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Heyer in General > That could have turned out much worse ...

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message 1: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments I just had a somewhat silly though and you ladies and Howard are the only people that might appreciate it.

I reread for the fifth time The Nonesuch and somewhere along the way I came up with the thought that Adam Deveril (A Civil Contract) had been matched up with Tiffany Wield that would have made a horrible train wreck of a relationship.

It's possible because Tiffany wanted to marry into the peerage (Adam is a Viscount) and she would have liked that he was a war hero.

Tiffany was an heiress and pretty. It seemed to me that the little conniver always presented very well and it wasn't until you really got to know her that it was realized that she was a viper. She could have charmed Adam quite well in the beginning.

Just something silly and funny to ponder on a Friday. I wouldn't have wished her on Adam but I would have enjoyed a confrontation between Tiffany and Julia - a clash of selfish titans.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments Poor Adam!


message 3: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments Oh boy that would have been a trainwreck. Tiffany would have smashed Julia though, if it came to a fight. Adam would have had his work cut out.


message 4: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie Scuitto | 261 comments It would have needed Sophie to sort them out! Trying to remember whether the green jacketed Riflemen were one of the units where she had friends but she would have been capable of putting Tiffany in her place!


message 5: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments Jaquie - Yes! I think that is a great idea to bring the grand Sophy in also. I love the idea of a three-way crossover.


message 6: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Bok (regency_reader) | 1287 comments They would make a great couple! (To read about that is, not to experience in real life.) You’re absolutely right, Jacquie, that it would take a Sophie to sort them out. Maybe in concert with the Duke of Avon, to inject a little more ruthlessness.


message 7: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Yeah, Sophy could do it.


message 8: by Vasoula (new)

Vasoula | 43 comments Abigail wrote: "They would make a great couple! (To read about that is, not to experience in real life.) You’re absolutely right, Jacquie, that it would take a Sophie to sort them out. Maybe in concert with the Du..."

Ha,ha, ha!


message 9: by Louise (last edited Oct 23, 2016 09:02AM) (new)

Louise Culmer it would have made a Civil Contract a lot less boring. and. I have always thought that waldo should have married Arabella - someone who would really take an interest in his good works.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments @Louise

Waldo and Arabella as a match is an interesting thought!

Waldo would have had more of an understanding of her impulses than Beaumaris seemed to do.


message 11: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee But Arabella wouldn't have provided the conflict that Heyer wanted.


message 12: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments Howard wrote: "But Arabella wouldn't have provided the conflict that Heyer wanted."

Very true. And she wouldn't have been able to trigger the growth of character she does in Mr B.


message 13: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee I love growth of character, whether it is real or just perceived.


message 14: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Emilia wrote: "Howard wrote: "But Arabella wouldn't have provided the conflict that Heyer wanted."

Very true. And she wouldn't have been able to trigger the growth of character she does in Mr B."


Howard wrote: "But Arabella wouldn't have provided the conflict that Heyer wanted."
i don't think his character does grow much. At the end it is clear that he isn't going to let Arabella contine to be involved in helping people. She ought to marry someone who shares her interest in philanthropy.


message 15: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments Louise wrote: "i don't think his character does grow much. At the end it is clear that he isn't going to let Arabella contine to be involved in helping people. She ought to marry someone who shares her interest in philanthropy. "
..."


That wasn't the impression I got at all. I think he knew he wasn't going to change her and was content with his situation. I think he'll end up becoming a philanthropist, possibly a reluctant one, but a philanthropist none the less.


message 16: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) Amy wrote: That wasn't the impression I got at all. I think he knew he wasn't going to change her and was content with his situation. I think he'll end up becoming a philanthropist, possibly a reluctant one, but a philanthropist none the less.

Even if only for distressed animals and climbing boys, rather than heavy drinking prostitutes!


message 17: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Amy wrote: "Louise wrote: "i don't think his character does grow much. At the end it is clear that he isn't going to let Arabella contine to be involved in helping people. She ought to marry someone who shares..."

he tells her at the end that he's not going to let her help the woman, and i suspect that any future philanthropic efforts on her part are likely to be similarly quenched.


