Never too Late to Read Classics discussion
Group Bookshelf √√√
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**Classic Suggestions for the Bookshelf**
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The Sleepwalkers by Hermann Broch for the German/Austrian shelf
Is there a shelf for Dutch/Belgian classics?these could go there:
Lijmen / Het Been by Willem Elsschot
Kaas by Willem Elsschot
(both books are 'slice of life', about ordinary people (salesmen, in these cases), faced with hard times, their morality conscience. Interesting reads, but not very jolly).
De leeuw van Vlaanderen by Hendrik Conscience
Kruistocht in spijkerbroek by Thea Beckman ( a YA book about the crusades and time travel)
Max Havelaar: Or the Coffee Auctions of the Dutch Trading Company - Multatuli
(About the Dutch occupation in the East-Indies, and a Dutch man who wants to make live better for slaves on the plantations. It's written by a man who lived there, and it shocked the Dutch population when it was published (1860).
In honor of/as remembrance, in Belgium and the Netherlands, the fair-trade label is called 'Max Havelaar', and is used for coffee, but also for chocolate, sugar, cotton, and a lot of other products.)
Van den vos Reynaerde by Willem die Madocke maecte
It's a medieval text (and is usually referred to by its archaic title, the modern version would be 'Over Reinaard de Vos' (About the fox Raynard). Despite it's age, it's funny and still relevant. A sly fox trickes everyone in the kingdom, and when king Nobel hears of it from the other animals, he holds a trial.
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I do not recall one, but I will check it out this weekend. Thank you for the information!
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Lesle wrote: "Does require it to be a 50 years old or older for a Classic or 30 years or older for a FWC.Please make sure you use the 'add book/author' and what list (Country) category it would need to be ad..."
what is a FWC?
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Like Willa Cather's book O Pioneers!, Jack London's White Fang and Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry are a few that falls under this category.
Lesle wrote: "FWC is Frontier, Adventure or Western ClassicLike Willa Cather's book O Pioneers!, Jack London's White Fang and [book:Lonesome Dove|256..."
Thanks.
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The books listed above are just samples of each category.
Hope that helps.
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Eclipse Of The Cresent Moon by Géza Gárdonyia classic Hungarian childrens book.
eta: I noticed The snow queen by Andersen and An old-fashioned Thanksgiving by Alcott are only shelved as 'read', shouldn't they be on one of the YA shelves as well?
And Alcott on the American shelf.
And may I make another suggestion (shoot me down if you don't think it's appropriate, no worries): change the shelf 'norwegian classics' to 'scandinavian'.
Then you could add By the Open Sea by August Strindberg without having to create a new shelf. (he's swedish). And Danish could go on the same shelf too (Andersen).
And Some suggestions for a Japanese shelf:Kokoro by Natsume Sōseki
The Pillow Book by Sei Shōnagon
Thousand Cranesby Yasunari Kawabata
Rashomon by Akutagawa Ryūnosuke
The Sound of Waves by Yukio Mishima
Mimi wrote: "And Some suggestions for a Japanese shelf:Kokoro by Natsume Sōseki
The Pillow Book by Sei Shōnagon
Thousand Cranesby [auth..."
I love Japanese literature. I've got [book:The Sound of the Mountain|59950] by Yasunari Kawabata waiting in my bookshelf.
Lars Martin wrote: "I love Japanese literature. I've got The Sound of the Mountain by Yasunari Kawabata waiting in my bookshelf. ."That's an excellent example of Japanese literature. It takes a bit of effort, and it's not for everyone, but with the right mindset, it's a great book.
I plan on reading it too, completly this time.
(I read several pages when I was in uni, it was on our list. But since the reading list was too big for our departement (about 500 titles across all courses for 1 year), our professors agreed we could read chapters and summaries...)
Mimi wrote: "Lars Martin wrote: "I love Japanese literature. I've got The Sound of the Mountain by Yasunari Kawabata waiting in my bookshelf. ."That's an excellent example of Japanese literature...."
Reading chapters and summaries sounds like my time at the university too. Ha ha :)
What would be a good comedy classic? 3 Men in a Boat is my current favorite. I loved Catch-22 but it was a bit too dark. Lucky Jim is "currently reading". Started with A Confedracy of Dunces, but found the humour a forced. Dickens-ian humour is greatly loved. Any other suggestions?Being new to the discussions setup here on Goodreads, I do not know where to post this. Do let me know if this is out of place!
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Your fine! I can add your choices to the bookshelf if they are not already listed.
Thank you for your additions!
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Mimi, Thanks for the corrections and additions to the categories!
Thank you for the suggestions.
Any Member : If you would like to add more I and other Members would appreciate it.
Starting with message after 23.
