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message 1: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 05:12AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Trump and Hitler: Drawing a parallelism: Where do the similarities begin and stop or does it not?


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Mehreen wrote: "Trump and Hitler: Where do the similarities end or does it not?"

Jingoism, xenophobia, ultra-patriotism.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Not to mention letting supporters turn on hecklers at rallies, having supporters raise their hands in solidarity, being praised for "telling it like it is" although the political elite mocked him for being an outsider. Scary stuff.


message 4: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Trump and Hitler: Where do the similarities end or does it not?"

Jingoism, xenophobia, ultra-patriotism."


Neo-fascism.


message 5: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13825 comments I certainly hope there are no similarities and besides, how can anyone know at this stage? But the probationary period has already started, so soon we'd be able to judge deeds and not words.....
Extremists support him, but does he support extremists?

Illegal immigration from Mexico? Well, as long as it's illegal...

Muslim terror? There is such thing and it's pretty dangerous.

Trump and women? How about Kennedy?

Is he a likable guy? Doesn't look so. May even make an impression of a scandalous dude.

There are lots of questions, hope when the answers arrive they'll alleviate some fears and suspicions. I argue - it's simply too early to arrive at conclusions...


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Nik wrote: "I certainly hope there are no similarities and besides, how can anyone know at this stage? But the probationary period has already started, so soon we'd be able to judge deeds and not words.....
Ex..."


Not all Muslims are a terrorist threat. Profiling is dangerous. That and Kennedy's indiscretions did not come to the public attention until after his death so not a great comparison. What Trump's been accused of is not womanizing - it's actually sexual battery. Big difference.


message 7: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 05:25AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "Nik wrote: "I certainly hope there are no similarities and besides, how can anyone know at this stage? But the probationary period has already started, so soon we'd be able to judge deeds and not w..."

Yeah. Sexual battery, I'd say and not all Muslims are a threat. Trumps speeches echo those of Hitler's hate speeches to exterminate the Jewish people which is a worry.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments To be clear, I don't foresee a Hitler regime for a multitude of reasons but it's not because Trump isn't despicable lol.


message 9: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13825 comments Tara wrote: "Not all Muslims are a terrorist threat. Profiling is dangerous. That and Kennedy's indiscretions did not come to the public attention until after his death so not a great comparison. What Trump's been accused of is not womanizing - it's actually sexual battery. Big difference...."

Of course, not. But somebody needs to take responsibility for people's security and somehow find those who pose threat and make sure they don't. There is no difference whether it might be from religious militant fanatics or Russian mafia. Profiling might be going on unannounced as we speak here.
Revelations about Kennedy didn't seem to mar his image though...-:)
Accusations are not court verdicts, but as I understand some suits are still ongoing and we'll probably know more...


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Nik wrote: "Tara wrote: "Not all Muslims are a terrorist threat. Profiling is dangerous. That and Kennedy's indiscretions did not come to the public attention until after his death so not a great comparison. W..."

It's almost impossible to overstate the legacy of the Kennedy years and the level of his hero worship in America, deserved or mot. No tales of adultery twenty years after the fact were ever going to destroy that for three generations of Americans.

Agree that with Trump they are only allegations - just clarifying that we don't want to dismiss sexual assault with mere womanizing.


message 11: by Mike (new)

Mike | 181 comments One of the main differences I see is that Hitler was a true ideologue. Trump, it seems to me, has no true convictions about anything, although he will try to adopt and use any ideology that's convenient to him.


message 12: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13825 comments Tara wrote: "Agree that with Trump they are only allegations - just clarifying that we don't want to dismiss sexual assault with mere womanizing. ..."

About dozen complaints describing similar pattern do raise serious question as to the dude, but at this stage - still allegations...

