The Sykes–Picot Agreement is considered by historians as the beginning of the modern conflict.

But we could also go back to 711 AD when the Moors invaded Spain, Portugal and a part..."


I agree. Even before Christ, everyone was fighting over pieces of land, water holes, etc. Christians quickly joined the club by adding their own religious landmarks. Something that began as tribal wars turned into religious wars. Given time, it was probably written in their DNA. LOL


message 31: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 30, 2017 12:28AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Just trying to be pragmatic here -:)
Re suspension of entry for 3 month of citizens of 7 countries. I argue a country is not a shopping mall (and even the shopping mall has the right to prevent dan..."


If we were to follow Trump's logic then everyone should ban everybody's entrance. Make this world a stalemate. History is important. It is what's happened in the past that has led us to this. CIA, Mossad and British spies did whatever they felt like doing. Killed whoever they wanted to. The west hatched plot after plot, one conspiracy after another. Trump is probably doing the same even as we speak. Infiltrating, plotting as everyone in the past. An act of terror is not an isolated case but happens as chain reaction. We need to understand history to get a clearer picture. And the picture is often that terror and terrorism is what out world history is made up of rightly or wrongly carried on not just by the Muslims but everyone nearly at some point in life. How to stop this happening over and over again is the challenge. I don't think Trump's policy will work. Our world is in a far more dangerous place than ever before.


message 32: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Nik wrote: "You see what Muslims do to Muslims currently in their countries? Does anyone want the same happening in his/her country?
Radical Islam, Jihadists are dangerous and shall be dealt like with any other extremists, but from what I understand they are only a small fraction and most Muslims reject their way too... "


That small fraction is growing though. And soon enough (within a few generations?) the radical extremist Muslims might supplant the more moderate Muslims through radicalization, murder and attrition.

This a problem that isnt going to be easily solved. Its been around for 1000 years, Bernard says 1300 years. Either way, all of us posting on this board will be long gone by the time there's a solution, IF there's ever a solution.

Who knows maybe a couple of spaceships landing at the right time will finally convince ALL people that fighting over religion is ridiculous.


message 33: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments What a fascinating discussion but I need some sleep. So I'll temporarily ban myself and lock myself up for the night in my double gated bed room.


message 34: by Nik (last edited Jan 30, 2017 12:36AM) (new)

Nik Krasno | 13456 comments Mehreen wrote: " CIA, Mossad and British spies did whatever they felt like doing. Killed whoever they wanted to...."

Don't think so. They are after very specific dangerous individuals and have a clear chain of command, rules and so on. Were there mistakes or casualties? Undoubtedly, but they never target innocent people and that makes a huge difference.
I argue no crusaders, Bush, Trump, Saladin for that matter or anyone doesn't justify killing innocent people. Whatever territorial demands whatever country has, doesn't justify killing and targeting civilians. There is simply no justification. There were and are injustices? Of course and they need to be dealt with. Terrorists killing civilians to cause mayhem and attract attention to them, are still terrorists and do nothing good to the cause... And it doesn't matter from what religion or race they come. That probably goes to all radicals: be it ISIS, KKK or neo-nazis whoever...

What we see mostly Muslims killing Muslims and indeed radical movements may be growing. I think the illusion that radical groups would enter a peaceful country and say 'wow, how nice' and bury arms is a bit naive...


message 35: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13456 comments Bernard wrote: "What a fascinating discussion but I need some sleep. So I'll temporarily ban myself and lock myself up for the night in my double gated bed room."

Wait you need to take your shoes off and pass through metal detector -:)


message 36: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 30, 2017 12:48AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Mehreen wrote: " CIA, Mossad and British spies did whatever they felt like doing. Killed whoever they wanted to...."

Don't think so. They are after very specific dangerous individuals and have a c..."


Such radical groups are everywhere. They travel to every place on this earth. Do you see anyone stopping them?


message 37: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments What rules do spies follow? They bomb hotels, casinos, pubs. King David Hotel check out the history, and the list goes on and on mate.


message 38: by Elisa (new)

Elisa | 2 comments Is he the answer? No, no one person has the answer. It has to start in their own country first. I don't see that happening at all, with or without Trump.

We have our problems to fix and people are fed up with how the last 8 years went.


message 39: by Nik (last edited Jan 30, 2017 01:41AM) (new)

Nik Krasno | 13456 comments Mehreen wrote: "Such radical groups are everywhere. They travel to every place on this earth. Do you see anyone stopping them?

But that certainly doesn't mean that no one shouldn't. Every country has army, police, border guards, special services, fire departments, etc, to protect their citizens from different human and inhuman dangers, They get substantial funding for this and that's their task. The arguable question is the degree of involvement in affairs taking place on foreign turf. There are situs where the involvement isn't obvious and others - where unarmed people are being slaughtered and the world that declares to have 'values' can't stay aside...


message 40: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13456 comments Mehreen wrote: " King David Hotel check out the history, and the list goes on and on mate."

I think that after the instance, all resistance organizations abandoned this way though. Sure, there were people like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_... ' for example, and it's also a terrorist and it's important to call it the same way and act against it.


message 41: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 30, 2017 01:41AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Mehreen wrote: " King David Hotel check out the history, and the list goes on and on mate."

I think that after the instance, all resistance organizations abandoned this way though. Sure, there wer..."


