Harry Potter and the Cursed Child: Parts One and Two (Harry Potter, #8) Harry Potter and the Cursed Child discussion


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The Canon Debate [SPOILERS]

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Maria So I just finished reading Cursed Child and though I absolutely adored it, it is definitely very different from the standard seven book series we've known all these years. Although J.K. Rowling herself has stated that the series is canon, what do you all think? I don't want this book to influence the way I read the series from now on yet at the same time I want to respect J.K. Rowling's decision to make it canon.

I think I see Cursed Child in two different ways. I sometimes see it with a frame of mind that it is indeed canon and that the story does not stop at book seven, and I also see it with a frame of mind that the books stop at book seven and anything else that happens afterwards is up for interpretation.

The reasons I have trouble seeing Cursed Child as canon comes down to four main reasons and they are:

(view spoiler)

Although these points don't make me dislike Cursed Child (and I find it important to point out that I did indeed LOVE Cursed Child), they change my original view on the series too much.

What do you all think? I’d love to know your opinions and your advice on how to deal with this canon situation.


Julia No, this is hands-down NOT canon! I don't believe a word of what happened. There was just no rhyme or reason why anything that happened did happen. Why is Albus in Slytherin? Who knows? Why would the authors decide to bring Cedric back? I haven't a clue! WHY DID I SPEND $24.99 ON THIS BOOK? That, detective, is the right question! Because J.K. Rowling is the ultimate master of the Imperius curse, leading all of us to do her bidding.


Nicola Lloyd I like to think of this as a separate interpretation, and certainly not canon. I found the characters didn't resemble the ones from the books at all and there were so many points in the plot that I couldn't suspend my disbelief for.

(view spoiler)

Personally, I feel the canon stops at 'Nineteen Years Later' and this lets us have a bit of nostalgic fun :)


message 4: by T.D. (last edited Aug 02, 2016 08:13PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

T.D. Edwards I'm not sure how well this fits into cannon either. (view spoiler)

I also found the characters feeling too flat rather than multi-dimensional like we are used to reading them. But I feel this is partially because of the format this is written in. The "dialogue" doesn't come to life as it would in a novel. However, I imagine it translate much better on stage, and I imagine the personalities probably show much more on stage as well.

I would have much preferred a novel format, but I guess we have to take what we can get.


Maria I have a theory about the Voldemort having a daughter issue.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, time turners run using the "loop" theory, meaning that the past, present, and future is set in stone, and going back in time caused those events to happen. For example, when Harry sees his dad conjure the patronus, it was him the whole time. By going back in time they didn't change the past, but rather caused it to happen. Even though present day Harry hadn't reached the point in time where Hermione uses the time turner, he was still there. However, in Cursed Child, time turners run on the butterfly effect, meaning that when travelling in time you can make tiny changes to the past that will affect the future.

This means that when we read Goblet of Fire, in that period of time, Albus and Scorpius will not be there because Cursed Child hasn't happened yet, and Albus and Scorpius haven't travelled back in time yet.

Isn't it strange in Deathly Hallows that Voldemort and the Death Eaters are fighting so viciously for their side to win? Wouldn't they know that they had a backup plan in Delphi being able to eventually bring back Voldemort?

The way I see it is that in the time frame of when Deathly Hallows happened, Voldemort and Bellatrix had not yet had a child. I think that sometime between the end of Deathly Hallows and the beginning of Cursed Child, someone found out about the new prophecy, told a Death Eater who then travelled back in time to around the time of Half-Blood Prince and told Rodolphus Lestrange who then informed Voldemort.

So when we read Deathly Hallows, in that reality and that time frame that we see, Voldemort does not have a child yet, and we never see the alternate reality in which he does, which eventually leads into the reality of Cursed Child.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure if there are any holes in my theory but it works for me!


T.D. Edwards Maria wrote: "I have a theory about the Voldemort having a daughter issue.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, time turners run using the "loop" theory, meaning that the past, present, and future is set in stone, and going..."


I think I see what you're saying. Basically, because of the way "Cursed Child" ended, Voldemort never really had a daughter. Delphi was part of an alternate reality that ultimately never happened because they traveled back in time and set things back to the previous course of actions that we know to have happened in the previous HP books.

Looking at it that way, the majority of "Cursed Child" actually happens in an alternate reality, right up until the end when they travel back to set things back on the right track.