Don't know whether I remember it correctly and how fact-based was the movie about Kennedy and some intern or secretary, but, if true, manipulating a subordinate into an unwanted sexual relation with someone else might have had a different interpretation today


message 13: by Michel (last edited Jan 22, 2017 08:51AM) (new)

Michel Poulin I don't like Trump, but comparing him to Hitler is way over the top. Hitler DID order people to their deaths, by the millions! Trump may be a vain, narcissistic, mysogynistic bigot, but he is not a murderer, nor has he called for the massacre of whole groups of people.


message 14: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13825 comments Michel wrote: "I don't like Trump, but comparing him to Hitler is way over the top. Hitler DID"

I feel the same and I hope there never will be any parallel.
I can understand the worries though and ppl's desire to be able to recognize and stop anyone capable of doing what hitler did


message 15: by Mike (new)

Mike | 181 comments agreed, but I do think Trump is capable of almost anything. i'd be happy to be proven wrong.


message 16: by Mike (new)

Mike | 181 comments https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/bo...

This article seems like it could easily have been written about Trump.

"Hitler was often described as an egomaniac who “only loved himself” — a narcissist with a taste for self-dramatization and what Mr. Ullrich calls a “characteristic fondness for superlatives.”...

...A former finance minister wrote that Hitler “was so thoroughly untruthful that he could no longer recognize the difference between lies and truth” and editors of one edition of “Mein Kampf” described it as a “swamp of lies, distortions, innuendoes, half-truths and real facts...

...he specialized in big, theatrical rallies staged with spectacular elements borrowed from the circus. Here, “Hitler adapted the content of his speeches to suit the tastes of his lower-middle-class, nationalist-conservative, ethnic-chauvinist and anti-Semitic listeners,” Mr. Ullrich writes. He peppered his speeches with coarse phrases and put-downs of hecklers. Even as he fomented chaos by playing to crowds’ fears and resentments, he offered himself as the visionary leader who could restore law and order.

...Hitler’s ascension was aided and abetted by the naïveté of domestic adversaries who failed to appreciate his ruthlessness and tenacity, and by foreign statesmen who believed they could control his aggression. Early on, revulsion at Hitler’s style and appearance, Mr. Ullrich writes, led some critics to underestimate the man and his popularity, while others dismissed him as a celebrity, a repellent but fascinating “evening’s entertainment.”..."


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Nik wrote: "Tara wrote: "Agree that with Trump they are only allegations - just clarifying that we don't want to dismiss sexual assault with mere womanizing. ..."

About dozen complaints describing similar pat..."


Water under the bridge :)


message 18: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "To be clear, I don't foresee a Hitler regime for a multitude of reasons but it's not because Trump isn't despicable lol."

I do hope you are right.


message 19: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 05:03PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Mike wrote: "https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/bo...

This article seems like it could easily have been written about Trump.

"Hitler was often described as an egomaniac who “..."


That is correct and we also know that history has a tendency to repeat itself. Trump has shown pretty much all the signs of a demagogue.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Michel wrote: "I don't like Trump, but comparing him to Hitler is way over the top. Hitler DID order people to their deaths, by the millions! Trump may be a vain, narcissistic, mysogynistic bigot, but he is not a..."

I agree but these are idealogical comparisons, not commentary about how likely it is that Trump would follow in Hitler's footsteps. I don't think many people actually believe he will be the next Hitler and commit genocide. But Trump's thought process runs dangerously close to promoting the sort of nasty political and national extremism that made a Hitler even possible.


message 21: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 07:15PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Many have commented that 1940 Germany is not present day USA. But that notwithstanding, any kind of foolhardiness on the part of a bigot leader could lead to genocide. Trump's ideologies are formed out of the war on terror mainly and the economic recessions in the USA.


message 22: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 211 comments Mehreen wrote: "Hitler's ideology was formed by WW2 and other political issues of the day. 1940 Germany is not present day USA. But that notwithstanding, any kind of foolhardiness on the part of a bigot leader can..."

