Blasphemy!

[RandomAnthony]

Nah, you're not. You housesit hermit crabs. That's cool.

[Sally, la reina]

<>Feels regret about stifling Tad's creative urge<>

[RandomAnthony]

I love Nervous Breakdown. I know you have my back, Tad. You're just smart enough to stay out of this type of thing.

[Sally, la reina]

He says, wielding his wooden sword at the magnificent, colored flying dragons...

[Heather]

Okay, I'm confused. You posted an article that basically states that Nirvana was the ringleader of the Grunge movement, you also say that Nirvana has merit, and yet you can't say that they are the voice of a generation. Not all generations, but one. Why?

[RandomAnthony]

http://www.toymania.com/columns/spotl...

[Sally, la reina]

*settles in with popcorn to let Heather finish RA off*

[Sally, la reina]

And why am I "forbidden 403" from entering that site?

[Sally, la reina]

Did we crash it?

[Heather]

I'm forbidden too ;(. I don't like being forbidden to do things...

[RandomAnthony]

Here's a different pic, same idea:

http://www.blogwaybaby.com/Black%20Kn...

[Heidi]

Stubbornass.


(not that I have any room to judge seeing as I'm a loser who gets THE MISFITS mixed with THE RUNAWAYS)

[Heather]

What does Monty Python have to do with Nirvana...

[Matt]

It's all good Heidi, we still think you are awesome!

[RandomAnthony]

Heather wrote: "Okay, I'm confused. You posted an article that basically states that Nirvana was the ringleader of the Grunge movement, you also say that Nirvana has merit, and yet you can't say that they are the ..."

Wow. I almost don't know what to say about this. I'm just answering your questions, Heather. There'e a huge gulf between "merit" and "voice of the generation". You asked to whom I gave credit for the grunge movement, and I posted some links on grunge history. I wouldn't use the word "ringleader" myself because I'm not sure what that means in this context. As for the "voice of a generation", how would you define that term? Define it, and I'll see what I can do:)

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

Heather wrote: "What does Monty Python have to do with Nirvana..."

It means you are winning the argument, Heather. Soon RA will be nothing but a head on a torso, saying "It's just a papercut!" as you demolish his argument that Nirvana wasn't the most important band of its era.

[Heather]

If you can't answer the question RA, that's fine. But if can't say why you won't/don't give credit to Nirvana, I don't see how you can say that they didn't earn it.

[Sally, la reina]

><

[RandomAnthony]

Ha...Heather, it's hardly good rhetorical practice to ask someone to answer a question but not be able to define your own terms. If you can't answer the question, though, that's fine:) Of what credit of you speak? You keep changing terms.

[Heather]

RA, if you don't know know what a ring leader is, I see no reason to continue this conversation. I'm saying that there were several bands that made up the Grunge movement were a flock of geese, Nirvana was head goose.

[Sally, la reina]

Good lord, RA! You both do! That's why everyone is conceding this argument but you!

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

RA, Nirvana didn't have to start the grunge movement to be the biggest band. They just had to capture our imagination and interest. They may not have played their music the most perfectly, written the best lyrics, but the synergy was THERE, instead of somewhere else.

The Beatles came from the skiffle trend, and emerged from many many other bands doing the same thing they were. The Stones weren't the only band absorbing blues music and reinterpreting back to the world, but they were the ones that caught on the best.

[Heather]

Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "Heather wrote: "What does Monty Python have to do with Nirvana..."

It means you are winning the argument, Heather. Soon RA will be nothing but a head on a torso, saying "It's just a papercut!" a..."

Oh I like that, :)

[Sally, la reina]

**Thanks Jackie for finally clearing all the smoke in the air**

[RandomAnthony]

I haven't changed any terms, Sally! I'm trying to keep up with Heather's questions when she's changing terms!

Now, I'm serious here...what do you mean by "head goose"? Because that's different to me than "voice of a generation".

I'm not conceding an argument because I can't get a handle on what exactly the argument is.

Heather, put forth, as clearly as possible, your argument, and I'll see what I can do.

:)

[Heather]

The way I see it RA, you are trying to poke holes in my terminology because you can't poke holes in my arguement.

[RandomAnthony]

Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "RA, Nirvana didn't have to start the grunge movement to be the biggest band. They just had to capture our imagination and interest. They may not have played their music the most perfectly, written ..."

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. "Biggest grunge band at the time", with that I can agree. "first band to capture teen malaise" I cannot. "Voice of a Generation" I still don't understand.

