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Group Reads > Powder and Patch Group Read July 2016 Chapters 1-10

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Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Hi Everyone.

So Powder & Patch aka The Transformation of Phillip Jettan.

This thread is the same as usual no spoilers or use spoiler tags. (We don't want to spoil a first read for anyone)

Soooo...

Is this anyones first read?

How many times have you read it?

What format are you using this time?

Enjoy!


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
This is one of the ones I have read countless times - all a long time ago.

I'm so glad that my one is already on Goodreads - I'd hate to have to scan my battered old Pan!

Here it is Powder and Patch by Georgette Heyer


message 3: by Louise Sparrow (new)

Louise Sparrow (louisex) | 459 comments I'll be listening to the audio book, though possibly not for a few days as I'm already halfway through another.

I've read it twice I think, it's never been one of my favourites.


message 4: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie Scuitto | 261 comments I have a copy but haven't read it for years -- not one of my favorites. May not bother but will enjoy seeing all the comments!


message 5: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Powder and Patch takes place around 1753, before These Old Shades. The former has tight clothes similar to what we read about in Regency books, and the latter has loose clothes with voluminous pockets, that I associate with earlier times.

Is this a difference between France and England? Or what am I missing here?


message 6: by Susan in NC (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments This is my first time reading, and I was all set to read the Kindle version as it was available on Scribd, but I'm spending summer in Illinois visiting family and went to the lovely local library and voila - two shelves full of sparkling new Heyers, all of her mysteries and several of her romances, including this one! Bliss! (I appreciate the convenience and portability of ebooks and am coming to enjoy audiobooks on long trips when I have a knitting project in hand, but I always prefer a physical book if possible). I am reading the beautiful Sourcebooks paperback.


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1201 comments Susan in NC wrote: "This is my first time reading, and I was all set to read the Kindle version as it was available on Scribd, but I'm spending summer in Illinois visiting family and went to the lovely local library a..."

What a fabulous find Susan! I am so envious - my library does not have a single Georgette Heyer in it!! As a teenager, I would have been lost without our local library since I could not afford to buy many books then. The library was my passport to reading!
Like you, I still prefer the feel of a real book in my hands, but my iPad holds so many ebooks it is a godsend! This GH is not one of my favourites and in fact (dare I say it? ) perhaps amongst my least favourites. However, I am looking forward to the comments!


message 8: by Susan in NC (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments I felt the same way about the library when I was a little girl and teenager - with a large, busy family the library was a quiet refuge full of all the books I could want to read - free! Ah, it was bliss, wasn't it?! I still love checking out a new library - but can't get used to how noisy libraries have become. I know they have to adapt to bring in the increasingly non-reading public, but I always want to say, "ssh, keep it down a bit!"


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1201 comments Susan in NC wrote: "I felt the same way about the library when I was a little girl and teenager - with a large, busy family the library was a quiet refuge full of all the books I could want to read - free! Ah, it was ..."

Certainly when I was young, our library was an incredibly silent place: - I could spend ages, curled up on a step or window ledge - reading, and no one ever bothered me or said - "go home". I never wanted to talk as I was just lost in my book! Different times I guess!


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Certainly when I was young, our library was an incredibly silent place: -

*smug* Our library is still a very quiet place. Of course nowadays it's because people are glued to their or the library's screens!

I forgot to mention - I've always been all over the place with this book & earlier readings I would have had it at about 3.5-4*.

Anyone know how to pronounce Cleone's name?


message 11: by Teresa (new)

Teresa | 1810 comments I've only read this book once a long time ago so quite looking forward to it. Haven't got round to it just yet though. When I was young I lived out in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't a library within an asses roar of us. It was hard being a book lover then. No money around either so I was jealously hoarding any penny I got to buy books whenever I got into town.


message 12: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Anyone know how to pronounce Cleone's name?"

Searching the Internet, I see multiple pronunciations listed. Since name pronunciations can vary between people with the same name, I have decided that she could use the choice I like: Cle-own-ee


message 13: by Teresa (new)

Teresa | 1810 comments That's how I read it too Howard.


message 14: by Susan in NC (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "I felt the same way about the library when I was a little girl and teenager - with a large, busy family the library was a quiet refuge full of all the books I could want to read..."

So true - good times, good times! ;) it's mainly the little ones at the library, they have their own section set up like a play place, and naturally they start playing and get loud!


message 15: by Susan in NC (last edited Jul 01, 2016 03:26PM) (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments Teresa wrote: "I've only read this book once a long time ago so quite looking forward to it. Haven't got round to it just yet though. When I was young I lived out in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't a library ..."

"Within an asses roar"! LOL! But I think that makes your brother's lovely book gifts to you that much sweeter, he knew how much you wanted books as a girl and now he can give them to you.

I agree with Howard and Teresa, I assumed "Clee - own - ee" also.


message 16: by Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (last edited Jul 01, 2016 05:29PM) (new)

Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
When I was young (since I had no idea!) I pronounced it Clee-oan. Recent times I've gone for Clee-oh-nee.

