World, Writing, Wealth discussion

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message 1: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Probably one of the most controversial concepts, banned in many countries and not banned in many others.
While it's based on identical genotype, the phenotype might differ.
If to take our fellow mammals, as far as I understand Dolly the sheep lived a seemingly happy live, gave birth to lambs, got ill and died as a result of euthanasia.
What's your view on this? Can you think of situs where you'd want a clone?


message 2: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments In the case of an anomaly perhaps. But not to populate the world with clones as such.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments It absolutely makes no sense to me. Sure, the science is fascinating but what are the benefits?


message 4: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 19, 2017 02:28AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "It absolutely makes no sense to me. Sure, the science is fascinating but what are the benefits?"

It has not been brought to light conclusively yet to suggest that cloning is a necessity. So yeah, I agree with you there unless in the case of an emergency where an anomaly has taken place. The science is there and fiction has been written on it and movies have been made. But that's about it, I'm afraid.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Mehreen wrote: "Tara wrote: "It absolutely makes no sense to me. Sure, the science is fascinating but what are the benefits?"

It has not been brought to light conclusively yet to suggest that cloning is a necessi..."


What kind of emergencies could they be?


message 6: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 12:43AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Tara wrote: "It absolutely makes no sense to me. Sure, the science is fascinating but what are the benefits?"

It has not been brought to light conclusively yet to suggest that clon..."


Hypothetically speaking an emergency could be a typical case of a bone marrow transplant. Cloning has been found beneficial in stem cell research. In a situation where a patient might need an emergency bone marrow transplant, cloning could be used as a possible solution to create stem cells that are genetically identical to an individual as opposed to person to person transfer.

In a nutshell, cloning can also repair body tissues and so on. Research is underway to cure some genetic problems; diseases through cloning of body organs and medical anomaly.


message 7: by Matthew (new)

Matthew Williams (houseofwilliams) Thanks to bioprinting, we should be able to create bone marrow and other organic tissues based on donor DNA in the coming years. This would circumvent the need for cloning and entire human being.


message 8: by Ian (last edited Jan 19, 2017 02:14PM) (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments With 3D printing coming, I see no need. Also, I see no need to clone. It is not as if the planet is short of people.


message 9: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 19, 2017 07:11PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian wrote: "With 3D printing coming, I see no need. Also, I see no need to clone. It is not as if the planet is short of people."

yes. I agree with that. No need for cloning to populate the world as I also mentioned above and it will never happen either; that's more in the realm of "hard"- SF I am guessing, but for other medical needs stem cell research maybe useful.


message 10: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments When somebody tragically dies, sometimes family donates his/her organs to medicine or implantation. Apart from obvious motivation of helping others, maybe some see that if an organ from their loved one 'lives' within another body, then their loved one sort of still 'lives'.
I heard that some use semen of a young man, if something happened to him, to have his child born.
What about reconstructing someone instead of the one who tragically died? Wouldn't it be like a victory over death?


message 11: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "When somebody tragically dies, sometimes family donates his/her organs to medicine or implantation. Apart from obvious motivation of helping others, maybe some see that if an organ from their loved..."

Yes of course It would be.


message 12: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments I doubt you could reconstruct the dead and get the same person - the memories and the experience would have degraded to nothing and if you succeeded you would probably have someone having to start all over again.


message 13: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Much like having a twin, and that's all.


message 14: by Jen Pattison (new)

Jen Pattison | 409 comments I think that one of me is enough!


message 15: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost.


message 16: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian wrote: "I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost."

Yeah a zombie-like existence i'm thinking.


message 17: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments The problem with cloning, you take on the age of life at maturity at the moment of the parent's donated cell. They learned this through cloning the first sheep, Dolly. When the lamb grew to maturity, it was the age of its parent; as I remember reading articles on Dolly the sheep. Not too good. But using cloning as a way of repairing is a good thing.


message 18: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments GR wrote: "The problem with cloning, you take on the age of life at maturity at the moment of the parent's donated cell. They learned this through cloning the first sheep, Dolly. When the lamb grew to maturit..."

