Crooked Kingdom (Six of Crows, #2) Crooked Kingdom discussion


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WHY DID T-HE-Y HAVE TO DIE *****SPOILERS***** also spoilers for Grisha trilogy

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message 1: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle I cant even begin to understand the words before me
MATTHAIS DIED
Why Leigh, was it not enough that you tore up my heart when the Darkling died, You just had to go and throw it in the incinerator and burn it. Why in this god forsaken world did Matthais have to die, but Pekka Rollins and Jan Van Eck had to survive.

I mean it was bad enough that Alina did not end up with the Darkling in The Grisha Trilogy. (Yes he was bad but He was SOOO bad that it just felt right, they were the most powerful grisha ever, they should have ended up together)
The darkling was no a bad person he was only doing what was best for his people.

Dont get me wrong I love Leigh Bardougo's writing that ill never stop reading the books that she whips out, but why does she keep doing this to me, Its bad enough that I may never get a happy ending, so at least do me the honnor and give it to my Favourite characters so I can live on with knowing that they did.

Please if anyone agrees with me !!please!! SPEAK OUT, I'm DYING HERE


message 2: by Afrika (last edited Oct 06, 2016 11:24PM) (new)

Afrika Huruman because he's a safe choice to kill;non-female,non-poc,non-queer person.


message 3: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid check out topic I just started n maybe you'll find out,,, x,x :))
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 4: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Sarinah wrote: "I feel so bad Matthias had to die but I guess Leigh had to kill off someone *sigh*."

But the FEEL'S they hurt so bad.


message 5: by Stephanie (last edited Oct 16, 2016 08:44PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Stephanie His death was totally unnecessary but in a way after thinking about it like an adult I came to this conclusion.

Matthias really has no home anymore. He cant go back to Fjeda, Ketterdam would never really work for him, Ravka isnt really the best place either because he will always be the odd man out. He was brainwashed to hunt and kill Grisha, so of course the other Grisha wont accept him. Ketterdam doesn't even fit his morals, and he is labeled a traitor in his home country.

HOWEVER his death was a waste and I am pissed. Now I got to wait until Nina goes to the afterlife to see him again. Hopefully there will be a short story about them meeting there and rekindling that flame.


message 6: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle I really hope so too. I need to read more of them.


BookThief Yes, Matthais' death was unnecessary.
I think that the author is going to write about the promise Nina made to him, about the Fjerdans, and it'll be hard for Nina to go there, alone, and fulfill the promise and maybe because it's hard for her, it's easy to write the story and interesting for us, readers, to follow those hard paths she, Nina, travles along.


message 8: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid @Stephanie I seriously hope (we)she won't had to wait that long!x,x hopefully Nina can have near death experience (aka Disney style) and see M once more at least to say proper goodbye?!^^ lolz :)))

@Vidyavardhini I agree!^^ it make sense for story to go that way!^^:))
We had plenty of ravka and kerch! Now it's time for story to move for Fjerda and Shu!XD lolz ;))


Stephanie Cid wrote: "@Stephanie I seriously hope (we)she won't had to wait that long!x,x hopefully Nina can have near death experience (aka Disney style) and see M once more at least to say proper goodbye?!^^ lolz :)))..."


I wish she would just magically bring him back to life like the kid from The Raven King and then him and Nina can make little Grisha/Warrior babies.


message 10: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid awww! yeah! we already know it's possible as Alina did the same! lolz :)) but I doubt that'll happen again,,, (we are not that lucky!x,x ;)


Szava it made no narrative sense. it didn't move the plot or anyone's character arch or development forward. it didn't have meaning. and for me it didn't even have a true impact. it didn't make sense to kill him. it didn't even make the book darker or more serious. it's just a bunch of scenes those don't fit and actually break the flow and rhythm of the novel for me.

and like... he and Nina could have been the most amazing power couple dedicating their lives to stopping the fjerdan grisha hate or something


message 12: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Szava wrote: "it made no narrative sense. it didn't move the plot or anyone's character arch or development forward. it didn't have meaning. and for me it didn't even have a true impact. it didn't make sense to ..."