Edit; This site agrees with me! ;)

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronoun...


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1201 comments Teresa wrote: "I've only read this book once a long time ago so quite looking forward to it. Haven't got round to it just yet though. When I was young I lived out in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't a library ..."

I don"t know how I would have managed without our library, which was very close to us. I visited every couple of days! Books were a precious luxury back then. Like you, I saved up my pocket money to buy paperbacks. No way could I have afforded hardbacks.
Carol, I have always thought the pronunciation was Clee-oh-nee too! Same as Leonie in TOS.


message 18: by Teresa (new)

Teresa | 1810 comments OK I'm on Chapter eight and so far I'm really enjoying it. This book flies along. We have only a brief outline of Cleone but already know what she's like from that. Philip comes across as quite childish so it'll be interesting to see if he'll be transformed. I think this is going to be a book about human nature.


message 19: by Susan in NC (last edited Jul 02, 2016 08:33AM) (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments Teresa wrote: "OK I'm on Chapter eight and so far I'm really enjoying it. This book flies along. We have only a brief outline of Cleone but already know what she's like from that. Philip comes across as quite chi..."

Agreed - it's fast-moving and fun, I think - but my heart goes out to Philip, who reminds me a great deal of my son, so earnest, kind of an old soul - and right now, takes himself far too seriously and thus likely to be easily hurt! ; )

I hope he can do what he must to win his Cleone, without giving up his essentially good self, and stop feeling sorry for himself and thinking she and his father don't love him just because they think he could use some polishing around the rough edges...we shall see!


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Howard wrote: "Powder and Patch takes place around 1753, before These Old Shades. The former has tight clothes similar to what we read about in Regency books, and the latter has loose clothes with voluminous pock..."

Hi Howard.

TBM, TOS & Powder & Patch take place in roughly the same time period. P&P has the most detailed description of men's clothes.

http://www.georgette-heyer.com/chron....


message 21: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Howard wrote: "Powder and Patch takes place around 1753, before These Old Shades. The former has tight clothes similar to what we read about in Regency books, and the latter has loose clothes with ..."
That site is where I got the dates. These Old Shades has pockets that could hold books. I don't see that in Powder and Patch.


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Howard wrote: "These Old Shades has pockets that could hold books. I don't see that in Powder and Patch.

Now I thought it was Devil's Cub where they had the capacious pockets. But I could be wrong. Anyone got a page number for this?


message 23: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Howard wrote: "These Old Shades has pockets that could hold books. I don't see that in Powder and Patch.

Now I thought it was Devil's Cub where they had the capacious pockets. But I could be wron..."


That's a generation later. Didn't clothes get tighter for the regency period?


message 24: by Kim (new)

Kim Kaso | 511 comments Devil's Cub, as I was informed some time ago, is still not technically Regency.


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Howard wrote: " That's a generation later. Didn't clothes get tighter for the regency period?

Yup.that was my point. :)

With the three earlier Georgians I guess even a different year could have slightly different styles though.

Even when I google I am getting Regency men's clothes. I'll just have a quick look in The Really Useful Stuff folder & see if any of our other members have put up some useful links.


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Had a look (in Really useful stuff)& most of the links are Regency.

I found this article which seems to give the best idea.

http://world4.eu/louis-xv-rococo-fash...

I'll put it in The Really Useful Stuff folder.


message 27: by Kim (new)

Kim Kaso | 511 comments Regency era was 1811-1820. Devil's Cub was set in 1780, I think. Styles change vastly within a decade, look at the 50s & 60s, let alone 30 or 40 years


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Sorry to disappear - my internet went down & I decided to go for a walk rather than fix it!

I'll put this link for the time periods here as well

http://www.georgette-heyer.com/chron....

& here's another link for clothing. Pictures better for women's clothing than men's though.

https://historyofeuropeanfashion.word...


message 29: by Critterbee❇ (new)

Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2724 comments Mod
Third time reading, on the kindle this time.


message 30: by Hana (new)

Hana | 652 comments I'm just getting started tonight! Thanks for those links for the period detail, Carol


message 31: by Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (last edited Jul 03, 2016 04:20PM) (new)

Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Welcome one & all! This is a very short book so it won't be hard to catch up!


message 32: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Howard wrote: "Powder and Patch takes place around 1753, before These Old Shades. The former has tight clothes similar to what we read about in Regency books, and the latter has loose clothes with voluminous pock..."

In pictures of fashions from around this period, gentlemen generally seem to be wearing coats which seem to fit quite closely around the shoulders, but with flared skirts, breeches not as tight as they became later on. Ladies have their tops held in tightly with corsets, but wide skirts. Clothing altogether more bulky than it became at the end of the 18th century.


message 33: by Louise (new)

Louise Culmer Kim wrote: "Regency era was 1811-1820. Devil's Cub was set in 1780, I think. Styles change vastly within a decade, look at the 50s & 60s, let alone 30 or 40 years"

the french revolution brought about dramatic changes in fashion, dress for gentlemen in particular became much plainer and simpler in the last decade of the 18th century.


message 34: by Susan in NC (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments Louise wrote: "Kim wrote: "Regency era was 1811-1820. Devil's Cub was set in 1780, I think. Styles change vastly within a decade, look at the 50s & 60s, let alone 30 or 40 years"

the french revolution brought ab..."