What? You seem to have cause and effect reversed here. Hitler's ideology was formed during his rise to power in the 1930s. It was not formed by WW2, it resulted in WW2.


message 23: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin One thing that I think Trump of being capable of is to use nuclear weapons against ISIS, possibly by vaporising Raqa, the 'capital' of ISIS in Syria. Trump seems impulsive and shallow-thinking enough to take such a decision, plus he clearly has a strong bias against Muslims. His National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn, is a hard-right, bigoted man who despises Muslims and who would have little or no remorse in counseling such a nuclear strike. I hope that I am wrong about this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it would happen. Against what he perceives as a dangerous enemy of the U.S.A., Trump would have the mindset to be ready to go nuclear.


message 24: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 06:02PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian Yeah sorry that wasn't very well articulated. I meant the Nazi ideology was formulated "In the wake of WW1, Nazi ideology was developed by intense nationalists whose only interests were the future of Germany and German-speaking Aryan people. The Nazis had no interest in starting an international movement, exporting their ideas to other countries or changing the world outside mainland Europe. Their chief concern was the restoration of German economic and military supremacy."


message 25: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Uh, Mehreen, you forgot about Hitler's obsession with 'Lebensraum' (living space in German), which was used as a motto to justify invading the rest of Europe. The Nazis actually encouraged and supported fascist or pro-fascist movements in other countries in the 1930s (including 'The Bund' in the U.S.A.). Also, the Nazi ideology was not only intensely nationalist, it was also intensely racist and anti-semitic and eventually resulted in the genocide against the Jews of Europe. The chief concern of the Nazis was to eventually have the whole of Europe under their boot.


message 26: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 211 comments Mehreen wrote: "Ian Yeah sorry that wasn't very well articulated. I meant the Nazi ideology was formulated "In the wake of WW1, Nazi ideology was developed by intense nationalists whose only interests were the fut..."

Ah, yes, that's more like it. And agreed there are a lot of differences between the two countries and the contexts they found themselves in. Early 20th century Germany is not early 21st century USA. But there are also many scary similarities, particularly the extreme nationalism and racism, and the targeting of specific groups in their own countries as being the source of all their woes. And the scary thing is it's those aspects that eventually enabled the extreme actions we saw last century.


message 27: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 09:11PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Michel wrote: "Uh, Mehreen, you forgot about Hitler's obsession with 'Lebensraum' (living space in German), which was used as a motto to justify invading the rest of Europe. The Nazis actually encouraged and supp..."

Yes. That too. Thanks Michel. Not to mention his affairs with underaged girls, specially his niece. That was also condoned.


message 28: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Ian Yeah sorry that wasn't very well articulated. I meant the Nazi ideology was formulated "In the wake of WW1, Nazi ideology was developed by intense nationalists whose only intere..."

I mean who in the right mind can think that such idealisms would work in the first place? There is a limit to even being deluded?


message 29: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Like the old saying goes, 'the larger the crowd, the lower the collective I.Q.'. If Trump sees that the crowds swallow his outrageous statements, he will only be encouraged to utter more of the same.


message 30: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 211 comments Michel wrote: "Like the old saying goes, 'the larger the crowd, the lower the collective I.Q.'. If Trump sees that the crowds swallow his outrageous statements, he will only be encouraged to utter more of the same."

Firstly, he needs no encouragement, and secondly, there's no "if" in this equation. His crowds of supporters have been swallowing his claims right through the campaign blithely untroubled by troublesome facts.


message 31: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian wrote: "Michel wrote: "Like the old saying goes, 'the larger the crowd, the lower the collective I.Q.'. If Trump sees that the crowds swallow his outrageous statements, he will only be encouraged to utter ..."

Hitler's crowd was just as gullible. However, one would be expected to learn from history so a repetition didn't occur. But I guess that wasn't going to be the case clearly.


message 32: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Mehreen, sadly I have to say that Humanity clearly is not learning from history. If it would have done so, then we would be rid of wars by now.


message 33: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Michel wrote: "Mehreen, sadly I have to say that Humanity clearly is not learning from history. If it would have done so, then we would be rid of wars by now."

True, it won't happen anytime soon anyway.


message 34: by Philip (new)

Philip (phenweb) | 0 comments I just did a mini-blog on this as Nik has reminded me about this discussion. I make no comparisons except democratic vote and willingness to impose decrees.


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