Satwik wrote: "What would be a good comedy classic?..."I recently read The Master and Margarita and it made me laugh quite a bit! But if Catch-22 is considered too dark, this one might also, considering there are some beheadings? =P
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for the ireland list:Allagar na h-Inise (Island Cross Talk) by Tomás Ó Criomhthain, 1856-1937. (1928)
An t-Oileánach (The Islandman) by Tomás Ó Criomhthain (1929)
Machnamh Seana-mhná (An Old Woman's Reflections) by Peig Sayers, 1873–1958. (1939)
Peig by Peig Sayers(1936)
Is truagh ná fanann an óige (A Pity Youth Does not Last) by Micheál Ó Gaoithín, 1904-1974, (1953)
Fiche Blian Ag Fas (Twenty Years a Growing) Muiris Ó by Súilleabháin,1904–1950. (1933)
Jimín Mháire Thaidhg by Pádraig Ó Siochfhradha, 1883–1964. (1921)
Short Stories of Pádraic Pearse, 1879–1916. ("Íosagán" first published in 1910.His stories were published as a collected volume: íosagán agus sgéalta eile, 1918.)
Beside the Fire (Le h-ais na Teineadh) by Douglas Hyde, 1860–1949. (1910)
Legends of Saints & Sinners. by Douglas Hyde. (1915)
Abhráin grádh chúige Connacht (Love songs of Connacht) by Douglas Hyde (1893)
Peadar Ua Laoghaire, 1839–1920, - Séadna (1907) and Mo Sgéal Féin (My Own Story) 1915.
Cúirt An Mheán Oíche (The Midnight Court) by Brian Merriman, 1749–1805. (1780)
Dánta Aodhagáin Uí Rathaille / The Poems of Egan O'Rahilly. 1670–1729. (Of all the 17th century poets this the one I am most familiar with)
Máirtín Ó Direáin, 1910–1988. - Rogha Danta (poems) (1949)
Cré na Cille (Graveyard Clay) by Máirtín Ó Cadhain, 1906-1970. (1949)
The INNTI circle (journal founded 1970): Louis de Paor (1961- ), Michael Davitt (1950–2005), Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill (1952- ), Liam Ó Muirthile (1950- ) and Gabriel Rosenstock (1949- )
Alan Titley (1947-) - Méirscrí na treibhe (1978)
Caitlín Maude (1941-1982) "Caitlín Maude, Dánta" (1984)
An Crann Géagach (Branching Tree) (1920) by Pádraic Ó Conaire, 1882-1928.
Máiréad Ní Ghráda,1896-1970. An Triail (The Trial) (1964, on school leaving certificate in 2017.)
Brendan Behan , 1923-1964. -- Borstal Boy (1958), The Quare Fellow (1954) and An Giall (1958)
Padraic Colum, 1881-1972. - The Golden Fleece (1920) The Saxon Shillin' (1902) "She Moved Through the Fair" (poem, 1909)
Sean O Casey, 1880-1964. - Juno and the Paycock (1923), The Shadow of a Gunman (1924), Plough and the Stars(1926)
Brian Friel, 1929-2015. - Translations (1980), Dancing at Lughnasa (1990)
Christina Reid , 1942-2015. - Joyriders (1986)
Lady Gregory, 1852-1932. - Gods and Fighting Men (1904), Rising of the Moon (1907)
John B. Keane, 1928-2002. - the Field (1965)
John Millington Synge, 1871-1909. - Playboy of the Western World (1907), Riders to the Sea (1904), In the Shadow of the Glen (1903),
Bram Stoker, 1847-1912. - Dracula (1897)
Sheridan Le Fanu, 1814-1873 - Carmilla (1871)
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950 - Pygmalion (1913)
William Butler Yeats, 1865-1935 - The Countess Kathleen (1892), Wanderings of Ossian (1889), Celtic Twilight (1893) "Lake Isle of Innisfree" (poem, 1890) (Nobel Prize for Literature 1923)
Seamus Heaney, 1939-2013.- Beowulf (1999), Sweeney Astray (1983), North (1975), Death of a Naturalist (1966) (Nobel Prize 1995)
mediaeval texts:
Táin Bó Cúailnge, (12th century).
Cath Maige Tuiredh, (12th century redaction of 9th century material.)
Deirdre (Derdriu) (8th-9th century)
not sure if translations count, but if so Padraig O Cadhla's (1875–1948) translation of Lewis Carroll seems important. Eaċtraḋ Eiḃlís i dTír na nlongantas (1922).
Mod
One question, all fall into the 50 years or older category of Classics?
I will start working on updating the Bookshelf once you let me know if that is accurate.
Thank you so much for the additions!