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1088 comments Rosina wrote: "Amy wrote: That wasn't the impression I got at all. I think he knew he wasn't going to change her and was content with his situation. I think he'll end up becoming a philanthropist, possibly a relu..."

I think you are absolutely right Rosina - he will support her - but as a realist, he will draw limits and that is what he indicates at the end of the book. I love the relationship between Mr B and Arabella. It does reflect GH's regular theme of redemption through love.


message 19: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments Louise wrote: "he tells her at the end that he's not going to let her help the woman, and i suspect that any future philanthropic efforts on her part are likely to be similarly quenched."

I do think Mr B will curb some of Arabella's natural urges, but probably the reason he chose her above any other debutante was because he recognised some lack in his own character, which her own selflessness remedied. I agree, he won't turn into a perfect paragon of charity, but he probably married her because she will force him to be more giving and to not walk past other people's misfortunes as though he could do nothing about it. He will stop her from making a fool of herself and casting herself into dangerous situations, and she, hopefully, will make him a more charitable person within the confines of what he thinks is proper and suitable for his position.


message 20: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Emilia wrote: "Louise wrote: "he tells her at the end that he's not going to let her help the woman, and i suspect that any future philanthropic efforts on her part are likely to be similarly quenched."

I do thi..."


I suppose it's possible he will become more charitable as a result of marrying arabella, but i am not hopeful. i still think she should have married someone like waldo from the Nonesuch, or a clergyman who she could help in his parish work, not an idle fop like mr Beaumaris


message 21: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments I do think Arabella is too good for Mr B, to be fair.


message 22: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments Emilia wrote: "I do think Arabella is too good for Mr B, to be fair."

He was never one of my favorites either. I do love Arabella but I think she would be a little too young for Waldo. (I can't picture anyone with Waldo except Ancilla ... with her or with no one.)

If we had to match Hugh (Unknown Ajax) up with someone else, who would that have been? I have never loved him with Anthea. Maybe Sophy?


message 23: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) I have to admit that Arabella and Beaumaris are one of my favourite couples - there will be a lot of growth still to go through, but I have hopes for them. I wouldn't wish Sir Waldo on her - he would be far more unpleasant to Bertram that Beaumaris is, as he is towards Laurie - Bertram doesn't have a title, isn't rich, is rather foolish ...


message 24: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Bok (regency_reader) | 1287 comments Hmm, can we match Hugo from The Unknown Ajax with ME?? (Sorry, major Team Hugo member here.) Seriously, though, he needs someone who’s smart and has a sense of humor but isn’t snarky or angry. Frederica, maybe? Annis Wychwood from Lady of Quality? (On condition that she shake the dust of that household from her feet.)


message 25: by Amy (new)

Amy (aggieamy) | 422 comments Abigail wrote: "Hmm, can we match Hugo from The Unknown Ajax with ME?? (Sorry, major Team Hugo member here.) Seriously, though, he needs someone who’s smart and has a sense of humor but isn’t snarky or angry. Frederica, maybe? Annis Wychwood from Lady of Quality? (On condition that she shake the dust of that household from her feet.) ."

Alright. He's yours! :)

I haven't read LoQ yet but now am really interested. The GH's I haven't read yet I've been trying to save until we do them as group reads.


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments I like Abigail's idea to pair Hugo with Annis Wychwood from LoQ!


message 27: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments Amy wrote: "If we had to match Hugh (Unknown Ajax) up with someone else, who would that have been? I have never loved him with Anthea. Maybe Sophy?"

Do you know before I finished reading your question I thought: Sophy! Because he's extremely clever and knows how to manage things, but in a very different way to Sophy. That being said, they probably wouldn't make a good romantic couple. But to see them in a novel together would be fab! :)

Abigail wrote: "Hmm, can we match Hugo from The Unknown Ajax with ME??"

