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Ebook Publishing > Self Publishing service Pronoun is closing

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message 1: by Luna (new)

Luna Claire (lunasaintclaire) | 39 comments Has anyone used the service Pronoun to publish and distribute their book?


message 2: by Luna (new)

Luna Claire (lunasaintclaire) | 39 comments Oh, by the way... if you can still work with Author Central (and be with Pronoun) Which I HOPE is permitted, then Author Central can solve your category problems for you because they have a more refined tool to "go in" with a "work around" and actually tweak that for you.


message 3: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments I'm also curious about this. They seem decent, but I'm curious about the royalty difference etc. Maybe I'll try one novel with them and see what the sales look like.


message 4: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 606 comments I don't see a place in Author Central where categories can be changed. This is something done through KDP as far as I know.

Publishing directly to KDP would enable you to track your sales in almost real time. This is an important feature so you can learn what promotional efforts are working for your book.


message 5: by Luna (new)

Luna Claire (lunasaintclaire) | 39 comments Marie wrote: "I don't see a place in Author Central where categories can be changed. This is something done through KDP as far as I know.

Publishing directly to KDP would enable you to track your sales in almo..."


Avery wrote: "Marie wrote: "I don't see a place in Author Central where categories can be changed."

It's one of those things you can call Author Central Support about. Like any change though, it takes 1 to 3 da..."


Rohvannyn wrote: "Luna wrote: "Thank you so much! I am relieved to know I can work with Author Central. But I "can't" remove my book from the existing retailer, and move to Pronoun because... Pronoun said they MUST ..."

Yes I have published my existing book directly with KDP. If you lower your price below 4.99 (or is it 3.99?) then you move from 70% royalty to $35% royalty --- With Pronoun all royalties are at 70% regardless of price point.


message 6: by Dwayne, Head of Lettuce (new)

Dwayne Fry | 4310 comments Mod
Just a reminder folks... bookwhacking is against the rules. This includes mentioning that your books is free and providing links to the book in question. Thanks.


message 7: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 606 comments Luna wrote: "Yes I have published my existing book directly with KDP. If you lower your price below 4.99 (or is it 3.99?) then you move from 70% royalty to $35% royalty --- With Pronoun all royalties are at 70% regardless of price point. "

For KDP the royalty rate is 70% for books 2.99 and up. I wonder how Pronoun is able to do the higher royalties with Amazon.


message 8: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments I just found an article from last year, in Forbes, about Pronoun. Quite interesting, especially considering the company's wide distribution across several channels. My question is the same as Forbes: how do they actually propose to make money, if they don't take any commission above what the distributors take? Either way, interesting information.

This is not a commercial link.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billrosen...


message 9: by Rohvannyn (last edited Jan 27, 2017 04:30PM) (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Okay, if anyone is interested I just signed up with Pronoun. I used my first fantasy novel. They let me do it, just fine, and they even had a spot to say "already on Amazon? put the link here."

So the way I have things set up, they list a link to my existing book and then handle the distribution through all the other channels.

The help files for how to format the book are awesome. The website is quick and responsive. I was very happy with my experience. If anyone has questions, feel free to PM me.


message 10: by Luna (new)

Luna Claire (lunasaintclaire) | 39 comments Rohvannyn wrote: "Okay, if anyone is interested I just signed up with Pronoun. I used my first fantasy novel. They let me do it, just fine, and they even had a spot to say "already on Amazon? put the link here."

S..."

Rohvannyn - How do I PM you? Since I don't know, please let me know if your URL changes. I had been email corresponding with Elissa Bernstein
Author Happiness Advocate, Pronoun
and she told me ALL of my URL's across all retailers would change. So any existing links to my book that exist in any media: blog tours, interviews, reviews in media and all existing social media posts that are out there would become dead links. I know the ISBN won't change but let me know if your ASIN number with Amazon changes and if the URL changes (that is built into the ASIN). She advised me that if I don't want dead links then to wait for the next book to use them.


message 11: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments I finally figured out how to PM. Go to the envelope icon at the top right of your screen and hit the little link marked "compose." Ha ha, took me forever to figure that out. Unfortunately, I didn't figure out how to successfully send to your name.