Most of them do... but theres one chunk of modern classics. Caitlin Maude for example was only ever published in print after her death... (Gael Linn pressed an audio recording of her reading earlier than that) but Irish kids study her poems in school, from what I understand. I'll have to look up the dates for you.This list is based on my own bookshelves, so it represents the bias of my own expertise, but I didnt include non-fiction (linguistics, history, archaeology, etc.) from those lists. (Although if you wanted to get technical I guess those Kerry writers from the 1930s were writing autobiographies not novels, but same could be said of my fav George Orwell books in the same period.) I feel its a bit weaker on the English language side and Irish language writers from after the language reform in 1948. But obviously there are writers who are of literary significance in these areas so someone who has studied those might come up with a different list. I left off the obvious choices of Joyce, Beckett and Swift because you had already listed those.
Mimi wrote: "Is there a shelf for Dutch/Belgian classics?these could go there:
Lijmen / Het Been by Willem Elsschot
Kaas by Willem Elsschot
(both books are 'slic..."
When I was taking Dutch in college we spent some time watching and discussing the Rutger Hauer film of Max Havelaar. I remember our teachers talking about the book but said that Dutch of this era was very difficult to read by modern readers... moreso than English from the same period?
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Thank you Stuart! They way you explained those, I think we should include all of them as we have students and teachers as well in the group. I will work on this soon!
Appreciate the time you took to make the list!
I am quite glad that was helpful to you.I was not very specific about the Innti writers apart from listing them, but here is an article that sums up their importance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innti
They made the comparison to the Beat Generation in the US, which occurred to me also. I also thought of the Nouveau Roman in France (Robbe-Grillet, Duras, etc.) and the Magical Realists in Latin America (Borges, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Allende, Esquivel, etc.) Maybe not in a literal way but in terms of being significant literary movements that had an import influence on writing in their countries.
here are some titles:
Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill - An Dealg Droighin [The Blackthorn Spine] (1981), Féar Suaithinseach [Marvellous Grass] (1984). My university professor introduced me to her by assigning me to read "Táimid Damanta, a Dheirféaracha" (Sisters, We are Damned) and its still my personal fav.
Michael Davitt - Gleann ar Ghleann [Valley by Valley] (1982) Bligeard Sráide [Blackguard] (1983)
Liam Ó Muirthile - Tine Chnámh [Bonfire] (1984)
Gabriel Rosenstock - Susanne sa seomra folctha [Susanne in the bathroom] 1973
Louis de Paor - Próca solais is luatha [Urn of Light and Ashes](1988)
also the wiki article mentioned some earlier influences:
Seán Ó Tuama, 1926-2006 - Faoileán Na Beatha [seagull of life] (1962), Gunna Cam agus Slabhra Óir (Twisted gun and gold chain) (1973)
An Grá in Amhráin na nDaoine [Love in the Songs of the People](1960)
Seán Ó Ríordáin, 1916-1977. - Eireaball Spideoige [A Robin's Tail] (1952), Brosna [Kindling] (1964), Línte Liombó [Limbo Lines] (1971), Tar éis mo Bháis [After my Death] (1978) O Riordain's poems are part of Irish school curriculum and widely known.
4 of the 5 members of Innti have been awarded with membership to the Aosdána, a select group of Irish writers and other artists.
Alot of these books are obviously younger than your 50 year mark but I am starting to think that maybe what defines a books as a classic has less to do with age than the amount of influence it has on a language or culture. But it is your call.
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Bookshelf is done and I also added it to the BookList under Discussions.
Stuart wrote: "Mimi wrote: "Is there a shelf for Dutch/Belgian classics?these could go there:
Lijmen / Het Been by Willem Elsschot
Kaas by Willem Elsschot
(both bo..."
Just saw your post. The Dutch Havelaar is written in, is indeed tricky, even for native speakers.
Between the English of the period and modern English, the difference lies mostly in the grammatic and certain words that went out of fashion.
In Dutch, we had those changes too (and quite a bit more change in vocabulary, compared to English), but also, the spelling has changed quite a bit since then (we've seen a few big reforms in spelling, the last major one being in 1996-97).
Dutch (and it's dialects) is a complex language, and in constant flux, more so than any other germanic language, which makes it extra though.
I could go on for pages and pages, honestly, but I promise I won't.
Long story short, the difference between Dutch now and Havelaar's Dutch is more like the difference between today's English and that of the Middle Ages.
ETA:
Maybe a fun fact that illustrates how tricky Dutch is: every year there's a very prestigious contest 'Het Grote Dictee der Nederlandse Taal' (The great dictation of the Dutch Language), which is televised in both the Netherlands and Belgium.
Participants are all professionally involved with language (writers, linguists, journalists etc), or selected members of the public. Nobody completes the text without a mistake, even though it's in modern, standardized Dutch.