Yes, I know I've read in historical fiction and mysteries from the period that gentlemen in London became very careful about allowing lace to show at their cuffs and collars when they were moving through less savory areas of town, so they didn't arouse anger and attacks from the mob!


message 35: by Louise Sparrow (new)

Louise Sparrow (louisex) | 459 comments I'm finally able to start this!

Part of the reason I didn't like it before, and am finding it just the same this time is that I don't admire the fashion and much prefer the Philip at the beginning of the novel.


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Louise Sparrow wrote: "I'm finally able to start this!

Part of the reason I didn't like it before, and am finding it just the same this time is that I don't admire the fashion and much prefer the Philip at the beginning..."


I sort of mentally don't have the heroes wearing makeup or patches. & I think the clothes are beautiful.

Part of this is being a pre teen in the 60s as some mens clothes were inspired by them.

Look at Keith Moon in this 60s clip. Looks like Animal in Georgian gear!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BmkB...


message 37: by Louise Sparrow (new)

Louise Sparrow (louisex) | 459 comments Oh yes the clothes themselves are stunning, and I do think guys these days could make more of an effort, but I don't like wigs, powder, patches, and the simpering manners.

I am liking the book better this time, I just find it hard to agree with Cleone and Philip's father.


message 38: by Howard (last edited Jul 06, 2016 08:06PM) (new)

Howard Brazee Louise Sparrow wrote: "I am liking the book better this time, I just find it hard to agree with Cleone and Philip's father.
.."


Well, (view spoiler)


message 39: by Susan in NC (new)

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3661 comments Louise Sparrow wrote: "Oh yes the clothes themselves are stunning, and I do think guys these days could make more of an effort, but I don't like wigs, powder, patches, and the simpering manners.

I am liking the book bet..."


I felt the same, Louise - he seemed like such a decent young man, and was genuinely hurt that the two people he loved most basically told him he wasn't good enough in their eyes...I'd be hurt too!


message 40: by Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (last edited Jul 06, 2016 07:56PM) (new)

Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
Howard it took me a minute (or 10) to see it but on Goodreads [] doesn't work, you have to use <> for html.


Christmas Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4484 comments Mod
I guess I should use spoilers for this (view spoiler)


message 42: by Howard (new)

Howard Brazee Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Howard it took me a minute (or 10) to see it but on Goodreads [] doesn't work, you have to use for html."
I used to know that - but I had some cut and pasting from http://steamcommunity.com/comment/Ann... which used brackets


Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ | 361 comments First time read for me -- and I just finished it, in a couple of days. It's a very quick read. :) (view spoiler)


message 44: by Jenny (new)

Jenny H (jenny_norwich) | 767 comments Howard wrote: "...These Old Shades has pockets that could hold books..."

But don't forget books could be very small! Even smaller than in this
Fragonard picture


message 45: by Elza (last edited Jul 15, 2016 04:06AM) (new)

Elza (emr1) | 296 comments Louise Sparrow wrote: "I do think guys these days could make more of an effort, but I don't like wigs, powder, patches, and the simpering manners. "

I agree, and I sympathize with Philip. However, he is pretty hardheaded about his refusal to change anything at all for Cleone or his father. Cleone needs to grow up, but Philip needs to get over himself and lighten up a tad.

This may sound silly but they remind me a little bit of Sandy and Danny in "Grease" ~ somebody's got to make a change. LOL!

ETA this is my 2nd or 3rd reading -- not sure. It's been a long time since I read this first, and I didn't care for it much then -- "wigs, powder, patches, simpering manners," etc.


message 46: by Kim (new)

Kim Kaso | 511 comments I think this novel falls under the "be careful what you wish for" category; you want me to be "polished"? says Philip, I will give you polish. I must say, in general my preference in GH heroes is the Corinthian type, more simply dressed and athletic, but that was not the style during this era. The men were as colorful and painted as their female counterparts. It is never a good idea as a parent or love interest to try and change someone, it leads to resentment and rarely sticks. If Philip's mother were on the scene, she might have naturally smoothed the rough edges and civilized him a bit. But to have things happen so precipitously guarantees trouble to come.

I know I read all the Heyer books when I was in my teens & early 20s, but this is likely my first re-read of it. I apparently did not like it well enough to revisit it. I like it more than Cousin Kate, for example, but it is not an old favorite. That being said, most Heyer is better than a lot of other books.


message 47: by Jackie (new)

Jackie | 1385 comments well said, Kim, I agree with this. I have found the more I read Heyer books that are not my "favorites" (Cousin Kate, Powder and Patch) the more I like them - I get used to the parts I didn't like and have more appreciation for the rest.


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