I think the link change will happen only if you decide to move your Amazon Kindle book to Pronoun and republish though them. I'll watch my link and see if it changes, but so far it hasn't and it's still with KDP. The nice thing is, all the other stuff is being distributed through the other retailers.

Here's how I did it:

When I had my book all set up and Pronoun asked me what retailers I wanted to use, I just unchecked the Amazon option. Then the site asked "if you already publish through Amazon, what's the link to your book?" I provided that link and they integrated it into the author page, then gave me a Pronoun ASIN for all the other retailers while keeping my KDP ASIN for the version that was already with KDP.

So, if you were to go to my book page on Pronoun, the Amazon link will lead to that version of the book, while clicking on the other links will lead to the Pronoun version that's now offered with the other retailers.

I hope I made that fairly understandable. I think it's incredibly cool, because all my existing links still will work, and I've just expanded my distribution immensely!


message 12: by Alex (new)

Alex (asato) Luna wrote: "Has anyone used the service Pronoun to publish and distribute their book?"

you're on the cutting edge!

Rohvannyn wrote: "Okay, if anyone is interested I just signed up with Pronoun. I used my first fantasy novel. They let me do it, just fine, and they even had a spot to say "already on Amazon? put the link here."

S..."


good job! take the bull by the horns. ^_-

just a couple of weeks ago, Jane Friedman had Q&A with Pronoun's head of Marketing:

https://janefriedman.com/pronoun-dist...

of particular relevance is:
"Today, Pronoun is announcing some significant changes to their terms, including:

70% royalty on ebooks sold through Amazon when the price is below $2.99 (standard is 35% if you sell direct to Amazon via KDP)
65% royalty on ebooks sold through Amazon when the price is beyond $9.99 (again, the standard is 35% if you sell direct to Amazon via KDP)
The ability to make ebooks free at any time through Amazon without being exclusive (not possible via KDP)
No requirement to be “all in” with Pronoun; you can use them to distribute to just one retailer, several, or all. It’s up to you."



message 13: by Alex (new)

Alex Carver | 770 comments I'm tempted by what I see of Pronoun so far but I'm in Select at the moment and I'm undecided about leaving it.
Thanks for the information provided, I look forward to seeing what else you guys can reveal about the service.


message 14: by Ken (new)

Ken (kendoyle) | 364 comments I keeping asking myself, "What's the catch?"

There is always one, I just haven't found it yet :) Admittedly, I haven't looked very hard, though.


message 15: by Alex (last edited Jan 30, 2017 07:25AM) (new)

Alex (asato) Jane Friedman 's article sheds light on the "catch". Their funding and other enterprise -level paying customers allow them to make this service free. Plus they want to catch independent authors w/ big sales w/ a contract before any other publisher.


message 16: by Steven (new)

Steven Bright (stevenbright) | 25 comments What is their payment methods? Is it only via PayPal or they accept bank accounts for EFT?


message 17: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Ken wrote: "I keeping asking myself, "What's the catch?"

There is always one, I just haven't found it yet :) Admittedly, I haven't looked very hard, though."


The only downside that I can see is that technically you can't be with Kindle Select, as that requires exclusivity, at the same time that you're with Pronoun. I may try making two different editions, one for Pronoun and one for Kindle Select, or I may not worry about it.

It's true, Pronoun is funded by other means such as ebook contracts with big corporations. However, not only do they get first chance at any hot new indie authors, but they also get a chance to learn from how readers react to our different books.


message 18: by Christina (new)

Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) Avery wrote: "Well, they must be displeased with me, as they're making nothing off of my novel, nor will they."

Well, if you decide not to use them for future books, they may drop your freebie, so keep that in mind.

Rohvannyn wrote: "I may try making two different editions, one for Pronoun and one for Kindle Select, or I may not worry about it. "

This would be a violation of KDP Select terms of service. They clearly state that they have the right to remove your books from Amazon entirely, not just the Select program should you be found in violation. I doubt it would be worth the risk.


message 19: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Christina wrote: "This would be a violation of KDP Select terms of service. They clearly state that they have the right to remove your books from Amazon entirely, not just the Select program should you be found in violation. I doubt it would be worth the risk."



Hm... even for different editions? Well, I'll keep that in mind, and it's a good point.


message 20: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments I disenrolled my book from KDP select and submitted it to Pronoun. They noticed it still had a few days left on Select and said basically to resubmit when the term had run out. No harm, no foul, and all my typesetting and prep work for the book is saved so I can resubmit with just one click of a button.