Yeah, I'd have him for myself any day too. He and Freddy are my absolute favourites, but I think I could live with Hugo much better than with Freddy, since I'm not very much into fashion, and I do like big men :)


message 28: by Jenny (new)

Jenny H (jenny_norwich) | 634 comments Louise wrote: "he tells her at the end that he's not going to let her help the woman,"
He insists that Leaky Peg is not going to attempt a career as a housemaid in any house of his, but doesn't veto any future benevolence towards her; at the time, I think he's just trying to reclaim Arabella's attention for himself.


message 29: by Jenny (new)

Jenny H (jenny_norwich) | 634 comments Amy wrote: "I haven't read LoQ yet but now am really interested."
It's a bit of a potboiler, to be honest. A lot of stock characters and stock situations from other books, and in the end not much happening. Not a complete waste of time if you just want something to read, but not, IMO, anything to eagerly look forward to.


message 30: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4159 comments Mod
Jenny wrote: "
It's a bit of a potboiler, to be honest. A lot of stock characters and stock situations from other books, and in the end not much h..."


Pretty good summary.

I'm old enough to remember eagerly awaiting the latest Heyer. Unfortunately not old enough to remember the release of the really good ones

Cousin Kate, Charity Girl, LofQ, My Lord John, the rerelease of the suppressed Simon the C...

Lucky I was already a fan. :/


message 31: by Louise (last edited Oct 26, 2016 02:00AM) (new)

Louise Culmer Abigail wrote: "Hmm, can we match Hugo from The Unknown Ajax with ME?? (Sorry, major Team Hugo member here.) Seriously, though, he needs someone who’s smart and has a sense of humor but isn’t snarky or angry. Fred..."

I quite like Anthea in Unknown Ajax. She isn't one of Heyer's most memorable heroines, but she is sensible and cheerful and has a sense of humour. i find fredericka rather tiresome with her obsession abour marrying her sister off to someone who the sister quite clearly doesn't want to marry. She's a bit obtuse. i don't remember Amis very well, she didn't make any particular impression on me.


message 32: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie Scuitto | 261 comments I rather liked Annis, saddled with a clingy sister and an obtuse brother as well as a very teen-aged niece! She needed Miles to shake up her life a bit as well as to rescue her.
Frederika was also saddled with a family but a rather more likeable one. More than can be said for Alverstoke's family!


Andrea AKA Catsos Person (catsosperson) | 1136 comments Thought the book "Frederica" is a better book than LoQ, I like Annis more than Frederica the character.


message 34: by Emilia (new)

Emilia Barnes | 145 comments Jacquie wrote: "I rather liked Annis, saddled with a clingy sister and an obtuse brother as well as a very teen-aged niece! She needed Miles to shake up her life a bit as well as to rescue her.
Frederika was also..."


Do you mean Abigail?


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1088 comments Abigail and Miles are in Black Sheep; Annis and Oliver in Lady of Quality. Easy to get confused with such similar stories and characters!


message 36: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Bok (regency_reader) | 1287 comments I always get Annis Wychwood (Lady of Quality) and Abigail Wendover (Black Sheep) mixed up! But this time I checked and I meant Annis. Either one would do for Hugo, I suppose, if he couldn’t have ME! I’m sure I would like Anthea a lot if I weren’t so busy elbowing her out of the way to get at Hugo.


message 37: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (new)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4159 comments Mod
GH did like A christian names for female characters!


message 38: by Marissa (new)

Marissa Doyle | 108 comments Jenny wrote: "Louise wrote: "he tells her at the end that he's not going to let her help the woman,"
He insists that Leaky Peg is not going to attempt a career as a housemaid in any house of his, but doesn't vet..."


I agree. Arabella has already changed him, as I think he wryly notes--witness the dog (Caesar, was it?) and the chimney sweep. He was not prepared to take Leaky Peg into his house, but I think he knew and accepted that Arabella would draw him into a life of philanthropy. I love the scene where Arabella is confronting everyone over the sweep, and Mr. Beaumaris stands in the background, watching in silence but unable to take his eyes off her. I think the lightning hit him then. :)


message 39: by Marissa (new)

Marissa Doyle | 108 comments Abigail wrote: "Hmm, can we match Hugo from The Unknown Ajax with ME?? (Sorry, major Team Hugo member here.) Seriously, though, he needs someone who’s smart and has a sense of humor but isn’t snarky or angry. Fred..."

