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The Villain & The Golden Apple
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message 1: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) This book still has the original cover I gave it before I really got into making covers. So I've come up with a new one. The old cover is easy to spot: it has that archaic "by Ken Doggett" at the bottom. The new cover has just the name. Should I replace the old cover with this one? And, if so, is there anything you would change about it?




Sam (Rescue Dog Mom, Writer, Hugger) (sammydogs) | 972 comments Wow, I like both covers. If you change your cover, save the old one to use elsewhere. The background is very science fiction.


message 3: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments Hard to choose. I like the fonts and general style of the second but I also like the art of the first. The first cover makes me think "sci fi" because of the origin of the photo, but the second cover looks more updated and polished. If I absolutely had to choose between the two, I'd probably pick the second one.


message 4: by Ken (last edited Oct 24, 2016 07:25PM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Amazing. I was certain that the new cover would blow the old one away, no contest. Maybe I'm just jaded to it. I could actually keep the old one and change some of the fonts. By the way, the first cover is an actual NASA photo.


message 5: by Rohvannyn (new)

Rohvannyn Shaw | 189 comments I thought it was - a Hubble image, if my picture archive tells the truth. I like it a lot. Maybe some other folks will weigh in.


message 6: by Marie Silk (new)

Marie Silk | 611 comments Great stuff, Ken :) I like the second one! Intense-looking!


message 7: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) If it turns out to be a toss-up, maybe I should do the same thing I did with the last new cover I made: leave the old cover on the paperback where it looks really good, and use the new cover on the ebook.


message 8: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ooooh, Mr Ken! The 2nd one wins for me. Hands down. I dig it!!!

Hmm. Personally, I'd use the same font ("The Villain") for the entire title and make "& the Bolden Apple" smaller, as well as a different color (the orange works).

Great job!!

*fist bumps*


G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments I think i'll have to side with the new cover... I just love the yellow :)

(even in paperback it would look good)


Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) The only nitpick I have on the second is the font on The Golden Apple. The first cover had the feel of a classic sci-fi magazine, which, if I recall, weren't these stories originally published in sci-fi mags?
I'd try to capture that feel, but still update


message 11: by Morris (new)

Morris Graham (morris_g) I like #2


message 12: by Jane (new)

Jane Jago | 888 comments I like the new one too....


message 13: by Ken (last edited Oct 25, 2016 06:36AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Based on your comments, I've refined both covers.
Here's #3:

And #4:

For this one, only the font for The Golden Apple was changed per Christina's suggestion. Both of these stories were published in the magazine Space & Time in the early 1980s. The Villain has been rewritten to fit with my first novel, which was based on the story, but The Golden Apple is left exactly as it appeared in the magazine.


message 14: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments I like the new font for The Golden Apple a lot more!! Personally, I'd go with a simple sans serif instead to 1) kinda be cohesive with The Villain and 2) have fewer serif fonts overall BUT...

Methinks it's waaay better already and works as is ^_~


message 15: by Ken (last edited Oct 25, 2016 08:34AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Thanks, Annie. Ask and ye shall receive. Two more varieties:
#5, sans serif:

And some papyrus for a little fun. #6:



message 16: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Mr Ken, would you do me a huge favor and try "& The Golden Apple" in the same font as The Villain? Just smaller but still in the same orange color? It looks good in my head but can't totally visualize it. Unless you think it's a crap idea, then...errrr....don't hahahaha!!

*whispers* Papyrus will destroy your soul... ^_~


message 17: by Jane (new)

Jane Jago | 888 comments Six for me. Papyrus adds a bit of pizzazz.


message 18: by Ken (last edited Oct 25, 2016 09:35AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Ask and ye shall receive (again). #7:


By the way, Annie, I don't worry about my soul any more. I sold it to the Devil for that Papyrus cover.


message 19: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Jane Jago wrote: "Six for me. Papyrus adds a bit of pizzazz."

At the risk of biasing the results, that's my favorite so far. Thanks, Jane.


message 20: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) And here's an additional thought. I could use one of these covers for the paperbacks on Lulu and Createspace, or use one version on Lulu, another on Createspace.

For the ebook I could break up the collection and publish each story separately for 99 cents each. I'd use the old cover for The Villain, and the new Cover for The Golden Apple. The Villain is almost 19,000 words, and The Golden Apple is over 10,000 words. Would that work?


message 21: by G.G. (new) - rated it 4 stars

G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments I do have to say that the new cover grows on you the more you look at it. :)


message 22: by Thomas (new)

Thomas Everson (authorthomaseverson) | 424 comments I'm torn between 6 & 7, but I think I'm leaning more toward 6.

My reasoning is that "& the Golden Apple" is in a yellowish color and in my mind connects with the word 'golden'. Number 7, unfortunately doesn't have that same connection.


message 23: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ooops. I was clear as mud again hahaha! Sorry, Mr Ken!!

I meant I would do "& The Golden Apple" in the same font as "The Villain" but keep it the same orange-y (yellow?) color it was before. I like that it's a different color to signify a different story. Plus, it's visually more interesting, imho.

Hmm. I dig both novellas together cuz you could totally price 29,000 words at $2.99 and make a waaay better royalty...

*smiles wide*


message 24: by Ken (last edited Oct 25, 2016 09:30AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Thomas wrote: "My reasoning is that "& the Golden Apple" is in a yellowish color and in my mind connects with the word 'golden'. Number 7, unfortuna..."