I am very happy how they handled it, and wanted to let everyone know what really happens when you try to submit something already enrolled in Select.


message 21: by Riley, Viking Extraordinaire (new)

Riley Amos Westbrook (sonshinegreene) | 1510 comments Mod
Rohvannyn wrote: "I disenrolled my book from KDP select and submitted it to Pronoun. They noticed it still had a few days left on Select and said basically to resubmit when the term had run out. No harm, no foul, an..."

Thanks for the heads up Rohvannyn, glad to see updates on what you think of the service.


message 22: by Owen (new)

Owen O'Neill (owen_r_oneill) | 1509 comments Rohvannyn wrote: "The only downside that I can see is that technically you can't be with Kindle Select, as that requires exclusivity, at the same time that you're with Pronoun. ..."

This could be a significant downside. What Pronoun is doing looks rather like a bet against KU. KU has been gaining ground steadily with readers. That is a large revenue source authors are cutting themselves off from going with Pronoun. It will be interesting to see how Pronoun competes with that.


message 23: by Owen (new)

Owen O'Neill (owen_r_oneill) | 1509 comments Rohvannyn wrote: "Hm... even for different editions? Well, I'll keep that in mind, and it's a good point. ..."

Yes, even different editions of the eBook. You can't even make excerpts of the book available elsewhere on-line beyond what Amazon offers in their look-inside feature: that is, the first 10%.


message 24: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Owen wrote: "Rohvannyn wrote: "The only downside that I can see is that technically you can't be with Kindle Select, as that requires exclusivity, at the same time that you're with Pronoun. ..."

This could be ..."


So far, so good. I totally agree that not having access to Kindle Unlimited is a pain, so there are definitely books that I am going to have on there exclusively and others I'll have on Pronoun.

The good thing is, if I decide to start with Pronoun and then later take the book off there, I could still go to KU afterwards. Or vice versa. I just can't do it simultaneously.

Personally, I'm probably going to keep my novels on Pronoun but have short stories on KU. I really don't make that much off KU so this will work for me.


message 25: by Alex (last edited Feb 07, 2017 08:10PM) (new)

Alex (asato) Owen wrote: "Rohvannyn wrote: "The only downside that I can see is that technically you can't be with Kindle Select, as that requires exclusivity, at the same time that you're with Pronoun. ..."

This could be ..."


definitely if you're in romance, then your earnings are much greater if you're in KDP Select; however, it is possible for other genres that that the advantage of KDP Select isn't as stark. (i don't know as I haven't looked at the raw authorearnings.com data for the genres.)


(http://authorearnings.com/2016-rwa-pa...)


message 26: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Alex G wrote: "Owen wrote: "Rohvannyn wrote: "The only downside that I can see is that technically you can't be with Kindle Select, as that requires exclusivity, at the same time that you're with Pronoun. ..."

T..."

Ooo! Interesting graphic. Thanks! I don't really write romance, but stick to traditional fantasy, modern fantasy, and sci fi. So I think I might do all right.


message 27: by Christina (last edited Aug 15, 2017 08:09AM) (new)

Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) Hey folks, reviving this topic as Pronoun came up in the promo thread. I've removed some irrelevant info and replies that seem to address a member who has deleted their posts.

Please note: there are links here because we didn't have a flat ban at the time this post was made. We're leaving them because they contain good info, but please do not add links now.

Couple of questions from me after looking at their site:

•Are they still not taking any commission out of royalties?

•How do they handle promo pricing? Would someone whose book is not permafree be able to easily change their price to free across several platforms for a temporary sale? And for that matter, how quickly can they change back? (I'm thinking Book Bub here, can it be done?)

•Is anyone here published under their imprints? If so, was that something they set up or did you have to submit separately?


message 28: by Angela (new)

Angela Maher (angelajmaher) | 43 comments I've started using Pronoun and I'm happy with them.

Pricing: You can change the price of your book at any time, and can adjust it to a degree depending on territory. I don't know how long a change would take to come into effect, but you set your price and it applies to all retailers.


message 29: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan I recently did a promo for a book on both Pronoun and Amazon (started in KDP Select and I haven't decided yet whether I want to go all in with pronoun), and changing prices was quick and effective at both sites.


message 30: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan My number one issue with Pronoun is they do not support the ePUB formating that I'm after.