This is fun.

[Sally, la reina]

*watches RA writhe*

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

I think the argument is "Nirvana RULES!!!!" Right, Heather?

[Sally, la reina]

I think it is Nirvana RULED 1994!!!!

[Heather]

Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "RA, Nirvana didn't have to start the grunge movement to be the biggest band. They just had to capture our imagination and interest. They may not have played their music the most perfectly, written ..."


Yay, thanks Jackie...

[Heidi]

Heidi wrote: "Stubbornass. (not that I have any room to judge seeing as I'm a loser who gets THE MISFITS mixed with THE RUNAWAYS) "


As in the Black Knight is the stubbornass. I think RA was using the Black Knight as a personalized icon and is saying he's not backing down and he's "not dead yet." At least that's how I interpreted it. :)

[RandomAnthony]

I am not writhing, honestly. I am Spock-like in my calm. I appreciate Heather's perspectives, but they're personal opinions that become indefensible as larger generationizations when they cannot be defined.

I think Nirvana were important, no doubt...I think they were a good band...I've said that a couple times, I think:)

[Matt]

I just question whether the grunge thing was really a youth movement or just a clever marketing changeover when they saw that kids were getting tired of hair metal.

[Heather]

Haha, RA, you have lost...


*does my happy dance*

[RandomAnthony]

Oh, dear, I so have not lost. Sally and Jackie always support the underdog. I know. I'm often the underdog:)

[Heather]

IMO, Voice of a generation = ecompassing the theme of the generation/moevemnt

Nirvana = first band to ecompass teen malaise of the grunge varitey.

[RandomAnthony]

You also keep dodging my questions...because...I think you realize a lot of your terminology is next to impossible to defend. If you could defend them, you'd answer my questions regarding definition of terms. If you can't define your own terms, whether they be "ringleader" or "voice of the generation", in this context, how can you say your assertions have merit?

[Heather]

Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "I think the argument is "Nirvana RULES!!!!" Right, Heather?"

Hell yes!

[Sally, la reina]

Randomanthony wrote: The problem with Heather's theory is "they're personal opinions that become indefensible as larger generationizations when they cannot be defined. "

No, RA, she's perfectly clear. They were a pivotal band that defined a particular moment in rock history.

You aren't willing to concede that they were in any way pivotal, so you're complaining that she doesn't see rock history as you do and are calling them generalizations.

[Heidi]

I THINK THE ANSWER LIES SOMEWHERE IN THIS:

God bless Todd Snider. :)

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

And I agree with Heather - Nirvana was THE band, in the 90s.

tadpole, grunge was around when hair metal was around - it was just underground. I think it caught on not because hair metal was over (thank god!), but as an alternative to rap, and to Mariah Carey/Whitney Houston pop.

It was really sad in the music world for awhile in the early 90s....

[Heather]

RA, you can't look up voice of a generation on wiki. you either know the common sense definition or you don't.

[RandomAnthony]

Heather wrote: "IMO, Voice of a generation = ecompassing the theme of the generation/moevemnt

Nirvana = first band to ecompass teen malaise of the grunge varitey."

Ok, I would agree with part of the first statement...but it wouldn't be hard to find people in your generation that weren't Nirvana fans. I don't think a voice of a generation exists, honestly, outside of a convenient construct. It sounds like Nirvana was important to you, but the "voice of a generation" thing...I can't agree with that.

The second one...no...I would go back to "the most popular" instead of "first". Go back and listen to some of the bands that preceded Nirvana and it would be hard to argue "first". But could you argue the best? Sure. But that's a different, more opinion-based perspective.

And now I am done. The winner.

Shakes Heather's hand, runs away

[Sally, la reina]

oooooo! burr!!!!!

[Heather]

Run screaming RA! :)

And who makes it out of first grade without knowing what ringleader means?

[RandomAnthony]

Oh, the "common sense" argument always comes out when people can't define their terms and know they're busted. That's sooo lame.

I would agree with "pivotal", by my definition, anyway.

does happy winner dance

[Heather]

I would like to acknowledge Jackie and Sally in my victory

[[deleted user]]

All this over Nirvana? Really?

I'm disappointed. If this arguing were over, say, who was more important to the Stones, Mick or Keith, I'd be impressed.

(By the way, the answer's Keith)

[Sally, la reina]

Uh, first, I can't believe you resorted to "that's so lame." Sure mark of a burn!

and second, RA, you can't agree with my explanation to win the argument.