Thank you finally someone that agrees


Steven I'm kinda hoping he had to die so that if there's another series set in this universe Nina snaps because of her loss and becomes the antagonist with an army of the dead and the corpse of Matthias rules at her side...


message 14: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Steven wrote: "I'm kinda hoping he had to die so that if there's another series set in this universe Nina snaps because of her loss and becomes the antagonist with an army of the dead and the corpse of Matthias r..."
omg! same thought here!XD fact is that's the only way *dramatic plot twist* would have any point?x,x facepalm roll roll


message 15: by Belle (last edited Nov 02, 2016 04:47AM) (new) - added it

Belle LOOK I HOPE SO
Because I need more of Nina and Matthais
Fingers crossed for another spin off series.


message 16: by Cid (last edited Nov 02, 2016 05:01AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Belle wrote: "LOOK I HOPE SO
Because I need more of Nina and Matthais
Fingers crossed for another spin off series."


joining in with fingers crossed!^^ :)) btw it may take a while as there is news about next book to be new universe?x,x something harrypoter style?x/// me.not.happy!x.x ;///

but we may always hope for short 2.5?:))) lolz


message 17: by Belle (last edited Nov 02, 2016 05:04AM) (new) - added it

Belle Really, Arrh. I can't wait too long.
Anyway the new series sounds cool. Is it on Goodreads yet.


message 18: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Belle wrote: "Really, Arrh. I can't wait too long.
Anyway the new series sounds cool. Is it on Goodreads yet."


yep, listed on her profile as *Ninth House (Alex Stern #1) along with Wonder Woman;Warbringer n Verse Chorus Verse/hm, this is new maybe some poetry?^^ so hopefully we just need to keep an eye on it for news!^^ :))


message 19: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle CANNOT WAIT FOR ANY OF IT.
[Huge sigh***]


Sophie At least he died semi-properly. I will accept characters' deaths as long as they die properly. Matthias got his final words, which were good final words, but he was killed in such a… such an anticlimactic way. Only semi-properly

I wish he had lived though. I don't care if it wouldn't have been realistic! Just because people can die doesn't mean they have to!!
Plus, Nina deserved to have him alive after all they went through. We didn't get a chapter from her point of view after his death, did we?


Mrsbooks Ug... sorry. I haven't read the Grisha series and had planned on it. Might want to put those tid bits in spoiler tags specifying which book they're for. Generally when one enters a thread with the words spoilers, they assume it's for the book the thread is under, not another one. Now I'm not sure if I even wanna read the grisha series. Maybe it's better I read the spoiler?


message 22: by Cid (last edited Dec 08, 2016 01:53PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Mrsbooks wrote: "Ug... sorry. I haven't read the Grisha series and had planned on it. Might want to put those tid bits in spoiler tags specifying which book they're for. Generally when one enters a thread with the ..."

yep, we need that spoiled tag!^^:))
but don't worry, you can still read your book, *technically he may not be dead, ending n other tips leave it kinda open?!^^ maybe even reappear as villian in another future installments?!XD lolz :))

p.s especially with Nina new powers that are kind of reminder of his?XD :)))

Edit; it would be great to have those two series merged in 3rd!XD lolz ;))
(sorry can't help it luv conspiracy theories!XD :))


message 24: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Cid wrote: "3rd book confirmed!:D Yess!^^ lolz
https://www.goodreads.com/series/1318...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4..."


I know I'm so excited.
Some part of me is still holding out hopeing that Matthais will come back to life, like Nina resurrecting him some how.


message 25: by Cid (last edited Aug 05, 2018 03:01AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid exctly my point, why not?!xD But it's a long wait!x,x facepalm lolz


message 26: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Cid wrote: "exctly my point, why not?!xD But it's a long wait!x,x facepalm lolz"
I know. But the best things in life are worth waiting for.


message 27: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Belle wrote: "Cid wrote: "exctly my point, why not?!xD But it's a long wait!x,x facepalm lolz"
I know. But the best things in life are worth waiting for."

that's what everyone say,,, ;)


message 28: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Cid wrote: "Belle wrote: "Cid wrote: "exctly my point, why not?!xD But it's a long wait!x,x facepalm lolz"
I know. But the best things in life are worth waiting for."
that's what everyone say,,, ;)"

Yeah, only because it’s true 😏


message 29: by Drue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Drue Belle wrote: "I cant even begin to understand the words before me
MATTHAIS DIED
Why Leigh, was it not enough that you tore up my heart when the Darkling died, You just had to go and throw it in the incinerator ..."

I guess it was just necessary.


message 30: by Ellie (new)

Ellie Belle wrote: "I cant even begin to understand the words before me
MATTHAIS DIED
Why Leigh, was it not enough that you tore up my heart when the Darkling died, You just had to go and throw it in the incinerator ..."


Watch this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI0b...

Also Matthias was my favorite character, but in some ways i'm glad he died. If he didn't I would feel like the book was too cheesy. and I mean like because he died i'm sure your like, "to hell with cheesiness I want Matthias!" but seriously, it makes sense. There had to be a death. In a book so dark and with so much death, it's only fitting some main character dies. I think it was totally reasonable and fitting.