My Amazon books are formatted to perfection. Pronoun mangle some elements...

It's cosmetic, but annoying.


message 31: by Alex (new)

Alex Carver | 770 comments Pronoun continue not to take any commission from royalties.

The royalty rate varies depending on site and region, which is a little annoying, but the minimum you get is 40% for Amazon UK, so if your book is priced under 2.99 you would be better off through Pronoun than through KDP.

They offer suggestions for both categories and keywords when setting your novel up, and provide limited demographics on both the frequency of keywords being searched and the likelihood of your book ranking high in those search results.
They also show you a chart indicating average rank for books in your chosen genre/category at various price points to help you decide on pricing strategy.
I have not used the chart to set prices myself, I have my own pricing strategy I am following, but I have seen it and it is useful information.


message 32: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Siegrist (amandasiegrist) | 190 comments Commenting to follow this thread. I got curious when I saw your tweets about it Christina!


message 33: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan Graeme wrote: "My number one issue with Pronoun is they do not support the ePUB formating that I'm after.

My Amazon books are formatted to perfection. Pronoun mangle some elements...

It's cosmetic, but annoying."


Okay - just worked this out. Pronoun can't handle text with underscores. Take the underscores out and it's better.


message 34: by Angela (new)

Angela Joseph | 132 comments This is very helpful information. I'm planning to move my first book from KDP select now that my second book is being released. Good to know there's little to worry about except maybe the formatting.


message 35: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan Hi Angela, if your formatting is simple, you should be ok.

I have little pieces of epistolary text at the head of each chapter and it confuses their .docx to .epub transformer.


message 36: by Melody (new)

Melody Bremen (melodyjbremen) | 11 comments I've been using Pronoun, and I'm really happy so far. They have some cool features, like they make your book available to Overdrive, which means it could get into libraries.
They also send you an email when you could switch your category to something that will get a better ranking. (The category suggestions are not always on the mark, but sometimes are really helpful.)


message 37: by Angela (new)

Angela Maher (angelajmaher) | 43 comments CeDany wrote: "Well, I hate to burst the proverbial bubble... However, I've found two major catches with Pronoun..

Firstly, and foremost, it's an American company. This means the hassle if loads of expensive pho..."


If you want to distribute indie books, it's next to impossible to find a company that isn't American. If your country has a tax treaty with the US, you can recoup the extra tax at tax time (as advised by my accountant) if you don't want to do the paperwork.

Author Central is the portal to create and manage your Amazon author page.

Author DB is a database. You add your details, and your books with buy links. It's not a site you can publish through. I joined and have seen zero benefit.


message 38: by J. (new)

J. Saman | 97 comments I have 2 of my 5 books published on Pronoun. There are some things I like about them and some things I don't. I love that I can change my price whenever I want and still earn 70%. I like that I can also put my books up on other sites for promotions like Instafreebie and BookFunnel. They're also very responsive to my emails.

Things I don't like... it takes a few days to see sales (I get why, but still annoying) and occasionally, those sales are off by a day or two, which is irritating when you're trying to figure out which paid promotions work and which don't.

As mentioned above, you also don't get the option to pick and choose which sites you want your books on. You get all of them and if you don't want Amazon or another one, you're SOL. For me, I don't care so much, but if you do, then they're definitely not the people for you.

As for the tax stuff... sorry, I'm no help there.


message 39: by Christina (new)

Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) As mentioned above, you also don't get the option to pick and choose which sites you want your books on. You get all of them and if you don't want Amazon or another one, you're SOL."

I thought that you had the option to select which retailers you wanted. I do know that you have to be published with Amazon, but you don't have to have Pronoun do that distribution. I assumed this meant if I don't want my books through iTunes, I can simply uncheck them.

