World, Writing, Wealth discussion

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message 1: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Does it matter if we sell any books or not in the end? We would write and publish anyway, right?


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments I definitely would.


message 3: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "I definitely would."

Me too. However what's stopping us from writing a diary and keeping it to ourselves?


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Lol journaling is soothing because it's like therapy. Writing is not soothing at all. We're artists yanking beauty out of raw material and it is like giving birth. You forget about the pain the moment you hit publish and you know it was worth it. We want our thoughts out there in the world. It's validating in a way that's different from keeping a diary.


message 5: by Mehreen (last edited Oct 20, 2016 12:38AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Tara wrote: "Lol journaling is soothing because it's like therapy. Writing is not soothing at all. We're artists yanking beauty out of raw material and it is like giving birth. You forget about the pain the mom..."

I know. I do feel like I've given birth every time I finished a book. Lol That is so true.


message 6: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 14885 comments For me it matters.
For myself alone - I can imagine stories without putting them on paper or computer screen-:) Need no cover or editing either. Production of each book costs me 500-1k usd - maybe not the most expensive hobby, but I'd kinda prefer them returning -:) Time is also of essence. Time writing is well spent for it brings enjoyment (unless it comes on account of other important things), while on marketing and other paraphernalia - I'm not so sure, if there is no financial reward for it in the form of sales..


message 7: by Mehreen (last edited Oct 20, 2016 12:51AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "For me it matters.
For myself alone - I can imagine stories without putting them on paper or computer screen-:) Need no cover or editing either. Production of each book costs me 500-1k usd - maybe ..."


Money would always be at the centre of course. But would you stop writing though regardless of the sales?


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Nik wrote: "For me it matters.
For myself alone - I can imagine stories without putting them on paper or computer screen-:) Need no cover or editing either. Production of each book costs me 500-1k usd - maybe ..."


Have you ever thought of writing shorter bits of flash fiction and working up to novellas and short stories? It is less time consuming and very rewarding. Use them as a free way to establish your brand and gain a following. The free shorts keep the juices flowing and can incentivize a mailing list which is important when you have a paid offering. Hit a rich vein of loyal readers and you'll see how much more wonderful it makes writing. No upfront costs either.


message 9: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 14885 comments Thanks, some good ideas! I'm toying with some projects despite low returns, so I guess I'm hanging in there anyway -:)


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments That's awesome, Nik. The author who wrote Wicked saw horrible returns on her book. It faded away until 8 or so years went by and it was rediscovered. She is a multimillionaire now and Wicked is one of Broadway's most successful musicals ever.


message 11: by Mehreen (last edited Oct 20, 2016 01:05AM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Nik wrote: "Thanks, some good ideas! I'm toying with some projects despite low returns, so I guess I'm hanging in there anyway -:)"

Never give up your day job. If this becomes financially lucrative well and good if not you always have a job to fall back on.


message 12: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Mehreen wrote: "Does it matter if we sell any books or not in the end? We would write and publish anyway, right?"

Not necessarily. The majority would not. Some may, but very little would continue with the craft.

We live in a materialistic, selfie society. Everything we do is dependent on money and identity.

This is my experience, and this is coming from a teacher, me. I taught for a number of years in continuing art education at 3 institutions--1 public, 1 private. Most of my adult students told me, they were changing vocations because they didn't like what they were doing, and so ventured into art because it promised big-bucks, notoriety, and fulfillment. They were tired of their boring vocation, and wanted to shine, make money, and be envied. They soon realized that art required learning the rules. I taught composition and structure and design. I am a graphic designer by profession, and have turned to writing as an added mental discipline--keeping that gray-matter alive.

I believe being an artist, of any kind, is a dedication that is part of ones soul. If you don't have that, you'll never stick with it, no matter how it turns out--published or not. It's an ongoing addiction that must be released.

I have written some 30 books, hundreds of shorts stories, and some shorts have been accepted for publication on the Internet. My books couldn't get published, so I turned to self-publishing. To date I've self-published 6 books, and 2 more on the way. I have sold very little, it's almost embarrassing how little. But, I still hammer away. It's something I have to do. I have stories filling my head, and they've got to come out. It's my addiction.


message 13: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments GR wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Does it matter if we sell any books or not in the end? We would write and publish anyway, right?"

Not necessarily. The majority would not. Some may, but very little would continue ..."


I know it is like an addiction, isn't it? Although I have not self-published, but I have not written that many books either. Your book listing is very encouraging.


message 14: by GR (new)

GR Oliver | 479 comments Thanks, Mehreen.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Well said GR :)


message 16: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Mehreen wrote: "Does it matter if we sell any books or not in the end? We would write and publish anyway, right?"

Yes and no, Im giving it 3 books. Im not writing to write. I wont panic if Book #1 has little to no sales. If Book #2 is a flat line, its going to hard to do Book #3 but I will give it another shot. If after 3 books, I have little to no sales and/or bad reviews, I will probably have to accept the inevitable and realize, this isnt for me and move on.