Don't get me wrong I totally cried my eyes out when it happened. But I think Leigh Bardugo is a good writer and is especially good at preventing cheesy ending with too much lucky coincedence.


message 31: by Ellie (new)

Ellie Sophie wrote: "At least he died semi-properly. I will accept characters' deaths as long as they die properly. Matthias got his final words, which were good final words, but he was killed in such a… such an anticl..."
ikr I really with we got her point of view after the death, even if it meant another hour of sobbing


message 32: by Ellie (new)

Ellie Szava wrote: "it made no narrative sense. it didn't move the plot or anyone's character arch or development forward. it didn't have meaning. and for me it didn't even have a true impact. it didn't make sense to ..."

Matthias was my favorite character, but in some ways i'm glad he died. If he didn't I would feel like the book was too cheesy. and I mean like because he died i'm sure your like, "to hell with cheesiness I want Matthias!" but seriously, it makes sense. There had to be a death. In a book so dark and with so much death, it's only fitting some main character dies. I think it was totally reasonable and fitting.

Don't get me wrong I totally cried my eyes out when it happened. But I think Leigh Bardugo is a good writer and is especially good at preventing cheesy ending with too much lucky coincedence.


message 33: by Ellie (new)

Ellie Afrika wrote: "because he's a safe choice to kill;non-female,non-poc,non-queer person."

yea.


message 34: by Ellie (new)

Ellie Belle wrote: "Szava wrote: "it made no narrative sense. it didn't move the plot or anyone's character arch or development forward. it didn't have meaning. and for me it didn't even have a true impact. it didn't ..."

Also Matthias was my favorite character, but in some ways i'm glad he died. If he didn't I would feel like the book was too cheesy. and I mean like because he died i'm sure your like, "to hell with cheesiness I want Matthias!" but seriously, it makes sense. There had to be a death. In a book so dark and with so much death, it's only fitting some main character dies. I think it was totally reasonable and fitting.

Don't get me wrong I totally cried my eyes out when it happened. But I think Leigh Bardugo is a good writer and is especially good at preventing cheesy ending with too much lucky coincedence.


message 35: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Ellie wrote: "Afrika wrote: "because he's a safe choice to kill;non-female,non-poc,non-queer person."

yea."

Exactly!:) btw anyone get news Grishaverse is coming out on Netflix soon?:) including Six of Crows & Language of Thorns as well: http://foreveryoungadult.com/2019/01/... Yey! this yr started with good news! can't wait to read Nina pov in King of Scars!XD lol


message 36: by David (new)

David Navar Look, the crew in Crooked Kingdom pulled of a heist that if you think about is totally impossible. So in a way I agree with Leigh because someone had to die.


message 37: by AttikCat (new)

AttikCat I think a better way to look at it was complete irony for Matthias to die, or rather the fact that out of all the characters in the group (the other Crows), it would make sense since his story was kind of finished.

Matthias started out as a hateful little bastard and grew to find peace with those around him, as well as realize his love for Nina- who is someone that goes entirely against his culture and upbringing in both her personality and her whole... being a Grisha.

The irony part of his death, though, is the fact that Matthias was the only /really/ religiously moved character. He would kill for his religion and base everything he does around it. (The other Crows weren't all that religious, save for Inej. But the difference between him and Inej's religions besides the fact that they were... different religions is the fact that Inej mostly only got guidance and advice from her beliefs, while Matthias entirely let his life be based around his beliefs, down to what he did and how he acted.) He was killed because he finally saw the flaw in what he worshipped, or at least the flaws of the other followers, and allowed himself to love Nina. This lead to another member of his religion (the boy with the gun) to shoot him down because, in his eyes, Matthais had entirely rejected their beliefs to instead support the Grisha... which wasn't true since he still believed in it.

Him not being a female, a P.O.C., or queer has nothing to do with his death- it is all sick irony based around the misconceptions of a still brain-washed little boy. Matthais was killed by a boy that was raised on the same beliefs as him, and had just had yet to realize the deep flaws in it.


message 38: by Ktp (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ktp The fact Matthias died in the dumbest way is what bothers me, they all could've made it back alive. However, I think it wouldn't make sense if someone didn't die... in every series there is always a main character that dies. Even though Matthias was my favorite character; he was the safest choice.


Iva_hahah I can totally feel your anger, but I wanted to ask you something about the Darkling...But first, have you read King of scars yet?
Has anyone? hahahh


message 40: by Cid (last edited Jul 13, 2019 03:25PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid Iva_hahah wrote: "I can totally feel your anger, but I wanted to ask you something about the Darkling...But first, have you read King of scars yet?
Has anyone? hahahh"

yep, I didn't comment anything not to spoil anyone but OMF king of scars is full of kinky fanservice/aka shades off gray?x,x & totally lack imagination for villain?x,x facepalm rolll roll & I wont Even Start how Nina part is pointless?x,x roll


Iva_hahah Cid wrote: "Iva_hahah wrote: "I can totally feel your anger, but I wanted to ask you something about the Darkling...But first, have you read King of scars yet?
Has anyone? hahahh"
yep, I didn't comment anythin..."