That's brilliant!


message 19: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Ian wrote: "I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost."

A dilemma, especially since no one knows how clone will turn out. Biologically should be exactly same replica, but likely a different person.
Some silly accident, say, an icicle killed a kid - what if parents are given an option to have a clone?
Would the humankind benefit from Mozart's or Einstein's clone and would a clone develop same talents?


message 20: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost."

A dilemma, especially since no one knows how clone will tu..."


I would clone my dear ones if I had that option for sure. However, If I find them any different, then I wouldn't know what to do.


message 21: by GR (last edited Jan 22, 2017 08:05AM) (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost."

A dilemma, especially since no one knows how clone will tu..."


I think this is where Frankenstein comes in. Take a look at my book: Let's Clone it! It has a better ending.


message 22: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Seen it on Lulu, looks interesting! Didn't know you were a cloning expert -:)


message 23: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "I don't think you would want to clone something dead, surely. It would be like making a perpetual reminder, a walking ghost."

A dilemma, especially since no one knows how clone will tu..."


My guess is a clone might have latent ability, and we know Mozart's relations were good with music, but nowhere like Wolfgang. But also, if you look at his music and stop making allowances for age, the early stuff is not that special. I think experience is also critical and you cannot clone that, and the late Mozart's music is immensely better than the early music.


message 24: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Masi wrote: "I always thought this about human cloning. You make the clone that looks exactly like you. Then have a system when you die, the memories and your way of thinking and everything stored in your mind ..."

The problem is, the clone is your age. If you died of old age, so would the clone. As far as I am aware, there is no way to transfer brain patterns from the dead because the brain patterns and their chemicals start to degrade on death in accord with the second law of thermodynamics.


message 25: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Ian wrote: "My guess is a clone might have latent ability, and we know Mozart's relations were good with music..."

Then you know you have a prodigy from the very beginning and can arguably develop this known latent talent early on, really hone it and maybe have a mega-Mozart!


message 26: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Masi wrote: "I always thought this about human cloning. You make the clone that looks exactly like you. Then have a system when you die, the memories and your way of thinking and everything stored in your mind ..."

The thing is, at least how it looks to me - a clone should be just a human being (like Dolly was just a sheep) - not an external hard-disc and s/he might not want to obtain memories of the prototype, but rather gather his/her own -:)


message 27: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "My guess is a clone might have latent ability, and we know Mozart's relations were good with music..."

Then you know you have a prodigy from the very beginning and can arguably develop..."


Nope, you don't know you have a prodigy. What you have is someone that is effectively 35 yr old but a baby, and with none of the atmosphere that Mozart lived with, such as a really pushy Leopold, AND no distractions. Since it took almost 30 yrs for Mozart to really reach top form, he is effectively 65. I am not sure that would be an asset. But also, it is most unlikely the young close could have the necessary background. And why would the clone be any better than his sister? I don't think genius quite works like "You are born with it." You certainly need the capacity from your genes, but I think there is an awful lot more to it.


message 28: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Well, you don't know you have a prodigy, but you know that an exactly same organism was one. And if you focus specifically on a 'suspected' predisposition, thus jumpstarting and developing it, I guess - the chance is there. Not that we've seen clones yet-:) Now whether Mozart 2 is better than Mozart 1 is not important. If we have someone of a comparable caliber - it's already great.
Don't know whether twins or siblings are representative - sometimes they are, sometimes - aren't . Probably Williams sisters, Klitchko brothers, Polgar sisters, Sherlock Holmes and his brother - Mycroft, can be supportive -:)


message 29: by Mehreen (last edited Jan 22, 2017 04:58PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Has there been any other cloning to date, since "Dolly?"


message 30: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Nik wrote: "Seen it on Lulu, looks interesting! Didn't know you were a cloning expert -:)"

I did some research, just some.