Mmm, Team Hugo here too...a man confident enough to laugh at himself!


message 40: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "GH did like A christian names for female characters!"

For some books, but the ones I really get confused between are the H characters, all of whom are very back seat, in Sprig Muslin, The Foundling and Charity Girl.
Hester, Harriet and Henrietta ... But which one is which?


message 41: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie Scuitto | 261 comments Susan in Perthshire wrote: Abigail and Miles are in Black Sheep; Annis and Oliver in Lady of Quality. Easy to get confused with such similar stories and characters!

Sorry! I was relying on memory which seems to have been faulty! Haven't read either in a while ...


message 42: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Rosina wrote: " Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "GH did like A christian names for female characters!"

For some books, but the ones I really get confused between are the H characters, all of whom are very back ..."


hester is in Sprig muslin. i don't remember who it is in The Foundling, and i haven't read Charity Girl. but i find Hester quite an interesting character.


message 43: by Margaret (new)

Margaret | 518 comments Harriet is in The Foundling and Henrietta/Hetta is in Charity Girl. I find it interesting that all these similar and confusable H characters occur in books where there is a (view spoiler).


message 44: by Ceri (new)

Ceri | 103 comments Marissa wrote: "Arabella has already changed him, as I think he wryly notes--witness the dog (Caesar, was it?"

From memory, I think Mr Beaumaris' dog was Ulysses, and very sweet he was too :)


message 45: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) There is also a Henrietta/Hetty in To Have the Honour, in Pistols For Two, with a similar 'long term friendship expected to turn to marriage' relationship. Hs are the girls you didn't know you were fond of.

If Melissa Brandon had been a Hester, The Corinthian would have had a very different ending!


message 46: by Anjali (new)

Anjali (anjals) | 25 comments I think Mr. B and Arabella are very well-suited to each other. She is impulsive and he is practical. She rescues the chimney boy and he finds a way to take care of him. He clearly respects her sense of justice and compassion and will surely help her in her charitable works but he will temper her impulsive nature with common sense. He doesn't want Leaky Peg to be part of his household, but I have no doubt he will find some way to help her! I think GH is clear that he is quite self-aware and capable of growth, besides being intelligent, well-read and having a sense of humour. And remember that Arabella quite enjoys being part of the fashionable world - I'd say Mr. B is perfect for her.


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1088 comments Anjali wrote: "I think Mr. B and Arabella are very well-suited to each other. She is impulsive and he is practical. She rescues the chimney boy and he finds a way to take care of him. He clearly respects her sens..."

Excellent points Anjali - and I totally agree with you. I think one of the great themes in GH's romances is that each person in the partnership will grow and develop as a result of that relationship and Robert and Arabella are a great example of that.


message 48: by Marissa (new)

Marissa Doyle | 108 comments Ceri wrote: "Marissa wrote: "Arabella has already changed him, as I think he wryly notes--witness the dog (Caesar, was it?"

From memory, I think Mr Beaumaris' dog was Ulysses, and very sweet he was too :)"


Ulysses! Of course. I was trying to figure out why Caesar came to mind, and I think it's because I recently read a biography of King Edward VII, and his dog was named Caesar. Thank you!


message 49: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Anjali wrote: "I think Mr. B and Arabella are very well-suited to each other. She is impulsive and he is practical. She rescues the chimney boy and he finds a way to take care of him. He clearly respects her sens..."

i don't like mr beaumaris. Don't like the way he treats Arabella, and i have no great hope that he will allow her to continue with her philanthropic interests after marriage.


message 50: by Vasoula (new)

Vasoula | 43 comments Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Anjali wrote: "I think Mr. B and Arabella are very well-suited to each other. She is impulsive and he is practical. She rescues the chimney boy and he finds a way to take care of him. He clearly re..."

I completely agree and I particularly like the way he helps her brother in a generous and thoughtful way.


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