I think that this book wasn't so important for itself, I believe that she is building the world for something really really big
I mean.... 4 things are just floating in the air and they make no sense (view spoiler)
There has to be a book that connects them all😥


message 42: by Cid (last edited Jul 16, 2019 01:28PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid yep, it's Book 2!;) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
oh, yeah grishaverse is interesting to explore we got ravka in 1st 3books & kerch is crows duology!:)
so King Nik 1st book is North?:)
maybe next will be that evil grisha & south nation we forgot(shu?;)

but honestly whatever L is *building here it can't be worth Nina suffering!x,x AND THAT *SPOILER lack of imagination!x.x facepalm unless,, it was her plan All along?x,x why else leaving Nik in scars n all?x,x oh L you evil mastermind!xD lol


HYK_Chuu to be honest, it was a love triangle/ square, throughout the book they had to eliminate the love interests so that only person gets the girl. Also the Darkling is really creepy don't you think?


message 44: by Cid (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cid meh, *eye roll*reminds me Sephiroth from ff7 why can't the man be left rip!x,x facepalm lol


Julianna Old thread, but as I am late to the party and have just finished the book, I needed to find a place to cope with this unfortunate plot twist in the book.

For those saying that someone had to die, yeah I can understand that. Someone had to die and Matthias's death was poetic in a very dark way, BUT I don't think it was fair that it was him. Killing him felt like the easy way out on choosing who had to die, it couldn't be someone the readers loved more like let's say, Kaz. I know I am biased, and that's a fair point to make against me, but I still believe there could have been more to Matthias's character growth and arc, he had so much potential and it felt like a waste. We got to see his big steps of changing his engrained hate, his desire to want to make a new future with a better purpose this time with Nina. His belief that he and Nina could change the world side by side, but we don't get that. I think that would have been more compelling of a story for his character than death. Seeing him continue to grow and face the struggles of helping Nina's cause while continuing to be a traitor to his people.

The book kept mentioning him thinking of his 'future' and all so him dying felt like a waste. Unless the author has some plan for Nina's development for her character or even her going off to the 'dark side', it just didn't make sense to me.

I'd love to keep my delusions where someday in the future Leigh could possibly give Matthias and Nina some sort of happy ending in some way, but I won't hold my breath. Usually, I'm not this shaken up about character deaths but Matthias's death broke me. I think after all the things he went through, of all the change he went through, he deserved a happy ending with Nina.


Stephanie Julianna wrote: "Old thread, but as I am late to the party and have just finished the book, I needed to find a place to cope with this unfortunate plot twist in the book.

For those saying that someone had to die, ..."


I feel the same way. No one needed to die in the crew and his death just came out of the left field. It was senseless and uncalled for. In the end I knew he would have a hard time trying to balance his morals with that of the Crows and even Nina, but it was do-able. He and Nina could have thrived and saved lives. He didn't have to die. I'm still pissed at his death and it's been years lol.


message 47: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Thanks to all the people that supported my post.
I don’t like it when people justify death 💀, because to me this didn’t just happen in a book, this duology was my life for a while and it still hurts to think that this really happened.
Thanks for all those awesome people that left supporting comments you know who you guys are.


Julianna Stephanie wrote: "Julianna wrote: "Old thread, but as I am late to the party and have just finished the book, I needed to find a place to cope with this unfortunate plot twist in the book.

For those saying that som..."


Stephanie, see now that point would have made a great struggle for his character development that would have been fantastic to read. Honorable Matthias also becoming a criminal and a crow, just another reason on how much more potential Matthias had as a character. And yes Nina and Matthias saving both the druskelle and the grisha from themselves, they really would have changed the world like he wanted to!
Petty of me, but I am most definitely going to be upset about this forever probably lol. He was more than just a favorite character, he was a damn good one. This duology will always be my favorite but I'll always be bitter about this at the same time.


Julianna Belle wrote: "Thanks to all the people that supported my post.
I don’t like it when people justify death 💀, because to me this didn’t just happen in a book, this duology was my life for a while and it still hurt..."


I feel exactly the same as you do, it's both wonderful and sad how fiction can affect our lives. You read it so many years ago and it still hurts, it means that Matthias was and is a really fantastic character. I'm sure I'll read all of Leigh's books but this duology will always follow my heart with a bittersweet tug. And I think I'll always miss Matthias as well.


message 50: by Belle (new) - added it

Belle Same, her books really tugged at my heart strings
Both of my love interests died in her books
Like I mean why me 😂 ☹️ 😭


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