I actually like this theory. It even helps put a spin on the characters themselves. I so often felt that Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny's characters felt like pale shadows of who they were in the previous books. While I attributed this to the play format, maybe it is because we were seeing an alternate reality version of them right from the start...

Interesting.


Stacy I don't think this play can be canon. One thing that convinced me of that, but I haven't seen anyone else mention: (view spoiler)


Chasity Stacy wrote: "I don't think this play can be canon. One thing that convinced me of that, but I haven't seen anyone else mention: [spoilers removed]"

I made mention of this as well. I was confused about it. However, during the series there were issues about the Fidelius Charm that J.K. would come back and try to clarify so I just let it go. It did take me a few minutes to willfully suspend my disbelief, though.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Maria wrote: "So I just finished reading Cursed Child and though I absolutely adored it, it is definitely very different from the standard seven book series we've known all these years. Although J.K. Rowling her..."

I agreed with EVERYTHING you said. The format at times was confusing but it also made a the plot easier to understand.


Chasity Maria wrote: "I have a theory about the Voldemort having a daughter issue.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, time turners run using the "loop" theory, meaning that the past, present, and future is set in stone, and going..."


That sounds bloody genius! I'm totally from the US but it just felt right saying it that way. I think my mind is blown. I mean you have made so much sense. I'm sure someone will try to poke holes in your theory, and there may be one, but so far it sounds good to me. I feel like I need hunting season to hurry up so I can send my son and husband away for the weekend and have a girl's night with pizza and ice cream to discuss this idea more in depth. One must always have nutritious snacks when working through such complicated matters of wizardry. Oh, and twizzlers...we must have twizzlers.


Sarah Julia wrote: "Why is Albus in Slytherin? Who knows? Why would t..."

My take on it is that he chose not to ask the sorting hat not to put him there because he had already become friends with Scorpius.


Maria T.D. wrote: "Maria wrote: "I have a theory about the Voldemort having a daughter issue.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, time turners run using the "loop" theory, meaning that the past, present, and future is set in st..."


Yes that is sort of what I'm saying, but I do believe that the events of Cursed Child are endgame. However, I agree that the events of books 1-7 take place in a different reality than Cursed Child because somewhere between the end of Deathly Hallows and the beginning of Cursed Child, someone travelled back in time to tell Rodolphus Lestrange about the new prophecy and hence, created a new reality that became what we know as Cursed Child.

Bellatrix having a baby just doesn't fit into the plot of Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows as we know it, which leads me to believe that it fits into an alternate reality that we don't get to see until Cursed Child.


Maria Fiona wrote: "Maria wrote: "So I just finished reading Cursed Child and though I absolutely adored it, it is definitely very different from the standard seven book series we've known all these years. Although J...."

Thank-you :)


Maria Chasity wrote: "Maria wrote: "I have a theory about the Voldemort having a daughter issue.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, time turners run using the "loop" theory, meaning that the past, present, and future is set in st..."


Thank you! And "bloody genius" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe anything Harry Potter related even if you're not from the UK :)


message 15: by Richard (new)

Richard My opinion is the same as Colonel Kurtz in Apocylse Now:
“Anything approaching the change that came over his features I have never seen before, and hope never to see again. He cried in a whisper at some image, at some vision—he cried out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath: “‘The horror! The horror!”


ella Can someone please tell me what canon means? I've never know and people are always using the word for this book...


Stacy Here is the definition per Wikipedia: "In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in an individual universe of that story. It is often contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction."

Canon means it actually happened in the book. For instance, some people thought Harry and Hermione should have ended up together, but it's not canon because that's not what happened in the book.


message 18: by Ruby (last edited Aug 05, 2016 03:12PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Ruby Maria,

I do believe that what you've said makes sense- a lot of sense. Knowing that JK didn't mean for things to happen that way when she wrote the series sort of negates any sense it might make for me. It's great that you've found a sci-fi-ish way for the ridiculousness of the plot problems to make sense! Makes me feel better.

And Stacy, you're absolutely right about the Fidelius charm. Not that CC was flawless, but that is a major, major flaw. There's way they could have seen.

(view spoiler)

So it's pretty much Back to the Future now- ridikulus!
Okay, yeah. In other words, I view this script as separate from the series- more of an afterthought.


message 19: by T.D. (new) - rated it 4 stars

T.D. Edwards Ruby wrote: "Maria,

I do believe that what you've said makes sense- a lot of sense. Knowing that JK didn't mean for things to happen that way when she wrote the series sort of negates any sense it might make f..."