Yes, that was my intention. I also opted to change the tinting and color of the picture I used to give it a golden hue. My only objection to using the same font for both is that it makes it seem like one story with a long title. Different fonts indicate different stories to me.


message 25: by G.G. (new) - rated it 4 stars

G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments Ken wrote: "And here's an additional thought. I could use one of these covers for the paperbacks on Lulu and Createspace, or use one version on Lulu, another on Createspace.

For the ebook I could break up the..."


Well that's an idea...you could tell where the book came from just by looking at the cover. Clever


message 26: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Annie wrote: "Ooops. I was clear as mud again hahaha! Sorry, Mr Ken!!

I meant I would do "& The Golden Apple" in the same font as "The Villain" but keep it the same orange-y (yellow?) color it was before. I lik..."


Easy enough to remedy. Go back and look at it again.

I do currently price it at $2.99, but it doesn't sell well. Maybe the new cover would help.


message 27: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ooooh. It looks like it did in my brain so yeah, I totally dig it ^_~

Which is your fave so far?

As for covers, I've switched before and seen a notable difference (read: decrease LOL) in sales. In any case, I can totally confirm that they definitely matter *sigh*


message 28: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Annie wrote: "Ooooh. It looks like it did in my brain so yeah, I totally dig it ^_~

Which is your fave so far?

As for covers, I've switched before and seen a notable difference (read: decrease LOL) in sales. I..."


I recently changed the ebook cover of another book (you probably remember), but had no increase in sales afterward.

My favorite? Ummm....okay, I'll admit it. The Papyrus.


message 29: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ken wrote: "My favorite? Ummm....okay, I'll admit it. The Papyrus."

We're no longer on speaking terms. Just kidding. It actually doesn't look bad at all! And other peeps like it too, eh? Maybe that's your winner...?

Yeah, I do remember that! Hmm. I'm super curious so am totally gonna do an experiment next year with 1 novella and 6 different covers *crazy laugh* but I digress LOL


message 30: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Annie wrote: "Yeah, I do remember that! Hmm. I'm super curious so am totally gonna do an experiment next year with 1 novella and 6 different covers..."

When I changed that cover on the other book, I used the new one on all ebooks and on the Lulu paperback. The old one is still on the Lulu hardcover and the Createspace paperback, although, on the latter, I used a revised version of the old one.


message 31: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) And one more just for fun. #8



message 32: by G.G. (new) - rated it 4 stars

G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments That one is my favorite. As I said on Facebook, it doesn't detract from the cover and is still perfectly visible.


message 33: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ummm...

#8 takes it for me. Without a doubt. LOVE.


message 34: by Ken (last edited Oct 25, 2016 10:28AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Two definite votes for #8. Thanks, G.G. and Annie. And, frankly, I like Felix Titling better on "The Golden Apple" than Papyrus. (Wonder if I can get my soul back)


message 35: by G.G. (new) - rated it 4 stars

G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments Forgot to say that I also love the black for THE VILLAIN...it seems to fit well for the subject matter.


message 36: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ken wrote: "(Wonder if I can get my soul back)"

Already pawned it. Sorry. ^_~

@Miss GG: Yesss! Totes agree with the black = subject matter!!


Christina McMullen (cmcmullen) Another vote for eight!

(Geez! How did you guys keep your souls for so long as writers?)


message 38: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Christina wrote: "Another vote for eight!

(Geez! How did you guys keep your souls for so long as writers?)"


Didn't I tell you? I just traded mine for a book cover.

That's 3 votes for #8!


message 39: by Jane (new)

Jane Jago | 888 comments A lonely voice in the wilderness still prefers six


message 40: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Jane Jago wrote: "A lonely voice in the wilderness still prefers six"

As I look back at the thread, there appears to be two votes for #6, unless it changes, and still three votes for #8. So we have a challenger.


message 41: by Ken (last edited Oct 26, 2016 06:32AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) So, combining the elements of the two, adding a little lighting effect so I can neaten it up, here's #9:



message 42: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Or take #6 and mute it a little. #10:


And this should be enough choices, I think, unless someone has another suggestion.


message 43: by Ken (last edited Oct 26, 2016 07:49AM) (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Okay, just two more.
#11:

#12



message 44: by Jane (new)

Jane Jago | 888 comments Still six. XX


message 45: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Thanks, Jane. I checked the two, #6 and #10, side by side, and I found the muted version (#10) a little richer in color, and a little warmer. But it's all a matter of taste.


message 46: by M.L. (new)

M.L. | 1122 comments I'm in the minority here, I like 9. It lets the shimmering gold image take front and center. It's intriguing and from there I'll look closer to see the title which is kind of velvety and ominous.


message 47: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) Thanks, M.L. I also favor #9 over #8, but I think my two favorites thus far are #s 11 & 12. I downloaded #12 to my Kindle and it looks great. The running score is 1/2/3 for #9/#6/#8.


message 48: by G.G. (new) - rated it 4 stars

G.G. (ggatcheson) | 2491 comments For a print, #11 would be fabulous


message 49: by Ken (new)

Ken Doggett (kendoggett) G.G. wrote: "For a print, #11 would be fabulous"

So do you prefer #11 over #8?


message 50: by Annie (new)

Annie Arcane (anniearcane) | 629 comments Ann: Hey, #8!
#8: Whaddup?
Ann: Will you marry me?
#8: Did you see the newer versions?
Ann: Sure did!
#8: And...?
Ann: And you're still the only one for me.
#8: Giggity giggity.

Don't ask. Just don't.


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