Mimi thats really fascinating.... I imagined the difference was like the difference between our english and that of shakespeare... but wasnt sure if it was that significant. obviously languages and literatures evolve at different rates which is the point i was trying to make in my posts to lesle. English had its most radical shift in Chaucer's day but there is no reason why dutch or frisian which are closer to the germanic roots of english would not do it at another point in time. I remember looking at a book about domela niewenhuis in the library and they used the pronoun "gij". I asked my teacher said it was an older form similar to our use of thou or ye. On the other hand, my teacher once told us when he was learning english he had needed to memorise "shrive, shrove, shriven" When, he asked, have you guys ever had to use this word?
Well, 'gij' is an old form, but it is regularly used in several of the dialect forms. It's heavily used in most Flemish dialects, and several Dutch ones too (variating in pronunciation, 'gij', 'gie', 'ge')Up until recently, there's always been a rather large divide between written and spoken Dutch, and it's a fairly recent development that more colloquial terms get used in writing again.
Being Flemish, I'll mostly use 'gij' in spoken form, but in written form, I'll always use 'jij'.
ETA: Frisian is a whole other language, really. A native dutch speaker will understand most dialect (although there are some really big differences in vocabulary, much more than the difference between British and American English), but not a lot will understand Frisian.
Yes Frisian is different but it it is even closer to English than Dutch is. There is a video I have seen where the comedian Eddie Izzard speaks Old English (ala Beowulf) to a farmer in Friesland and they can sort of understand each other. My teacher was actually from Ghent so I am sure I must have picked up a few Flemish things... There was an article in a Belgian magazine I was trying to read, and my other teacher who was from the NL said you could tell it was Flemish because of certain words and the way they structured the sentences.
It is interesting about gij being kept though. German and French dialects in N America (And maybe Spanish too, not sure) tend to hold on to words that are from the time when they originally came here but lost in Europe.
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The same could be said about the spanish, portuguese, french and german in South America.
I liked the explanation about the dutch language.
The theory (or one of them) of why Dutch changes so quickly is rather interesting (to me). Even though Flanders and the NL are not so large, we literally have dozens of dialects, that each has a unique vocabulary and grammatic (and someone who's from Ghent and speaks his dialect is almost not to be understood by someone from Antwerp or Amsterdam, and vice versa).
But across the countries we've always had a standardized form (AN - Algemeen Nederlands, formerly ABN), which was used in writing, and on television. It's comparable to how some cultures have a 'mother-in-law-language' (which is a polite form of the language, that you use towards elders, family-in-law and other respected people).
It's only in the last 10-15 years that that's changing, and we hear more dialect on television.
Also, we easily adopt words from other languages into our own, but that has historical reasons: we've been ruled by a lot of different european countries, then there's the colonizes areas, and Flanders and the Dutch ports have always been involved in world-wide trade.
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A Bulgarian village under Ottoman rule and depicts a failed insurrection in the 1870s that helped trigger the country’s eventual breakaway. The large cast of characters includes villagers on both sides of the rebellion.
Some of the other famous works by Vazov include the novels New Country (1894), Under Our Heaven (1900), The Empress of Kazalar (1902), Songs of Macedonia (1914), It Will Not Perish (1920) and the plays Vagabonds (1894), A Newspaperman? (1900), Borislav (1909) and Ivaylo (1911)
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Short-story collection is about the backbreaking, impoverished, dangerous existence of coal miners in southern Chile in the late 19th century.
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What it’s about: This novella is about an old woman named Hadoula who lives on the island of Skiathos. She murders poor young girls as a kind of mercy killing, since she views their future prospects to be limited and bleak.
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Known in English as Seven Brothers, this book is about a quarrelsome family of seven brothers and their struggles in rural Finland. They eventually grow and mature into decent members of society.
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Known in English as The Betrothed, this novel takes place in northern Italy in the first half of the 17th century. Italy was not yet a nation, and this book shows the lives of villagers living under repressive Spanish rule as well as the impact of a deadly plague that killed many people.
The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco (Italy)
Set in Italy during the Middle Ages, the book explores a murder mystery in one Italian monastery in the year 1327. Accusations of heresy and seven mysterious deaths prompt Brother William of Baskerville to investigate in fourteenth century Italy.
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The novel reconstructs the interwoven account of the past of the three Abrahamic religions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. It is set on an imaginary Cairene alley of the 19th century.
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This novel is about a man named Juan Preciado who after the demise of his mother, travels to her hometown of Comala to find his father and happens to come across a ghost town populated by haunted figures.
El Llano en llamas (1953), a collection of short stories
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Set in Vienna on the eve of World War I around the time of Austro-Hungarian monarchy’s last days, this novel is now considered to be one of the most important modernist novels. It dissects various human themes and feelings.
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(Nobel Prize Winner-2010)
The story among a community of cadets in a military school in Lima. Llosa was so accurate in portraying the academy with the powerful social satire that it outraged the authorities of Peru, where thousands of copies of the novel were burnt publicly.
Never too Late to Read Classics
Books mentioned in this topic
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Ovid (other topics)
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