Even if you ban all the Muslims in the world to enter the USA, children will still get killed in the classrooms by home grown terrorists. There are plenty of them there. I think it is appropriate to quote Chomsky here, "If you want to stop terror stop participating in it." Call off your wars, stop snooping around in the oil-rich ME greedy as they come. Even Lawrence of Arabia found this whole business of meddling and spying disgusting which is why he renounced his award. West has played them now they are getting back. I do wish with all my heart that this sordid affair would stop. Any signs?


message 42: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Mehreen wrote: " King David Hotel check out the history, and the list goes on and on mate."

I think that after the instance, all resistance organizations abandoned this way though. Sure, there wer..."


They showed the way and now the show is on. It a'int over until the fat lady sings.


message 43: by Bernard (last edited Jan 30, 2017 08:22AM) (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Nik wrote: "Bernard wrote: "What a fascinating discussion but I need some sleep. So I'll temporarily ban myself and lock myself up for the night in my double gated bed room."

Wait you need to take your shoes ..."


Not only my shoes. My wife is in charge of the metal detector. LOL


message 44: by Amber (new)

Amber Foxx (amberfoxx) | 6 comments It may be that the way to counter radicalism, whether it's among angry, disaffected Muslims or angry disaffected Christians, is with complex, time-consuming changes in societies and economies that allow people to feel they have a place, a future, and a purpose. Economic displacement may be part of what fuels radicalization. And hate-filled media probably helps. I think we need community renewal at local levels, conversations with people we disagree with, face to face and peaceful.


message 45: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Mehreen wrote: ""If you want to stop terror stop participating in it." Call off your wars, stop snooping around in the oil-rich ME greedy as they come. "

Ahh if it were only that easy. The availability of natural resources has always been the basis for war -- land, food, water, gold and now oil.

You have it, I want it. Needs and greed will always fuel a person's desire to commit violence. Until we can hit a utopian society where everything is freely available to everyone without work or struggle I dont think we will stop creating what we now call terrorists (or freedomfighters).


message 46: by Don (new)

Don H.M (theayatollahofrock) | 11 comments His immigration ban on 7 war torn countries is the same as Obama used in 2013. Obama used drone strikes killing migrants and Isis alike. Trump on the other hand just made a deal to give the migrants safe zones in their own countries. It's obvious seeks stability in the region and he actually means to finish Isis. Trump is helping 12 times more refuges by stopping immigration and safe zones than he would have by allowing them into the U. S. He hasn't issued a ban on Pakistan, the strongest military power in the region and Saudi Arabia, the wealthiest country know the region. He isn't banning all Muslim from entering America, his end goal is stopping all muslim could tries with radical islam and no means to fight it. Obama and Hilary commit mass murder in the countries they take refugees from. I can't believe I am saying this but Donald is much more humane the the racist xenophobe I thought he was. He has taken the first two steps in ensuring a stop to migrants by wiping out the extremist militants. The U. S funded these militants under Obama, and Trump is only doing what is best for both regions instead of searching for WMD's where none exist. I don't think America has had a president this dead set on undoing everything wrong his predecessor permanently end the war that has too many young men and women die so you can complain about social justice. The media is just wrong and you'll see in a few months how much so.


message 47: by Alex (last edited Feb 03, 2017 05:25PM) (new)

Alex (asato) Don wrote: "Trump on the other hand just made a deal to give the migrants safe zones in their own countries."

interesting point about safe zones, but it's a proposal--not a done deal--and if there's a war going on, then isn't it easier to let the refugees flow out into an area that is already safe? like a neighboring country? or is the travel too difficult? or, perhaps, it's more a matter of political will? it's been tried before, but didn't work.
"in Bosnia, and the outcome was bad. In 1993, the international community designed six "safe havens" for Muslim communities, to protect them from Serb attacks. A UN report at the time said the goal included limiting "loss of life and property, deterring aggression, demonstrating international concern and involvement, setting the stage for political negotiations and facilitating the delivery of humanitarian aid." The objective in Syria would likely be very similar.
These safe havens were to be protected by a UN peacekeeping presence and, if necessary, air power. But the UN troops were inadequately armed and thin on the ground, and in 1995 the Bosnian Serb militia rolled into one of the safe havens -- Srebrenica -- and slaughtered thousands of men and boys."
and Trump also said that the Gulf states should pay for these safe zones, but we'll see if they step up to the plate.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/27/middlee...


message 48: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Excuse me, Don, but I have a very hard time believing anything you said, as facts tells me you are dead wrong about most of what you said, especially with your outlandish attacks saying that Obama and Hilary committed mass murder. If you want to engage in a serious, fact-based discussion, fine, but don't push political propaganda on Goodreads.


message 49: by Bernard (new)

Bernard Boley (bernard_boley) | 126 comments Don wrote: "His immigration ban on 7 war torn countries is the same as Obama used in 2013. Obama used drone strikes killing migrants and Isis alike. Trump on the other hand just made a deal to give the migrant..."

You're obviously not living on the same planet most of us are!!!


message 50: by Mehreen (last edited Feb 03, 2017 07:24PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Don wrote: "His immigration ban on 7 war torn countries is the same as Obama used in 2013. Obama used drone strikes killing migrants and Isis alike. Trump on the other hand just made a deal to give the migrant..."


Are you saying Donald is or is not impervious to human suffering?


« previous 1 3
back to top