message 31: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments The problem with a clone is it isn't the same person as the parent. Take for instance a twin. 2 different people, same bio; different thoughts, different motivations, different results from Q and A. And I suspect, 2 different souls. So, a second Mozart may not end up as a musical genius. He may end up a super freeloader: living off his faux reputation.


message 32: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments If you ask me, I'd clone Conan Doyle, Alex Dumas or Jules Verne in hope to have a little bit more of their stories -:) Selfish, I know. What about you?


message 33: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments My guess is, Conan Doyle et al would not want to be cloned. I would not want to be cloned. (Remember, the clone is not you - merely someone else with your genetic makeup.)


message 34: by J.N. (new)

J.N. Bedout (jndebedout) | 104 comments Criminals would want to clone themselves. They can say, "Hey, look over there, see? That was 'me'. Therefore, I did not do it, your honor."

An instant alibi.

And an instant patsy. If they gonna grab somebody, let them take your clone.


message 35: by Ian (last edited Dec 07, 2017 05:27PM) (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Hmmm - how would that work in a novel? Would the reviewers slam it???


message 36: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5352 comments Hadn't thought about that from the point of view of a criminal mind, J.N.

I think Jules Verne might be OK with it.

I don't know much about cloning. If a clone were made from me at my current age, would the clone also be my current age, with all my physical aches and pains?


message 37: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Scout, as far as I know, the cells would be the same age, but if they cloned from stem cells, they might get younger organs.


message 38: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5352 comments So, theoretically, if I were rich and sick, I might be able to clone a more healthy organism from which I could procure replacement body parts. Emphasis on sick.


message 39: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Yes, but if they can get hold of stem cells, I believe they are on the verge of offering to make fresh organs to replace what is not working. They don't have to make another person, and more to the point, they don't have to wait for it to grow up.


message 40: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5352 comments Sounds like there's a lot to talk about there.


message 41: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Synthetic organs should be hotter than bitcoin


message 42: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments Nik wrote: "Synthetic organs should be hotter than bitcoin"

Since there is a standard procedure to make them as required, I would hope there is a reasonably stable price. Also, since they can only be used on the owner of the stem cells, and close relatives, the scope for a bubble is somewhat less 😄


message 43: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan I heard somewhere that death row prisoners in China are being fast-tracked to provide organs on demand.

I don't have evidence to hand could just be a rumour.


message 44: by Swapan (new)

Swapan Sutradhar (swapanly) | 2 comments Human cloning practice is a direct threat to the human diversity in the natural arena. Not ethical, in my opinion.


message 45: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Swapan wrote: "Human cloning practice is a direct threat to the human diversity in the natural arena. Not ethical, in my opinion."

Hi Swapan and welcome,

Yeah, cloning results in an entire bunch of question on ethical, philosophical, legal, social and other levels and affects notions of personality, (self) - identification, (im)mortality and many more..


message 46: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5352 comments So, can one clone a liver from one's cells?


message 47: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13518 comments Scout wrote: "So, can one clone a liver from one's cells?"

If to believe what one can find on the web, yes: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/cloned...


message 48: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments It would be better to get someone else to do it though. Anyone recall an episode of "The Nick" when this guy did surgery on himself? Not recommended, even if all the others are poorer surgeons.


message 49: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5352 comments Well, duh. Performing surgery on yourself sounds like a really bad idea.

A clone of a body is just a thing, unless a mind can be transferred somehow into the body. Will this be a possibility?


message 50: by Ian (last edited Dec 21, 2017 12:40AM) (new)

Ian Miller | 9521 comments In one of my science fiction books, yes! The problem is, of course, the clone has to be the same age and the brain exactly the same size. (The clone having to be the same age might be problematic for those wanting to live forever - the clone will only live as long as you would have, leaving aside accidents and illness.) At that point you could map the electron configuration from one to the other (in theory, or in science fiction - in practice that would be extremely difficult because how do you scan every electric and chemical potential in a brain?) It would be just like faxing - except a lot more complicated, but the principle is, you scan one and imprint the scan on the other.


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