I was never a writer, never wanted to be a writer. Im not unhappy being a lawyer but a story came to me and I decided to write it. Once that story is told, even if it was successful monetarily, I dont think I would continue to write.

The only real question is do I finish books 4-6 even if the first 3 dont sell just so I can complete the story - and honestly I dont know.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Michael
Interesting. Michael J. Sullivan, a best-selling author has a technique that I think is sound. He writes his entire series from beginning to end before he publishes the first in the series. He says it keeps the story organic and authentic and he is not swayed by the market or the publishers. It works because his stories are woven very tightly and there are never any plot holes because he forgot what he wrote three books ago. He also gets to sprinkle in awesome little references that make the reader go 'hey, that makes sense now' throughout the series. I also suspect he has a lot more fun writing this way as he is the only one influencing what goes on the page. This doesn't exactly fit your situation but it is something to consider.


message 18: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Tara wrote: "This doesn't exactly fit your situation but it is something to consider. "

Actually it does. All 6 books are already laid out in my mind. I havent outlined the other 5 yet but since 4 of the 5 are being pulled directly from historical fact, its not that hard. The last book is complete fiction and occurs in the future so that one will be a bit more difficult.

I just finished Book #1 and into I wrote holes that will be filled in by Books 2-6, so in essence I am doing the same, Im just not waiting 2 yrs to release all 6. I wish I had the luxury to release all 6 at once. My beta-readers are already asking for Book #6 since #1 ended on a cliff-hanger to some extent.


message 19: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan Hi Tara, if I had done what MJS did, I would be publishing 10 years from now (at best).

I have also found feedback from my first book invaluable for improving my skills (I hope...)

I have planned the books out and have a clear narrative, so I know where I'm heading.

It will just take a couple of years to start to get the "Author Shelf" established and along with that the credibility that goes with having multiple books.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Michael wrote: "Tara wrote: "This doesn't exactly fit your situation but it is something to consider. "

Actually it does. All 6 books are already laid out in my mind. I havent outlined the other 5 yet but since 4..."


That's pretty cool. I can't imagine a 6 story narrative rattling around in my head. I could start a saga, I suppose, but Roots has already been written haha.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "Hi Tara, if I had done what MJS did, I would be publishing 10 years from now (at best).

I have also found feedback from my first book invaluable for improving my skills (I hope...)

I have planned..."


Oh how I envy you fiction writers :) Someday soon...


message 22: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Tara wrote: "I can't imagine a 6 story narrative rattling around in my head."

Well I dont either. Thats why I dont think I would continue writing after these 6. The only thing I could do is write some short background stories of the characters.

I have two characters in this book, one an agent of the Vatican Swiss Guard and the other a corrupt Opus Dei member who is an LAPD Sargent that served in Afghanistan together, that my beta-readers are asking more about. I could do a short story about their time in the Special Forces together.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Michael wrote: "Tara wrote: "I can't imagine a 6 story narrative rattling around in my head."

Well I dont either. Thats why I dont think I would continue writing after these 6. The only thing I could do is write ..."


A lot of bloggers do character interviews on their sites. You should consider it.


message 24: by Mehreen (last edited Oct 21, 2016 06:04PM) (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Michael wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Does it matter if we sell any books or not in the end? We would write and publish anyway, right?"

Yes and no, Im giving it 3 books. Im not writing to write. I wont panic if Book #1..."


I should like to encourage you to continue regardlessly. Honestly, I don't really think there is any magic solution or formula. Certain things work for certain writers. What has worked for them hard to know. I usually put it down to crude luck. However, If a book is well written and if people know that the writer writes good books, then it sells. That's my experience anyway. Readers are the ultimate judge. I always say this. They are the ones who either make or break them.


message 25: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Michael wrote: "Tara wrote: "I can't imagine a 6 story narrative rattling around in my head."

Well I dont either. Thats why I dont think I would continue writing after these 6. The only thing I could do is write ..."


You should not give away your ideas like this before the book is published. That's copyright rule no 1.


message 26: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 213 comments Mehreen wrote: "Money would always be at the centre of course. But would you stop writing though regardless of the sales?"

Not sure if that was meant as a general statement or your own personal motivation. We each need to decide for ourselves what constitutes "success" and everyone's measure will be personal to them. There will be some (maybe many?) people for whom money is not and never will be at the center.

Good sales would be nice, but right now I'm enjoying the creative outlet. The biggest thing that keeps me going is the small circle of work colleagues and other acquaintances (online and in person) who read my first two books and who regularly ask when the next one will be ready. Yes, those are sales, but overall my writing is still a financial loss and I don't expect that to change any time soon :)


message 27: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 213 comments Tara wrote: "A lot of bloggers do character interviews on their sites. You should consider it."

Oh, yes! I love that technique for getting into a character's head and have posted a few to my blog. I would recommend it.


message 28: by Mehreen (new)

Mehreen Ahmed (mehreen2) | 1911 comments Ian wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Money would always be at the centre of course. But would you stop writing though regardless of the sales?"

Not sure if that was meant as a general statement or your own personal mo..."


That's great. Keep it up.


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