I've got a short story that I'm taking out of Select that I was planning to go all in with Pronoun on just to see how it shakes down. When my series comes out later in the year, I was planning to keep them all on Amazon and have a distributor handle the rest.


message 40: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 606 comments I am considering publishing one of my books to pronoun and I have some questions:

1. About how long does it take from the time you publish to the time that books are available at the online retailers?

2. Can you see specifically which books are being sold with which retailer?

3. How long after sales are royalties paid?

4. Do reviews stay with the book if it was already published before pronoun?

Thank you!


message 41: by J. (new)

J. Saman | 97 comments I don't know about that Christina. You might be able to do it that way and I just missed it. I do know for a fact that you have to do Amazon. Not sure about being able to opt out of the others, but that's something I think I'll look into for curiosity sake.

Royalties are paid once a month (same as the Zon) but they go straight to your paypal account and I didn't get any of my royalties until almost 2 months later because I started the beginning of May and for May, I didn't get paid until beginning of July.

It took only a couple of days for my books to show up on the various sites. Amazon was first and then iBooks I think. B&N might have been last if I recall correctly. You can see your books online through the various sites before they show up on Pronoun as active, but that doesn't take too long either.

My reviews took only a couple of days to cross over. I was really worried about that too since I moved one of my old books over. I had emailed someone there and she said that it usually does it automatically, but if they weren't up within 5 days to email her again and she'd take care of it for me. I never needed to email her though as it all went through without an issue.

I didn't mention above but one of the nice things about Pronoun is that you create an author page. It's also very easy to create your book with them. They also give you suggestions for categories and keywords based on accessibility/popularity. Like Romance (which is what I write) is 1/100. Meaning it's very popular and as a result, I'd basically have no visibility if that's the keyword I chose. But when I went with "falling for her best friend's brother" it was like 60/85 - which to me seemed pretty good. You can play around with them and they even give you suggestions depending on your category.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you any other questions!!


message 42: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 606 comments Thank you J, that is very helpful!


message 43: by Alex (new)

Alex Carver | 770 comments You need to have your book available on Amazon, whether you publish to there through Pronoun or simply provide a link to it on Amazon, beyond that you can pick and choose the other sites.

Royalties are paid approximately 60 days after the end of the month.

On the reports pages they show both which retailer a sale comes from and which territory for that retailer, I really like it because it tells me while I've had sales mostly in the big English speaking countries, my free titles have been downloaded in some unexpected countries.

My only complaint with reporting is B&N don't report free downloads (their issue not Pronoun's) and you can't see month to date sales, only past month sales, which irks me a little.


message 44: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 606 comments Really appreciate the info, Alex! Thank you!

Do you know anything about how rank works? Do you start at the bottom somewhere or is rank where you left off in the Amazon store?


message 45: by J. (new)

J. Saman | 97 comments Marie Silk wrote: "Really appreciate the info, Alex! Thank you!

Do you know anything about how rank works? Do you start at the bottom somewhere or is rank where you left off in the Amazon store?"


Alex was way more precise than I was ; )
Yes, you still have an Amazon rank that correlates with Pronoun. I have no idea if the rank picks up where it left off. I doubt it though, because you have to remove your book from Amazon before you can post it on Pronoun.


message 46: by Alex (new)

Alex Carver | 770 comments You're welcome, happy to be able to help out with my knowledge.

I have heard (anecdotal evidence only) that if you speak to both Amazon and Pronoun you can arrange it so that you maintain rank when switching from distribution via KDP to through Pronoun but it's not something I'd want to risk.
I had to switch my distribution and I lost my rank, had to start from scratch.


message 47: by Ben (new)

Ben Jackson | 86 comments I emailed them to ask a few questions today. I just pulled all my children's books out of kindle unlimited so this could be an option.


message 48: by Ben (new)

Ben Jackson | 86 comments Also Alex, if you have your books on Kindle unlimited and want them to stay on Amazon kindle I think you can just choose not to list them with them? Is that what you're talking about?


message 49: by Christina (new)

Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) Ben wrote: "Also Alex, if you have your books on Kindle unlimited and want them to stay on Amazon kindle I think you can just choose not to list them with them? Is that what you're talking about?"

Your books can only be listed in Kindle unlimited if you are exclusive to KDP Select. If you are in select and list your book's elsewhere, Amazon may suspend your account and remove all of your titles.


message 50: by Ben (new)

Ben Jackson | 86 comments Yep, I meant that if you have your books in kindle unlimited, but choose not to review it, they'll still be listed on Amazon afterwards. You can then list them anywhere you want, you wouldn't lose your rank etc.


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