(view spoiler)


Paula Vince This is a great discussion to read.

I like Maria's time turner theory regarding the matter of Voldemort's daughter. Using that frame of reference, Voldemort would have just used Bellatrix to conceive Delphi for his own desperate, selfish purposes, and she would have totally gone along with the plan being Bellatrix (we all know how she felt about Voldy). Love had nothing whatsoever to do with it. He saw a need to preserve part of himself and took it.

As for the matter of Rose Granger-Weasley being so mean, she might still come around. As it now stands, Scorpius could do far better. She comes across as the sort of kid who everything has always come easy for, more smug than her mother ever was, and sort of shallow too, relying on appearances and judging a boy before she even gets to know him. This could all easily change, though. She's still young, and an attitude readjustment is quite possible.

Overall, I tend to think of it as part of the canon for the main reason that JKR herself has endorsed it as such. We have no choice but to accept that :) For that reason, I'm glad that a lot of what happened in the story gelled with me.


message 21: by Richard (new)

Richard Ella wrote: "Can someone please tell me what canon means? I've never know and people are always using the word for this book..."
6. any officially recognized set of sacred books.


message 22: by Ruby (new) - rated it 2 stars

Ruby I have no problem accepting that all the stuff in this...script...is canon. My problem is that JK Rowling herself okay-ed it. It damages a lot of things from the books, is completely different from her style, and I actually feel less closure than at the end of Nineteen Years Later.

I know listing all the kids names seemed like a non-satisfying end to the series, but I really liked the fact that we didn't know.

We didn't know what happened to Albus Severus: Gryffindor? Slytherin? Rebel? We didn't know, and I really liked that because it made me realize that it doesn't matter at all; what matters is that he and all the new generation of wizards are completely free to do and be whatever they want because Moldy Voldyman is gone! 'All was well'!

Knowing Rose's personality probably contributed to this non-closure. I thought she was going to be a second Hermione.


message 23: by Ira (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ira About the fidelious charm: Harry Potter lived at the house as a one year old. So I take as he knew the Secret, and with Peters death, he became one of the Secret keepers.....


Stacy The fidelius charm was no longer in place when Peter died, so there were no secret keepers at that point.


ᏒIᎪ Paula wrote: "This is a great discussion to read.

I like Maria's time turner theory regarding the matter of Voldemort's daughter. Using that frame of reference, Voldemort would have just used Bellatrix to conce..."


I know a lot of people shipped Rose and Scorpius but I always liked the idea of Harry and Draco's kids getting married so I ship Lily and Scorpius. I feel like this book is enough proof that the Scorpius-Rose thing doesn't work.


Clarke Daniels Really I can't accept most of this as canon. There are just so many plot holes (that technically can be explained away but they shouldn't have been there in the first place) that I couldn't properly enjoy it. The characters felt really OoC and the plot was just really lackluster. I imagine it's much better as a play and I think I'd appreciate it much more if I could see it, but that's not something I can afford. The only things I really enjoyed was Scorpius and Draco's relationship and the mass influx of Albus/Scorpius content everywhere (because they were really really gay the way it was written).


message 27: by C.A. (new) - rated it 1 star

C.A. I know J.K. Rowling claimed it was canon, but I think that was just so that people would buy the book to be honest. She knows deep down that this would be a disgrace to the Harry Potter Universe, the complex world she put so much thought into creating, for this hodgepodge of concepts and one-liners play.

And this was "co-written" with Jack Thorne and John Tiffany, but I'm pretty sure it was moreso ghost written. This was NOT the type of work that would come from JKR.


Julia Just something interesting to note about it being canon or not... despite being a play first, it was published as a book, albeit just a hard-cover (and now also soft-cover) version of the script. Interestingly though, a quick Google search of "Harry Potter" indicates "Number of books: 7"

It doesn't say 7 + 1 debatable screenplay. It just says 7.


Julia And remember these discussions?

http://lifestyle.one/heat/entertainme...

"It’s not a new novel – and the author is insisting it’s not a sequel exactly – but Harry Potter And The Cursed Child will open as a play in London in 2016."

NOT a sequel! I think of it as an alternative... what if all *wasn't* well, and nothing that the previous books ever laid out (one month to brew Polyjuice Potion, Voldemort never mentioning wanting an heir, Hermione being a strong independent woman and not ending up pathetic and alone if she didn't marry Ron, etc. etc.) counted for anything??


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